Trump raises possibility of delaying November U.S. presidential election

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

25 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

'There is not valid reason why there needs to be vote-by-mail' - you mean apart from the worldwide pandemic that has already cost the US 155,000 lives and is not even close to being brought under control because of an incompetant POTUS?

I would say that's a pretty good reason.

Forgive me if I'm not shaking in my boots but what's playing out is only too obvious.

johnnybangkok · August 2, 2020

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Forgive me if I'm not shaking in my boots but what's playing out is only too obvious.

The simple truth is mail-in voting has been going on for decades with negligible cases of fraud. Trump himself has used it https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/31/trump-ballot-access-hollywood-2004-dons-take-ctn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/ so it is absolute hypocracy for him to say it's no good now.

What we also know is the GOP benefit massively from low voter turnout, and of course mail-in voting would ensure a much higher amount of voting.

Anyway, it's completely moot as mail-in voting is down to individual states and Trump has no say on whether they can or cannot initiate it.

pedro01 · August 2, 2020

11 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

who cares how old somebody is if they are capable of guiding the country. We must be doing something right because everybody else cares so much about what we do

Lots of people were interested in the fall of Rome too.

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

5 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

The simple truth is mail-in voting has been going on for decades with negligible cases of fraud. Trump himself has used it https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/31/trump-ballot-access-hollywood-2004-dons-take-ctn-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/this-week-in-politics/ so it is absolute hypocracy for him to say it's no good now.

What we also know is the GOP benefit massively from low voter turnout, and of course mail-in voting would ensure a much higher amount of voting.

Anyway, it's completely moot as mail-in voting is down to individual states and Trump has no say on whether they can or cannot initiate it.

I'll stand firm and aver that the Dems aren't pushing for mail-in-voting for "the people." They have other reasons and the pandemic is simply a convenient cover story. Do you really believe what comes out of a politician's mouth? LOL These people are clever. Ever hear of political strategies? They'll stop at nothing to get Trump out.

stevenl · August 2, 2020

16 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll stand firm and aver that the Dems aren't pushing for mail-in-voting for "the people." They have other reasons and the pandemic is simply a convenient cover story. Do you really believe what comes out of a politician's mouth? LOL These people are clever. Ever hear of political strategies? They'll stop at nothing to get Trump out.

Yes, they'll even go as far as getting as much votes in from eligible voters. How dare they.

Tie Dye Samurai · August 2, 2020

32 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I think Trump brought the question up because he knew that all h3ll would break loose and the libs would be screaming bloody murder, coming up with all the reasons why it can't be done. Come November he'll be using that when the Dems try to delay the vote count by weeks or months.

BTW, does anyone know what happens if there's a huge delay? Congress would choose an interim president. You don't think the Dems are aware of the rules? But don't you worry, the Dems are doing this for "the people." My a$$.

Trump brought the question up because he wanted to distract from the 33% dump the economy took, the fact the virus is raging out of control like a California Forest Fire and most importantly that he needs as small of a turn out for the election as possible. Not because he cares about election "integrity" because if he cared about that so much they would be ramming through election security measures through the senate...which they DO NOT...(integrity would be showing your taxes by the way...lol)

I always find it interesting that it is just assumed by MAGA that there would be voter fraud on the liberal side of the fence because Donald Trump and his supporters (foreign and domestic) are so above board and brimming with integrity. (The guy that actually goes to courts to claim that as president he is immune from any criminal action whatsoever because he is POTUS) It is not rocket science. Religious groups such as the Mormons in the 19th century were told they could not vote and it started brawls at the polls, Jim Crow laws were aimed directly at keeping the blacks from voting so that their voice could not be heard. In the 21st century technology has been used or failed to be used to suppress voting. The measures are always the same....to keep the popular vote out and to make it as hard as possible for everybody to be able to have their voice heard. The more people that vote, the harder it is for the people already in power to try to keep power. Trump is setting the table to not accept the results of the election no matter what happens....and MAGA and the rest of us all know it. Unless by some MAGA MIRACLE he actually wins...then it should be business as usual and the "dems" should sit down and shut up, the election was fair and just accept that democracy has spoken once again....right?

