Richard Barrow may not have his visa renewed and could be forced to leave Thailand

[crickets]

Trying to start a campaign to cut revenue from an already struggling tourism industry with an attack on dual pricing was always going to end badly. 

[utalkin2me]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Flawed argument.... 

 

What about the Foreigners with Work Permits here who have paid years of Tax and are still double charged. 

 

Additionally, many Thai’s do not pay tax...

 

I have not seen one single valid argument ever which justifies dual pricing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See my previous post. 

 

Average Thai pays sales tax for 70 years. (Every Thai pays sales tax).

 

Average foreign teacher in Thailand, let's be generous and say 5 years, even though it is much lower than that. 

 

70/5= 14

 

Also, many of the places do let people in for the same fee if they have an id or work permit. 

 

You gotta get straight whose argument is flawed. 

 

Answer this simple question to unconfuse and unbias yourself... would you rather A) pay a lifetime of sales tax before entering a park or B pay an extra 100 baht to get in. If you did not just realize you got a deal to get in at that price you got some math problems. 

 

You have just been shown an argument that justifies many dual pricing scenarios, but refuse to accept it because you are biased. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by utalkin2me

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Jack Hna said:

This guy has single handedly created more farang resentment and he has done it knowingly and some of you support him all because he chooses to push a dual pricing matter at a time it hardly affects any farang, he most likely knew the issue before hand, therefore premeditated the whole thing. Richard Barrow stands alone and he makes it perfectly clear. He may make interesting blogs but his behaviour is now shining a light on all farang and it's not a good light. 

 

 

For real ????????  what a load of tosh.... 

[checkered flag]

17 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Lol, 4 years was enough.

 

https://visaguide.world/tips/becoming-a-citizen-of-thailand/

I'll bet you that you wouldn't last that long with a  young British beauty. Maybe about 30 seconds max. Longer with an overweight reject I suppose.

[MRToMRT]

I have to say after reading his Facebook page, what started off as an addition to his travel style blog somehow turned into a news outlet and then a vehicle for Thai haters to rant and rave against the system. And they have, in spades.

 

I know he makes no money from his web exploits he says but even so I think its got a bit too big to avoid scrutiny. 

 

He should have stuck with travel blogging. 

 

 

[tribalfusion001]

5 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I'll bet you that you wouldn't last that long with a  young British beauty. Maybe about 30 seconds max. Longer with an overweight reject I suppose.

Plenty of overweight rejects here, horrible specimens, enough to put one of his beer in the pub! I'm not really the settling down type, got boring after a couple of years tbh.

[checkered flag]

13 minutes ago, Jack Hna said:

This guy has single handedly created more farang resentment and he has done it knowingly and some of you support him all because he chooses to push a dual pricing matter at a time it hardly affects any farang, he most likely knew the issue before hand, therefore premeditated the whole thing. Richard Barrow stands alone and he makes it perfectly clear. He may make interesting blogs but his behaviour is now shining a light on all farang and it's not a good light. 

 

 

Pretty good analysis. He had some interesting stories but mostly choreographed by TAT. I never viewed him as his own man. Why in the world did he care about dual pricing (other than a quick mention) or payment at immigration is beyond me? Trying to organize resistance was nothing but foolish. He comes across as a arrogant entitled fool. Maybe he's listening too much to his full of it British friends. Nothing against my British friends but they even tell me how stupid others are. 

[Ricebarnandrooms]

8 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Unfortunately he never really clarifies the details of his situation.

I don’t know Richard but he has a business visa. Did the company formation have the required 3 million investment. Do you have the correct thai number of Thai shareholders? Do you do audited accounts each year, do you have the required number of thai workers and that you are paying their social security payments, minimum wage and tax? Do you work from the business registered address. Is your work permit correct?  A lot of questions need answering. 

With what I have read in the thread it seems that he’s working at a school, doing websites/blogs and other things. Surprised that he got an extension last year. 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

See my previous post. 

 

Average Thai pays tax for 70 years.

 

Average foreign teacher in Thailand, let's be generous and say 5 years, even though it is much lower than that. 

 

70/5= 14

 

You gotta get whose argument is flawed. 

