After 'warning light', British PM halts COVID lockdown unwind

[Kinnock]

18 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

So by your thoughts the UK should have abondoned lockdown once the NHS was up to scratch, correct? So considering that with lockdown the death total in the UK so far is approx. 46,000 what in your view would be an acceptable number of deaths then? 100,000, 150,000, 200,000?

These are the numbers extrapolated out so I'd be interested to hear just how many you would be willing to sacrifice.

People die - especially old and sick ones - you are quoting numbers with no context or reference.

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, englishoak said:

And there we are, flip flop once again. Nothing but the official narrative will be tolerated... no matter they keep changing what that is. What are they scared of  ? oh yea people making their own minds up, being an individual and getting on with life despite the hurdles, now we are supposed to run away and hide on command.. Sad but true. 

 

Just to keep things in perspective, about 100 million net are added to human population annually 60m so far this year, despite the virus ... its NOT a big deal .. even if 1 million die its STILL not as much as kill TB, Malaria or Dengue annually or a bad flu season.. get a grip the world is sliding into hysterical chaos all around the globe and most have bought into the fear porn. it would be laughable a few years ago this would be tolerated by people but now it seems people are begging for totalitarianism, please destroy peoples livlihoods just shut it all down.. RUN and HIDE, lose everything and do as your told like a good little drone like the gov says, for nothing but a virus with a kill rate of less than 0.5%... talk about being weak minded and easily lead. Pathetic.

 

When it all goes into a tailspin and continues to get more crazy and worsen remember who put up with and helped it happen. Because for some reason people are like scared rabbits these days... 

Oh boy, where to start.

Firstly I'll tell you what they are scared of; instead of 46,000 dead, it's 146,000 dead or 246,000 dead or even 346,000 dead. And please stop with the false equivalences. The VERY worst flu season EVER was 2017-2018 where up to 650,000 people died, however this is not a normal season where much lower numbers of 250k to 400k are usually reported.  https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year.

C19 has only been running worldwide since March (6 months) and so far has been responsible for over 600k deaths. Extrapolate that numer out to the year and you get 1.2 M, take away lockdown and you could be talking millions upon millions. Also:-

Malaria - 450 k deaths in 2018 https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/malaria_worldwide/impact.html

TB - 1.5 million deaths in 2018 https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis 

Dengue - 22,000 deaths per year https://www.cdc.gov/dengue/about/index.html

 

All of these are big numbers but again if you extrapolate C19 out over a year and remove lockdown, you can see it could easily cause more deaths than all the others you have  mentioned added together.

 

And lastly, I just love how so many people like yoursel are quite so happy to sacrifice so many people just to 'stick it to the man'. I assume you yourself or friends or family don't fall into the high risk category because it's a lot harder to constitute your stance when it's your own mother/ grandfather, next door neighbour facing the consequences. 

 

There are ways to mitigate all of this which i have explained in previous posts i.e. to isolate the most vulnerable, test, identify, trace and quarantine the infected but for some reason politics and incompetance seems to be getting in the way of this so lockdown seems currently the only solution for many. It's a neccessary evil until common sense takes control and sane minds start dictating policy. 

[NanLaew]

Meanwhile in Australia, Victoria has called a state of disaster and is introducing night curfews in Melbourne after losing their 3 week battle to contain the current outbreak of 'just another flu'. Attached if for the benefit of the 'just let 'em die like they did in Sweden' brigade.

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

People die - especially old and sick ones - you are quoting numbers with no context or reference.

Of course I am. These are hypothetical numbers used as an example when someone questioned the 46,000 already confirmed C19 deaths. The numbers have to be hypothetical as they are not happening thanks to lockdown.

What part of this don't you understand?

Edited August 2, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Outbreak is on his last legs? What planet do you live on?

Sweden's approach has cost them more deaths than their neighbors, so not a good example.

It is simplistic and misleading to compare Sweden's death rate to that of its neighbours. But the Swedes' "light touch" approach has demonstrably proved effective not just in terms of fatalities but also in maintaining social cohesion, limiting excess deaths due to lockdowns, and protecting the economy. 

 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/01/covid-why-sweden-has-already-won-the-debate-on-covid-19-lockdown-policy/

 

 

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Fortunately that is irrelevant.

Not to me.

[Meat Pie 47]

22 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Pandemics tend to run their course, no matter what measures are taken. Lockdowns simply delay the inevitable. Which is why the UK should have abandoned this disastrous policy once the health service in no danger of being overwhelmed - if it ever was.

 

Sweden is as guilty as the UK if failing to protect the vulnerable and elderly, and paid the same heavy rice in terms of inflated COVID deaths figures in care homes.

 

But unlike my homeland, Sweden chose to treat its citizenry like responsible adults rather than wayward children, in the process preserving not just its economy but a way of life preferable to any repressive "new normal" inflicted on the downtrodden Brits.

 

Mass tracking and tracing like that used in Korea and Taiwan is only feasible when populations have been brainwashed into sacrificing their privacy and personal freedom. Personally, I'd rather keep my civil liberties and risk the virus.

 

typical repub answer

[Krataiboy]

Just now, Meat Pie 47 said:

typical repub answer

Whatever that means.

[473geo]

You guys make me laugh, blame the politicians, you are a joke..........

 

People in the UK told to stay at home, but they have go out shopping to busy supermarkets, the most likely place they need to attend that carries risk, do they wear masks? no!!

So what exactly is the attitude?

Well guys it appears many are of the attitude 'I will get it sometime so why bother'

The government has now had to enforce the use of masks in shops, but wait, shops are having to employ security on the doors to make sure people obey the rules!!