The bottom line...The "dems" have no reason to delay a vote or count, the "dems" would like the election to happen as quickly as possible. If anything the "dems" would want the election date to be MOVED UP so that there would be MORE time to count votes....Trump wants as small a voter turnout as possible because the more people that vote, the less chance he has to win. He already lost the popular vote last time, he was able to weave the right combination of states together to win the electoral college....and fair play to him, those were and are the rules and he got it done. But he is running out of time and tactics and he knows it. He knows the easier it is to vote, the more people that think his presidency is a DUMPSTER FIRE OF THE HIGHEST MAGNITUDE will get to have their voices heard. At the end of the day always remember...nothing is more important to Trump than Donald Trump.

GinBoy2 · August 2, 2020

In my mind this is one of the more bizarre political discussions ever.

They 'combatants' trade the words 'mail in' and 'absentee' like they were different entities, they are really not.

There are States that require you to give a reason why you can't attend a polling station, then there are the 'no excuse States, where you just submit the application and you are an absentee voter, in other words it's a mail in ballot!.

I live in South Dakota, redder than red and I have an absentee ballot. Never any questions about voter fraud here. Wonder Why?

Here's how it breaks down by State:

Here's the link to the source

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/absentee-and-early-voting.aspx

Edited August 2, 2020 by GinBoy2

heybruce · August 2, 2020

32 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Blah, blah, blah. I've heard it all before and I think your analyses and rationales are bogus and based on a whole lotta bias.

Point still is that there's no valid reason for mail-in-voting. Going to the polls is no more dangerous than going to the store to buy food. No difference. People are allowed to go buy hemp and that's somehow different than going to the polls to vote? So if there's no difference then why the push for mail-in-voting? Somebody sees an advantage. I'm not as naive. Nowhere close. Look beyond your nose.

Blah, blah, blah, you've given no valid reason why states should not protect their citizens from exposure to Covid 19 by encouraging vote by mail.

Going to polls on a specific day with specific timelines (a work day and during working hours for most Americans), especially in an election with a number of poll stations closed and a number of poll workers (usually dominated by senior citizens) not showing up, will lead to long lines and impossible challenges to maintaining social distance. If you go to the supermarket and don't like the looks of the crowds, you can go back another time or another day

Vote by mail is safe, easy, and proven. The only problem is some states are not adequately preparing for a surge of mail in ballots, and Trump is hobbling the postal service to slow down mail delivery. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/14/postal-service-trump-dejoy-delay-mail/. The ballot count may not be finished on election day. However, this doesn't matter:

"According to the Federal Election Commission, states have until December 8 to report results. The state electors (the system established by Article II of the Constitution) then meet on December 14 to cast their votes. The new Congress meets on January 6 to certify them." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-happens-if-the-president-doesnt-accept-the-election-results/

The states have until December 8 to certify election results. Trump may insist on immediate results, if they favor him, but he can't change that. If the states need a few extra days to count mail in ballots, they can take them.

BTW: Florida, the largest of the swing states, has a Republican government that has spent years making vote by mail easy, especially for (usually conservative) senior citizens. If Trump somehow manages to de-legitimize mail in voting and let the younger, more liberal, more fearless Florida voters determine who gets the states electoral votes, Trump loses.

As much as I want Trump to lose, I don't want him to lose by preventing people from voting. I place democracy over party, unlike some people.

Edited August 2, 2020 by heybruce

Bluespunk · August 2, 2020

More bad news for trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/01/lincoln-project-donald-trump-republicans-campaign-ads?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Running a campaign deliberately designed to make him react and tweet. It worked.

They know how to push his buttons and are playing him like a violin

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

20 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Blah, blah, blah, you've given no valid reason why states should not protect their citizens from exposure to Covid 19 by encouraging vote by mail.