 

So, we have covered foreign workers and tourists. Anyone else? 

You didn’t cover it very well.... so I’ll accommodate your argument and discuss:

 

What is the average working life expectancy of a Thai?  

They don’t pay tax when they are kids. 

They don’t pay tax when they have stopped working. 

 

So... For those Thai’s who do pay tax - a working life span of what?... for arguments sake 20-65 yrs old. 

45 years. 

 

Average Thai Salary: 14392 baht per month (as of 2020) 

https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/wages

 

172,704 baht per year

 

Tax bracket: 0-150,000 per year, No Tax / 150,000 - 300,000 per year = 5%

 

Thus: the average Thai pays 5% tax on 22,704 Baht. 1135 Baht per year. 

or 51,084 baht over their lifetime (income only).

 

 

You wanted to compare the average Thai paying Tax vs the Average Westerner paying tax... 

 

I think the ‘Average Westerner’ pays more tax in a year than the Average Thai pays over their life.

 

The tax argument just doesn’t cut it. 

 

As I wrote earlier: I’ve not seen one valid argument to justify dual pricing: ALL arguments I’ve read and heard before have been fundamentally flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Burma Bill]

8 hours ago, Grumpy John said:

He must have said something which put someones nose out of joint!   Maybe someone in the current regime...... ????

Best wishes to him but:-

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

 

New to Thailand it seems.

Thais aren't getting a break. They pay the normal price. The foreigner price is set simply to make the maximum profit from tourists. Nothing to do with Thai people getting a discount.

In fact any extra people visiting and paying the local price is extra revenue, on top of the Thai visitors.

 

An attraction that I visited had previous pricing of 75 baht for Thais and 100 baht for foreigners. This moved to 100 baht for Thais and 300 baht for foreigners.

 

So where is the discount for Thais? In your scenario the price for Thais would have needed to move to 275 baht if there were no foreigners to subsidise them. Do you think that is the case? Of course you do not. Dual pricing is simply a populist cash grab and drives a further wedge between the locals and ourselves.

 

Extra revenue vs what baseline?  Part of this has to do with public-vs-private. But, in your example, if Thais and Foreigners pay 150 each - is that better, in your view?   If so, I simply disagree. 

My wife saw the Grand Palace for free, while I paid full-price, to spite a work-permit (yes, I pay taxes here).  But that is not MY King's Grand Palace, as it is hers, so that is fine by me.

And for public/govt/wat sites, I think they should have "Thai Citizen Only" days.  After experiencing some of these pre and post covid - when not swarmed with tour-buses - I thought about this.  Why should Thais have to be packed-in with foreigners, when visiting their own heritage-sites?

 

Generally, I have no problem with 'citizen-privilege' pricing and what-not.  Corruption bribery-scams (which also affect Thais), are something else - inexcusable and disgusting.

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, oobar said:

35 years in Thailand tells me we need many hundreds more farang like him.

To get any point across to these people you would about 65 million farang!

[Grusa]

7 hours ago, Jackcwba said:

He’s an attention seeker end of story.

look at all this suspense he has created and now watch him get extended next week.

 

 

[rumak]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

As I wrote earlier: I’ve not seen one valid argument to justify dual pricing: ALL arguments I’ve read and heard before have been fundamentally flawed.

every argument you make is exceptional and i for one am thrilled to know the truth.   all the other

flawed arguments are from people who obviously are not as knowledgeable as yourself.

thank you for always setting us on the correct path to understanding and enlightenment on so many

issues.   

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Saint Nick said:

Because there is ONE price for everybody, no matter nationality or race and then there is a discount for locals!

See the difference?

Thailand is the "locality" here - they have 'Thai' IDs.  If they are charging "Asians" different than "Caucasians" or similar - regardless of Nationality - that is a very different problem.

 

1 hour ago, Saint Nick said:

You can in my homecountry!

That's one reason our countries are going to (explitive).  Folks come in and attack our culture, history, traditions, buy up property and make us their renters in our own homeland, etc.  That is wrong, and they should go home. 

 

Thailand has a better system - preserving their culture and NOT allowing foreigners to buy up their homeland.  That said, the corruption problem does need to be addressed. 