 

Yet there are dummies pointing blame at the politicians trying to gain 'political points' while the government strive towards a balance of keeping the virus under control and keeping economy in the best possible shape. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by 473geo

[stevenl]

28 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

It is simplistic and misleading to compare Sweden's death rate to that of its neighbours. But the Swedes' "light touch" approach has demonstrably proved effective not just in terms of fatalities but also in maintaining social cohesion, limiting excess deaths due to lockdowns, and protecting the economy. 

 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/01/covid-why-sweden-has-already-won-the-debate-on-covid-19-lockdown-policy/

 

 

An opinion piece on something like this from May? Any updates since?

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I agree. Try these facts.

 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/01/covid-why-sweden-has-already-won-the-debate-on-covid-19-lockdown-policy/

But, but it was on tinternet!!!!

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 But the Swedes' "light touch" approach has demonstrably proved effective not just in terms of fatalities but also in maintaining social cohesion, limiting excess deaths due to lockdowns, and protecting the economy. 

 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/01/covid-why-sweden-has-already-won-the-debate-on-covid-19-lockdown-policy/

 

 

No it didn't, that is misleading

[Scott]

Posts and replies from an unapproved source have been removed.   Also removed are posts making unsupported facts. 

 

 

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

No it didn't, that is misleading

Would you like to elucidate?

[simple1]

8 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Would you like to elucidate?

read the later reporting by the Swedish lead on the Covid response regards the death rate and economic outcomes.

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/03/coronavirus-hard-hit-sweden-admits-it-could-have-battled-covid-19-better

[Scott]

Posts reported and removed for trolling and being inflammatory. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

23 hours ago, englishoak said:

And there we are, flip flop once again. Nothing but the official narrative will be tolerated... no matter they keep changing what that is. What are they scared of  ? oh yea people making their own minds up, being an individual and getting on with life despite the hurdles, now we are supposed to run away and hide on command.. Sad but true. 

 

Just to keep things in perspective, about 100 million net are added to human population annually 60m so far this year, despite the virus ... its NOT a big deal .. even if 1 million die its STILL not as much as kill TB, Malaria or Dengue annually or a bad flu season.. get a grip the world is sliding into hysterical chaos all around the globe and most have bought into the fear porn. it would be laughable a few years ago this would be tolerated by people but now it seems people are begging for totalitarianism, please destroy peoples livlihoods just shut it all down.. RUN and HIDE, lose everything and do as your told like a good little drone like the gov says, for nothing but a virus with a kill rate of less than 0.5%... talk about being weak minded and easily lead. Pathetic.

 

When it all goes into a tailspin and continues to get more crazy and worsen remember who put up with and helped it happen. Because for some reason people are like scared rabbits these days... 

The only people I see spreading fear are those who are protesting for their rights to do what they want and projecting their fear by accusing anyone else who conforms to government advice of being a sheeple. 

 

I see you are using the world population increase as mitigation to any losses of life in this pandemic, I would take a closer look if you want to use that. The are serious problems to come and not because of COVID but this virus will not help. Many countries populations are predicted to half in size.

 

Japan's population is projected to fall from a peak of 128 million in 2017 to less than 53 million by the end of the century.

Italy is expected to see an equally dramatic population crash from 61 million to 28 million over the same timeframe.

They are two of 23 countries - which also include Spain, Portugal, Thailand and South Korea - expected to see their population more than halve.

"That is jaw-dropping," Prof Christopher Murray told me. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

[englishoak]

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The only people I see spreading fear are those who are protesting for their rights to do what they want and projecting their fear by accusing anyone else who conforms to government advice of being a sheeple. 

 

I see you are using the world population increase as mitigation to any losses of life in this pandemic, I would take a closer look if you want to use that. The are serious problems to come and not because of COVID but this virus will not help. Many countries populations are predicted to half in size.

 

Japan's population is projected to fall from a peak of 128 million in 2017 to less than 53 million by the end of the century.

Italy is expected to see an equally dramatic population crash from 61 million to 28 million over the same timeframe.

They are two of 23 countries - which also include Spain, Portugal, Thailand and South Korea - expected to see their population more than halve.

"That is jaw-dropping," Prof Christopher Murray told me. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

 

I have zero issues with people living lives following gov rules and regulations, that is entirely upto them. It is when those people insist or demand mine conforms and aligns with theirs i take issue.   

 

Yes im aware of that study, except that wont begin to happen in earnest for the next 30 years. I found it funny, obvious and of no concern, Russia is already addressing it and other countries by encouraging larger families, which upsets the apple cart of the population reductionists there will always be something to panic people over. 

 

Everyone harping on about not enough resource of this or that,  pollution is terrible blah blah, everyone using and consuming more makes things worse, eco destruction yet on the other side global affluence is a good thing, living longer must be pursued, modern medicine, eradicating disease, abortion is a right, fertility control is a good thing, choosing to be non heterosexual is encouraged, a decent standard of living is expected.. well these things might seem great and logical complaints or aims and they are in themselves but ... much of it turns out to be in direct opposition to the other and there are always consequences  .. a population reduction "should" be good news to most worried about the state of the planet but when you look at the consequences in many ways it isnt.  We cant have everything on both sides of the fence, not unless we get off this ball of mud very soon. 

 

I fully expect population reduction to become the new fear over the next few decades and i wont worry about that any more than I will the plagues that will continue to manifest. Nature restores the balance one way or another. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by englishoak

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.   If you wish to discuss Sweden, there is a thread for that.