Going to polls on a specific day with specific timelines (a work day and during working hours for most Americans), especially in an election with a number of poll stations closed and a number of poll workers (usually dominated by senior citizens) not showing up, will lead to long lines and impossible challenges to maintaining social distance. If you go to the supermarket and don't like the looks of the crowds, you can go back another time or another day

Vote by mail is safe, easy, and proven. The only problem is some states are not adequately preparing for a surge of mail in ballots, and Trump is hobbling the postal service to slow down mail delivery. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/14/postal-service-trump-dejoy-delay-mail/. The ballot count may not be finished on election day. However, this doesn't matter:

"According to the Federal Election Commission, states have until December 8 to report results. The state electors (the system established by Article II of the Constitution) then meet on December 14 to cast their votes. The new Congress meets on January 6 to certify them." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-happens-if-the-president-doesnt-accept-the-election-results/

The states have until December 8 to certify election results. Trump may insist on immediate results, if they favor him, but he can't change that. If the states need a few extra days to count mail in ballots, they can take them.

BTW: Florida, the largest of the swing states, has a Republican government that has spent years making vote by mail easy, especially for (usually conservative) senior citizens. If Trump somehow manages to de-legitimize mail in voting and let the younger, more liberal, more fearless Florida voters determine who gets the states electoral votes, Trump loses.

As much as I want Trump to lose, I don't want him to lose by preventing people from voting. I place democracy over party, unlike some people.

"Vote by mail is safe, easy, and proven."

You must not have watched the video from CBS News. LOL You guys are a riot.

GinBoy2 · August 2, 2020

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"Vote by mail is safe, easy, and proven."

You must not have watched the video from CBS News. LOL You guys are a riot.

I vote by mail here in South Dakota, you know that bastion of liberal extremism, never seems to be a problem here!

So I assume that every State, in your mind at least, that has mail in voting is subject to massive fraud, even if they vote Republican, as obviously mine does?

Clearly if we eliminated all those fraudulent mail in GOP votes, the Dem's would win!

Edited August 2, 2020 by GinBoy2

GroveHillWanderer · August 2, 2020

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll stand firm and aver that the Dems aren't pushing for mail-in-voting for "the people." They have other reasons and the pandemic is simply a convenient cover story. Do you really believe what comes out of a politician's mouth? LOL These people are clever. Ever hear of political strategies? They'll stop at nothing to get Trump out.

Except it's not only Dems who support mail-in voting. Some Republican-controlled states have 100% mail-in voting. In others, GOP leaders are firmly in favour of it.

GOP leaders in swing states are huge fans of voting by mail

Bluespunk · August 2, 2020

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yeah, I'm well aware that Dems and libs are convinced that Trump is thin-skinned. Heard it so many times. From the piece. "If Trump was truly tormented by the Reagan reference, . . . " Such melodramatic wordsmithing. LOL Go ahead and buy their product.

This is a republican run campaign.

melvinmelvin · August 2, 2020

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Blah, blah, blah. I've heard it all before and I think your analyses and rationales are bogus and based on a whole lotta bias.

Point still is that there's no valid reason for mail-in-voting. Going to the polls is no more dangerous than going to the store to buy food. No difference. People are allowed to go buy hemp and that's somehow different than going to the polls to vote? So if there's no difference then why the push for mail-in-voting? Somebody sees an advantage. I'm not as naive. Nowhere close. Look beyond your nose.

???

no reason for voting by mail? serious?

here are some;

voting by mail would probably yield higher participation in the election,

in most countries that is considered a + for democracy

very convenient for lazy people

very convenient for people having difficulties moving around

handy tool for keeping spread of corona virii down

very convenient for people short of time

GinBoy2 · August 2, 2020

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

???

no reason for voting by mail? serious?

here are some;

voting by mail would probably yield higher participation in the election,

in most countries that is considered a + for democracy

very convenient for lazy people

very convenient for people having difficulties moving around

handy tool for keeping spread of corona virii down

very convenient for people short of time

I've voted almost exclusively mail in, be it in California, or Thailand and now South Dakota for years

Apart from Thailand, the primary reason I'm not ashamed to say it was laziness.