 

I don't recall Barrow ever tearing down Thailand's history, culture, etc, though.

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Flawed argument.... 

 

What about the Foreigners with Work Permits here who have paid years of Tax and are still double charged. 

 

Additionally, many Thai’s do not pay tax...

 

I have not seen one single valid argument ever which justifies dual pricing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See my previous post. 

 

Average Thai pays sales tax for 70 years. (Every Thai pays sales tax).

 

Average foreign teacher in Thailand, let's be generous and say 5 years, even though it is much lower than that. 

 

70/5= 14

 

Also, many of the places do let people in for the same fee if they have an id or work permit. 

National Parks do not. 

Those with work permits, Pink ID cards are still subject to dual pricing at national parks. 

Some private businesses (such as Safari world etc and others allow entry on the Thai price with a Thai Drivers licence etc). 

 

33 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

 

You gotta get straight whose argument is flawed. 

 

Answer this simple question to unconfuse and unbias yourself... would you rather A) pay a lifetime of sales tax before entering a park or B pay an extra 100 baht to get in. If you did not just realize you got a deal to get in at that price you got some math problems. 

This is still no justification for dual pricing.

Do you think foreigners should pay more for a Thai Airways flight on a national airline, which is owned by the ’Thai People’ ???? (official owner of TG is the Ministry of Finance). 

 

 

33 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

You have just been shown an argument that justifies many dual pricing scenarios, but refuse to accept it because you are biased. 

No need to send me a PM of insults... just present a decent argument here. 

 

You bring up a valid point of sales tax - which everyone pays each and every time they purchase something. 

 

For those of us who live here and have spent any duration of time here, how much tax have we paid on our house, cars etc

 

Myself and most westerners I know in Thailand have paid more income tax and sales tax than the vast majority of Thai’s. 

 

 

The tax argument whichever tax it is, is extremely flawed when being used to justify dual pricing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mark131v]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd never ever go on face<deleted>, instagram, or any of that <deleted>, but if he has been "spreading the word on how Thailand looks at farangs" he is quite rightly going to get the boot out of LOS. Biting the hand that feeds one is never a good idea.

Can't believe how many farang aliens think they have "rights" in LOS.

 

Want to stay- smile, keep mouth shut on social media <deleted>.

You missed the bit about drop your trousers and bend over!

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, TonBrow said:

My Non B visa expired during the amnesty period just after I received my work permit in May. Since then, I've been to immigration at Changwattana three times trying to get it extended. Each time they tell me they can't extend the visa and I must go out of Thailand to make a new visa. After seeing this post, and given the fact that the Thai government requires all foreigners entering the country to quarantine in one of those very expensive downtown hotels in Bangkok or Phuket (minimum cost THB30k/15 days), I can't help but wonder if this part of the scam. Refuse to extend the visa, so those who can/must come back into Thailand will have to pay the extravagant prices for quarantine when they re-enter. This way, those hotels make some money out of this crises, while at the same time, the Thai government officials get some money for themselves in kick back payments.

No.  And Immigration at BOI pulls the same stunt.  What they mean is, "To get a B-Visa in-country (90-day stamp), you need to pay our Lawyer Friends a PILE of Baht, most of which will go to our pockets."  

 

This is nothing new, other than not being able to 'go out for a visa' - so instead of just offering extortion vs incovenience, they have us over a barrel.

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, rumak said:

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As I wrote earlier: I’ve not seen one valid argument to justify dual pricing: ALL arguments I’ve read and heard before have been fundamentally flawed.

every argument you make is exceptional and i for one am thrilled to know the truth.   all the other

flawed arguments are from people who obviously are not as knowledgeable as yourself.

thank you for always setting us on the correct path to understanding and enlightenment on so many

issues. 

A dig at the person because you can’t take on the debate ???  clever guy !

[herwin1234]

9 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

To get any point across to these people you would about 65 million farang!

"these people"? lol.

 

It is their country. why do you feel entitled to make a point to them that is basically a point from your culture with little regard, knowledge and understanding for the culture of "these people". 

 

Basically you voluntarely come to another country and next you wanna tell these people how stupid they are and they should listen to your viewpoint. lol. 