Especially in California where the voter guide to propositions can look like a small novel, I just like to sit at my kitchen table read the information, mark the ballot and mail it off.

As for, it'll increase time for results, I'm skeptical about that. I think most people who do absentee voting mail their ballots back very early, I know I do

Edited August 2, 2020 by GinBoy2

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

???

no reason for voting by mail? serious?

here are some;

voting by mail would probably yield higher participation in the election,

in most countries that is considered a + for democracy

very convenient for lazy people

very convenient for people having difficulties moving around

handy tool for keeping spread of corona virii down

very convenient for people short of time

I'll reply to you and the other posters with similar comments. Personally, I don't have an issue with mail-in-voting and I'll agree with you that there are benefits. As long as it's secure, though. Call me cynical if you like but I'm highly distrustful of politicians when they're h3ll bent on pushing something through giving flimsy reasons for doing so. And using Covid as a reason is flimsy in my opinion. No one here has confronted my point that going to the polls is no different than going to buy groceries or hemp. Therefore their reasoning is suspect. It's well known that politicians have agendas much different than those they speak and I'm long past believing they're altruistic and have the "people" in their hearts. Not saying none exist that do.

It's fact that the Dems and libs (O.K., some Republicans, too) have been fixated on removing Trump from office since before he was sworn in. They tried with the Russia hoax, which is now being exposed for what it truly was (and I believe some people will burn for it). They tried with the Mueller probe, which failed and I believe will also be exposed as an utter sham. They tried with impeachment, which was another set-up (I know, I know . . . believe what you will, I don't care) and that failed. Does anyone truly believe that those wishing to depose Trump aren't ruthless and conniving? And even a bit of blood on their hands wouldn't prevent them from catching a good night's sleep.

No. This push for mail-in-voting stinks to me.

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

33 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Not sure that’s true, but not the point I was making.

They are baiting trump, he responds as expected and their funding goes up. Thus giving them the money to expand their campaign.

As expected? And what might that expectation be? Just simply that he responds at all? Or are they reading things into his responses . . . you know, making sh!t up and acting like it's r-e-a-l? If he responds it isn't necessarily indicative of anything, is it? You respond to my posts and sometimes I bait you. So would you consider your response to me likewise to Trump's response to their ad? As I said, you can always make sh!t up and say, "See, we triggered him and the Reagan reference really tormented him." Is that really true or are they making sh!t up? My advice is to look at what you're swallowing before you swallow.

As to the expansion of their campaign, hey, go right ahead. I ain't scared.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Tippaporn

GinBoy2 · August 2, 2020

26 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll reply to you and the other posters with similar comments. Personally, I don't have an issue with mail-in-voting and I'll agree with you that there are benefits. As long as it's secure, though. Call me cynical if you like but I'm highly distrustful of politicians when they're h3ll bent on pushing something through giving flimsy reasons for doing so. And using Covid as a reason is flimsy in my opinion. No one here has confronted my point that going to the polls is no different than going to buy groceries or hemp. Therefore their reasoning is suspect. It's well known that politicians have agendas much different than those they speak and I'm long past believing they're altruistic and have the "people" in their hearts. Not saying none exist that do.

It's fact that the Dems and libs (O.K., some Republicans, too) have been fixated on removing Trump from office since before he was sworn in. They tried with the Russia hoax, which is now being exposed for what it truly was (and I believe some people will burn for it). They tried with the Mueller probe, which failed and I believe will also be exposed as an utter sham. They tried with impeachment, which was another set-up (I know, I know . . . believe what you will, I don't care) and that failed. Does anyone truly believe that those wishing to depose Trump aren't ruthless and conniving? And even a bit of blood on their hands wouldn't prevent them from catching a good night's sleep.

No. This push for mail-in-voting stinks to me.

But the converse is also true.

Why are some people so dead against it?

It's been going on for years totally under the radar, and as I showed in my earlier post 34 States, red and blue do it.

To paraphrase Trump, 'this is total fake news'.

My GOP Governor or Secretary of State have no problem with it, nor did any of the previous GOP Governors of SD.

Why suddenly it's a 'problem' baffles me.

stevenl · August 2, 2020

30 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

<snip>Call me cynical if you like but I'm highly distrustful of politicians when they're h3ll bent on pushing something through giving flimsy reasons for doing so. <snip>

Hell bent against mail in voting and pushing against it. Much more than others pushing for it.

So good to hear that you distrust Trump now

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

But the converse is also true.

Why are some people so dead against it?

It's been going on for years totally under the radar, and as I showed in my earlier post 34 States, red and blue do it.

To paraphrase Trump, 'this is total fake news'.

My GOP Governor or Secretary of State have no problem with it, nor did any of the previous GOP Governors of SD.

Why suddenly it's a 'problem' baffles me.

I'm for it as long as it's secure. It's never been done before on a mass scale. First time around with anything is rarely without problems. True or no? Look no further than what happened at the Iowa primary. And here we aren't just talking about absentee ballots but mailing out ballots to everyone. It's well known that voter rolls in many states are bogus. When a state or county has more people on their voter rolls than the existing population, and they don't want to purge those voter rolls, you have to question. Don't you? It makes no reasonable sense not to purge them. It's only common sense that tells you things are not on the up and up.

So you can't blame a lot of people who question the security of mass ballots mailed to everyone and anyone. And aside from security why are Democratic politicians so adamant that it goes into effect? I'm not talking about the people being for it, I'm talking about the politicians. Do you trust them? I don't belong to any party and never have in my lifetime, nor will I ever. So I can't speak to the concept of "trusting your leaders" because I've never had any. Do you trust your leaders? I trust very, very few politicians and so I always ask myself what their real angle is.

I'm certain that if mail-in-ballots were ensured to be entirely secure you would have a difficult time finding anyone who would be against the idea.

GinBoy2 · August 2, 2020

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'm for it as long as it's secure. It's never been done before on a mass scale. First time around with anything is rarely without problems. True or no? Look no further than what happened at the Iowa primary. And here we aren't just talking about absentee ballots but mailing out ballots to everyone. It's well known that voter rolls in many states are bogus. When a state or county has more people on their voter rolls than the existing population, and they don't want to purge those voter rolls, you have to question. Don't you? It makes no reasonable sense not to purge them. It's only common sense that tells you things are not on the up and up.

So you can't blame a lot of people who question the security of mass ballots mailed to everyone and anyone. And aside from security why are Democratic politicians so adamant that it goes into effect? I'm not talking about the people being for it, I'm talking about the politicians. Do you trust them? I don't belong to any party and never have in my lifetime, nor will I ever. So I can't speak to the concept of "trusting your leaders" because I've never had any. Do you trust your leaders? I trust very, very few politicians and so I always ask myself what their real angle is.

I'm certain that if mail-in-ballots were ensured to be entirely secure you would have a difficult time finding anyone who would be against the idea.

But it's already on a mass scale, 34 out of 50 States do it, a few exclusively, and have for years.

What changed?

Absolutely nothing, except the ultra right media seem to have discovered a new boogie man.

I apply for the absentee ballot by mail along with a copy of my DL to prove I am eligible to vote, and thats it, and I think thats pretty common for most States that allow it.

The ID requirements are pretty comprehensive, so it's as safe as anything can be.

Here's the list of ID's from the SD application form.

Edited August 2, 2020 by GinBoy2

Chomper Higgot · August 2, 2020

56 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll reply to you and the other posters with similar comments. Personally, I don't have an issue with mail-in-voting and I'll agree with you that there are benefits. As long as it's secure, though. Call me cynical if you like but I'm highly distrustful of politicians when they're h3ll bent on pushing something through giving flimsy reasons for doing so. And using Covid as a reason is flimsy in my opinion. No one here has confronted my point that going to the polls is no different than going to buy groceries or hemp. Therefore their reasoning is suspect. It's well known that politicians have agendas much different than those they speak and I'm long past believing they're altruistic and have the "people" in their hearts. Not saying none exist that do.