 

[herwin1234]

49 minutes ago, crickets said:

Trying to start a campaign to cut revenue from an already struggling tourism industry with an attack on dual pricing was always going to end badly. 

Look at everybody here on the forum. one giant negativity fest, this time about "dual pricing". 

 

why people cant be more positive, even talking about issues that should be talked about, it can be done more positive, at least on a public forum.

 

Yeah, attacking dual pricing while there is a crisis, just aint the way to go. Would be more nice and positive and helpful to be more supportive of ones guest country. he could have tried to encourage fellow farang to have holiday in Thailand, and so help Thai tourist sector.

 

Thai people positive and united. Farang too many times too confrontational and negative. 

[Dogmatix]

55 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

See my previous post. 

 

Average Thai pays sales tax for 70 years. (Every Thai pays sales tax).

 

Average foreign teacher in Thailand, let's be generous and say 5 years, even though it is much lower than that. 

 

70/5= 14

 

Also, many of the places do let people in for the same fee if they have an id or work permit. 

 

You gotta get straight whose argument is flawed. 

 

Answer this simple question to unconfuse and unbias yourself... would you rather A) pay a lifetime of sales tax before entering a park or B pay an extra 100 baht to get in. If you did not just realize you got a deal to get in at that price you got some math problems. 

 

You have just been shown an argument that justifies many dual pricing scenarios, but refuse to accept it because you are biased. 

Thailand doesn't have a sales tax. It has value added tax which is a bit different. Foreign tourists pay VAT too and many, if the are higher spenders, may pay a lot more VAT in a two week trip than the average Thai pays in a year. Most Thai workers don't pay any income tax as they earn too little. 

 

The argument of paying tax is completely spurious in justifying dual pricing, particularly in the case of expats working in the Kingdom.

[tribalfusion001]

39 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Extra revenue vs what baseline?  Part of this has to do with public-vs-private. But, in your example, if Thais and Foreigners pay 150 each - is that better, in your view?   If so, I simply disagree. 

My wife saw the Grand Palace for free, while I paid full-price, to spite a work-permit (yes, I pay taxes here).  But that is not MY King's Grand Palace, as it is hers, so that is fine by me.

And for public/govt/wat sites, I think they should have "Thai Citizen Only" days.  After experiencing some of these pre and post covid - when not swarmed with tour-buses - I thought about this.  Why should Thais have to be packed-in with foreigners, when visiting their own heritage-sites?

 

Generally, I have no problem with 'citizen-privilege' pricing and what-not.  Corruption bribery-scams (which also affect Thais), are something else - inexcusable and disgusting.

Everybody pays the same in the UK, citizens, residents and tourists. That's the way it should be and it's fair to everyone. Citizen days for free is a good idea and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

[SteveK]

Whether it's right or wrong, dual pricing is something that happens in many countries. It seems weird that a guest in the country feels that it's right to publicly shame the country online because they don't agree with it. In your own country, fine.  Thailand has something called face, and Mr Barrow seems to like causing people to lose it. It seems like very entitled behaviour from someone who is only on temporary permission to stay in the kingdom.

 

Most of the comments on the Facebook page were from sanctimonious virtue-signallers who've probably never even been to Thailand. These kinds of behaviours are only going to compound any resentment towards westerners trying to live a quiet life in Thailand. What is Mr Barrow going to rail against next? It's not surprising at all that he's skating on thin ice.

Edited August 14, 2020 by SteveK

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

See my previous post. 

 

Average Thai pays sales tax for 70 years. (Every Thai pays sales tax).

 

Average foreign teacher in Thailand, let's be generous and say 5 years, even though it is much lower than that. 

 

70/5= 14

 

Also, many of the places do let people in for the same fee if they have an id or work permit. 

 

You gotta get straight whose argument is flawed. 

 

Answer this simple question to unconfuse and unbias yourself... would you rather A) pay a lifetime of sales tax before entering a park or B pay an extra 100 baht to get in. If you did not just realize you got a deal to get in at that price you got some math problems. 

 

You have just been shown an argument that justifies many dual pricing scenarios, but refuse to accept it because you are biased. 