It's fact that the Dems and libs (O.K., some Republicans, too) have been fixated on removing Trump from office since before he was sworn in. They tried with the Russia hoax, which is now being exposed for what it truly was (and I believe some people will burn for it). They tried with the Mueller probe, which failed and I believe will also be exposed as an utter sham. They tried with impeachment, which was another set-up (I know, I know . . . believe what you will, I don't care) and that failed. Does anyone truly believe that those wishing to depose Trump aren't ruthless and conniving? And even a bit of blood on their hands wouldn't prevent them from catching a good night's sleep.

No. This push for mail-in-voting stinks to me.

Going to vote is not the same as going shopping.

And here's a thing, a paper ballot can be counted and recounted and, unlike data on a computer, can't be easily wiped out or altered.

Mail in voting also has the advantage that the mail in address is a single place which can't be closed to some voters while open to others, unlike polling stations which oddly get closed, not opened, moved at the last minute or not supplied with voting machines.

In a Democracy it makes sense to make voting as convenient and secure as practicably possible.

I don't think mail in voting goes far enough, I'd like to see a polling day made a public holiday and the rights of people who must work on polling day to take time off to vote protected in law.

The bigger the turn out the more representative of the nation's wishes is the result.

Bluespunk · August 2, 2020

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

As expected? And what might that expectation be? Just simply that he responds at all? Or are they reading things into his responses . . . you know, making sh!t up and acting like it's r-e-a-l? If he responds it isn't necessarily indicative of anything, is it? You respond to my posts and sometimes I bait you. So would you consider your response to me likewise to Trump's response to their ad? As I said, you can always make sh!t up and say, "See, we triggered him and the Reagan reference really tormented him." Is that really true or are they making sh!t up? My advice is to look at what you're swallowing before you swallow.

As to the expansion of their campaign, hey, go right ahead. I ain't scared.

Ah, truth hurting is it.

It might not scare you, but it is another piece of the jigsaw that is in all probability going to lead trump to ignominious defeat this November.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Bluespunk

Susco · August 2, 2020

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don't think mail in voting goes far enough, I'd like to see a polling day made a public holiday and the rights of people who must work on polling day to take time off to vote protected in law.

The bigger the turn out the more representative of the nation's wishes is the result.

Probably the main reason why in most European countries elections are held on a Sunday

Susco · August 2, 2020

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

This is a republican run campaign.

True. But they don't like Trump

So trump was right when he said the other day, nobody likes him, when even his own party turn against him

stevenl · August 2, 2020

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Not really. Reasons against it sound much more plausible than reasons for it. I've heard and read both sides of the "safety" factor in mail-in-ballots. Facts are that it works and at times it doesn't work. Evidence exists on both sides. I doubt you would insist that voter fraud has never, ever happened with mail-in-ballots. If you did it wouldn't be true. We can argue all day about the extent, historically speaking. Times are very much different now. I don't trust it, and the fact that the Dems keep pounding away at it ardently (like I said, I've never been affiliated to any party) I don't have a scintilla of trust in them. I believe they're up to no good.

Again, it is much more Trump pounding away against it than others for it.

But the real reason for your stance comes in your final 2 sentences: you think it is bad because the Democrats want it. But since you believe Trump is up to good and tells the truth all is well.

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

27 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

But it's already on a mass scale, 34 out of 50 States do it, a few exclusively, and have for years.

What changed?

Absolutely nothing, except the ultra right media seem to have discovered a new boogie man.

I apply for the absentee ballot by mail along with a copy of my DL to prove I am eligible to vote, and thats it, and I think thats pretty common for most States that allow it.

The ID requirements are pretty comprehensive, so it's as safe as anything can be.

Here's the list of ID's from the SD application form.

Well, South Dakota has an ID law? Good on them. Doesn't go far enough, though. Should be a form of ID that identifies you as a citizen. I see "passport" as an acceptable form of ID but a drivers license will do, too. I was a green card holder and had a drivers license so I could have voted if I wanted to. I never did, though. Would have been illegal, but who's to know, right? My conscience knew.

The mass scale you're referring to (number of states) isn't the same as the mass scale I'm referring to. Not apples to apples. I'm talking about mass mail-in-ballots. Did you check out the CBS News link I posted a few hours ago? Argue with the results.

Tippaporn · August 2, 2020

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Going to vote is not the same as going shopping.

And here's a thing, a paper ballot can be counted and recounted and, unlike data on a computer, can't be easily wiped out or altered.

Mail in voting also has the advantage that the mail in address is a single place which can't be closed to some voters while open to others, unlike polling stations which oddly get closed, not opened, moved at the last minute or not supplied with voting machines.

In a Democracy it makes sense to make voting as convenient and secure as practicably possible.

I don't think mail in voting goes far enough, I'd like to see a polling day made a public holiday and the rights of people who must work on polling day to take time off to vote protected in law.

The bigger the turn out the more representative of the nation's wishes is the result.

I've posted before that I've heard and read all of the pros and cons. I've also posted all of my reasoning. Security is the issue. It ain't been tested before and first time around things can go horribly wrong. I wouldn't risk it on one of the most important presidential elections since the last one.

Going to vote is no different than going shopping. The goddamned country has been doing it since it's inception. So your excuse is what?

As to the Covid reason, it's more than obvious that they're trying to scare everyone half to death and methinks the reason is to get the mail-in-ballots instituted. As a foreigner who grew up in the States I had always appreciated Americans for their bravery. The past twenty years or so I've come to the conclusion that America really needs to change some of the verbiage in their national anthem. "Home of the brave" needs to be replaced by "home of the p=====s" because I've never seen so many Americans fearful of everything and anything, including their shadows. I certainly wouldn't include all Americans but seems the tide is turning from Americans who once took the risk upon themselves to blaze new frontiers to Americans who are sorely in need of safe spaces, can't own their own emotions, blame others for their own self-triggering, can't handle the truth of their history and want to erase it, and I'll stop there. Plenty of brave Americans still there, though. And they're doing their damnedest to fight against the insanity that's consuming the country.

Susco · August 2, 2020

2 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Security is the issue. It ain't been tested before and first time around things can go horribly wrong. I wouldn't risk it on one of the most important presidential elections since the last one.

So you're saying that, according to another poster it has been active in 32 states for years already, it hasn't been tested yet?

johnnybangkok · August 2, 2020

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, South Dakota has an ID law? Good on them. Doesn't go far enough, though. Should be a form of ID that identifies you as a citizen. I see "passport" as an acceptable form of ID but a drivers license will do, too. I was a green card holder and had a drivers license so I could have voted if I wanted to. I never did, though. Would have been illegal, but who's to know, right? My conscience knew.

The mass scale you're referring to (number of states) isn't the same as the mass scale I'm referring to. Not apples to apples. I'm talking about mass mail-in-ballots. Did you check out the CBS News link I posted a few hours ago? Argue with the results.

I have seen you post in previous posts Tippaporn and it always follows exactly the same formula so I think I'm spot on when I say I gaurantee you did not have an opinion of mail-in voting BEFORE Trump made it a thing. And once Trump makes it a thing, you fall obediantly in line like all Trump fans do and try your utmost to justify HIS stance. Facts don't matter to you because you can cherry pick your own facts with that one time you know, when it happened they way Trump says it could happen. Never mind the fact that there's been literally thousands of times when it didn't happen; that one time is good enough for your echo chamber.

There is no point debating you as there often is no point in debating most ardent Trump fans because the world is against you and your beloved leader and you'll be damned if they get the final word when you've still got breath in your lungs to argue black is white.

It's boring and predictable and I only hope come November we will hear the last of all Trump fans once and for all.

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