Thailand doesn't have a sales tax. It has value added tax which is a bit different. Foreign tourists pay VAT too and many, if the are higher spenders, may pay a lot more VAT in a two week trip than the average Thai pays in a year. Most Thai workers don't pay any income tax as they earn too little. 

 

The argument of paying tax is completely spurious in justifying dual pricing, particularly in the case of expats working in the Kingdom.

utalkin2me's argument is that a Thai pays tax over a lifetime and the average foreigner does not pay tax over a lifetime. 

 

His argument is that it doesn’t matter what the amount is, just that a Thai pays over a lifetime which some how justifies  establishments to ‘charge foreigners’ 10x more to enter a national park. 

 

His argument bases around the point that over the span of a life time the average Thai probably pays more tax than the average Foreigner and thus there is a line somewhere between which establishes that dual charging is acceptable. 

 

The argument presented by utalkin2me fails terribly (IMO) to justify dual pricing at government places and doesn’t start to justify dual pricing at private places of business. 

 

 

I live with all this dual pricing and visa hoops and while I object to thins I find distasteful or unnecessary I don’t let them bother my day to day life. It is for this reason that I am happy there are people like Richard Barrow who are prepared to publicly voice objection and rally support for the objection of such practices. 

 

 

 

 

 

[tribalfusion001]

8 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Whether it's right or wrong, dual pricing is something that happens in many countries. It seems weird that a guest in the country feels that it's right to publicly shame the country online because they don't agree with it. In your own country, fine.  Thailand has something called face, and Mr Barrow seems to like causing people to lose it. It seems like very entitled behaviour from someone who is only on temporary permission to stay in the kingdom.

 

Most of the comments on the Facebook page were from sanctimonious virtue-signallers who've probably never even been to Thailand. These kinds of behaviours are only going to compound any resentment towards westerners trying to live a quiet life in Thailand. What is Mr Barrow going to rail against next?   

Tbh, Asian countries do have losing face and it's quite childish. I've had arguments with girls over topics and I know I was correct, I've proved my point with them and then they sulk losing face. Childish behaviour and sometimes saying farang doesn't understand to end a discussion. These were educated girls sometimes, not always 555.

Edited August 14, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Whether it's right or wrong, dual pricing is something that happens in many countries. It seems weird that a guest in the country feels that it's right to publicly shame the country online because they don't agree with it. In your own country, fine.  Thailand has something called face, and Mr Barrow seems to like causing people to lose it. It seems like very entitled behaviour from someone who is only on temporary permission to stay in the kingdom.

 

Most of the comments on the Facebook page were from sanctimonious virtue-signallers who've probably never even been to Thailand. These kinds of behaviours are only going to compound any resentment towards westerners trying to live a quiet life in Thailand. What is Mr Barrow going to rail against next? It's not surprising at all that he's skating on thin ice.

He might rally against 90 day reports - we’d all like those to go away wouldn’t we ????

 

If these issues are dealt with politely to raise awareness amongst those in positions of decision making power then I support there person doing so. 

 

[Jack Hna]

What accent does this Brit have? Where in UK is this self promoting selfish misguided buffoon from?

 

Reading about this chap it sounds like he failed at a very early age in the UK gave up and got his family to help him get a foothold here and the result has been his helpers have helped him keep the same job for 26 years and to pay them back he goes Rambo on the Thai gov in his last couple of years. So instead of being thankful for the fact he has held the same post and feeling lucky. He starts hurting the very country that made him want to call this his home.

 

 

[PatOngo]

29 minutes ago, herwin1234 said:

"these people"? lol.

 

It is their country. why do you feel entitled to make a point to them that is basically a point from your culture with little regard, knowledge and understanding for the culture of "these people". 

 

Basically you voluntarely come to another country and next you wanna tell these people how stupid they are and they should listen to your viewpoint. lol. 

 

No, we missed the chance for colonisation decades ago! I blame the English, the French and the Dutch!

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

No, we missed the chance for colonisation decades ago! I blame the English, the French and the Dutch!

Us Brits were close, we were in Burma and Malaysia. The place would be a lot more organised and logical if we had colonized them lol.