Energy Ministry plans a future with electric vehicles

[webfact]

Energy Ministry plans a future with electric vehicles

By The Nation

 

 

The Energy Ministry plans to have up to 1.2 million electric vehicles plying the roads by 2030 and is laying the foundation for infrastructure and battery development.

 

Wattanapong Kurovat, chief of the Energy Policy and Planning Office, said the ministry was sticking by its goal of 1.2 million EV cars by 2030 as other facilities such as charging stations, electric system and EV car technology were being developed including plans on reducing energy consumption.

 

He said the office was also studying the option of EV users selling extra energy from their batteries to the national power grid, which will help strengthen the country’s electricity security.

 

Somphot Ahunai, president of the energy firm, Energy Absolute, said promoting the use of electric vehicles should be done systematically, starting with creating a demand by reducing the price barrier and installing some 2,000 charging stations 50 kilometres apart nationwide.

 

He said the government can pilot EVs in public transport, taxis and government cars first. When demand rises, it will result in automakers, battery manufacturers and makers of EV parts basing themselves in Thailand and ultimately turning it into an EV hub in Asean.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/business/30393140

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-08-18

 

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[american2]

I support the move to EV vehicles and hope it moves smoothly.  I have a concern that charging stations will only be plentiful in Bangkok and maybe Chiang Mai.  That would limit the usefullness and desireability of these vehicles.  You can't drive where you can not charge.  If that is the case  might as well just stay with the Hybrid models.

The idea of EV owners selling excess power from the car batteries to EGAT is rediculas.

[hotchilli]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

The Energy Ministry plans to have up to 1.2 million electric vehicles plying the roads by 2030 and is laying the foundation for infrastructure and battery development.

The auto trade is in a spiral at the moment, EV cars are a pipe dream, the average car is more expensive than an alternative combustion engine or better option hybrid engine.

A full EV has a shorter life expectancy and after a few years when the battery dies it's a junk yard trip as no-one will replace it with an expensive new one. Second hand EV values also plummet as the age and mileage increase.

Take a look at the Tesla market in USA, rich people buy a new one as they don't care about the new showroom price, but take a look at the second hand price after 5-6 years.. give-aways.

After that it's in the scrap yard.

Edited August 19, 2020 by hotchilli

[clokwise]

Yeah,

1 hour ago, american2 said:

The idea of EV owners selling excess power from the car batteries to EGAT is rediculas.

 

It's utterly absurd. But look who is saying it, and who he's saying it too. He's the head of an energy lobbying firm, focusing on clean energy, renewables, bio-fuels, and that sort of stuff. He's saying this directly to the govt. ministers, who probably don't have as much expertise as they should have for their position (to put it mildly). But you know, I'll support whatever it takes to get the Thai govt to fully embrace modern forms of energy, even if you have to tell them fairy tales.

 

[Jimbo2014]

The government needs to make changes to its policies to support renewable energy.  Presently the Thai government and special interest groups (their friends) are addicted to revenue from cheap diesel and rapid cheap car sales.   If they are serious - they need to incentivise the change to cleaner energies. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Very sensible and the way to go for the future. Obviously the infrastructure for charging vehicles needs to be put in place across the country but it is a smart move for many reasons.

 

In China it works very well.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Laughing Gravy

[Bender Rodriguez]

308 percent import tax makes it DEAD in the water project

[digger70]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

He said the office was also studying the option of EV users selling extra energy from their batteries to the national power grid, which will help strengthen the country’s electricity security

He's not the Full Quid . Hows that going to work? Plug the car into the power point and charge the batteries .

Than run a lead from the batteries to an inverter and put it back into the grid? Fruitcake.

 

One can't have extra energy in the batteries . One needs all what one can get from the batteries to drive and hope for Satans sake the batteries don't go flat before one gets to their destination.

[ballpoint]

The idea of paying electric vehicle owners to keep them plugged into the national grid while not being used, giving the option to draw power from the batteries back into the grid at times of high demand, has been mooted by other governments as well:

 

"The Realising Electric Vehicle-to-grid Services project (REVS) will see owners paid to plug their electric vehicles into the national electricity grid.

In exchange, the vehicles will allow the national grid operator to draw upon their batteries in the rare moments that the grid is on the brink of a blackout."

https://theconversation.com/owners-of-electric-vehicles-to-be-paid-to-plug-into-the-grid-to-help-avoid-blackouts-132519

[mtls2005]

They just have to figure out which family gets the monopoly on the extension cord market.

 

 

[Burma Bill]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

charging stations 50 kilometres apart nationwide.

Every 50 kilometres among the vast mountainous regions of Northern Thailand - I bet not!!

Standard service stations are not as regular as this on many long distance isolated mountain roads.

I know, I used to live there.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Burma Bill
additional information

[NeoDinosaw]

Good the see the PTT building dominating the background showing the preference for oil and gas. The Dept of Energy building is almost hiding behind the trees !

[PETERTHEEATER]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

He said the office was also studying the option of EV users selling extra energy from their batteries to the national power grid, which will help strengthen the country’s electricity security.

To have 'extra energy' available would require a power cell that produces energy in the form of electricity. A battery for an EV stores electrical energy to power the vehicle and the present technology is barely sufficient to provide enough range to be a attractive to a buyer. If extra energy is available from Thai made batteries I suggest it is used to positively activate the brain cells of Government Ministers.

[canopy]

51 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

the present technology is barely sufficient to provide enough range to be a attractive to a buyer.

EVs with 500km range are available and 1000 km on the way. 

 

3 hours ago, digger70 said:

Hows that going to work? Plug the car into the power point and charge the batteries

Read up on V2G (vehicle to grid).

 

23 hours ago, webfact said:

starting with creating a demand by reducing the price barrier

This is exactly the problem--in Thailand they charge double for an EV compared to the price they cost in other countries. It's obvious why no one wants them. As long as this is the case, good look finding 1.2M suckers.

 

[Laza 45]

6 hours ago, hotchilli said:

The auto trade is in a spiral at the moment, EV cars are a pipe dream, the average car is more expensive than an alternative combustion engine or better option hybrid engine.

A full EV has a shorter life expectancy and after a few years when the battery dies it's a junk yard trip as no-one will replace it with an expensive new one. Second hand EV values also plummet as the age and mileage increase.

Take a look at the Tesla market in USA, rich people buy a new one as they don't care about the new showroom price, but take a look at the second hand price after 5-6 years.. give-aways.

After that it's in the scrap yard.

Have a look at this link for some insight into battery life and exchange.. The technology is changing rapidly.  https://electrek.co/2020/06/02/nio-battery-swap-electric-cars-completes-500000-swaps/

[Laza 45]

1 hour ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

To have 'extra energy' available would require a power cell that produces energy in the form of electricity. A battery for an EV stores electrical energy to power the vehicle and the present technology is barely sufficient to provide enough range to be a attractive to a buyer. If extra energy is available from Thai made batteries I suggest it is used to positively activate the brain cells of Government Ministers.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/02/nio-battery-swap-electric-cars-completes-500000-swaps/

[Brunolem]

Before thinking about electric vehicles, what about building a reliable national electricity grid?

 

We were again without electricity for a couple of hours this morning, even though there was no wind, rain or any damaging weather.

 

Electricity cuts, short or long, are an almost daily occurence...

 

 

[Redline]

7 hours ago, american2 said:

I support the move to EV vehicles and hope it moves smoothly.  I have a concern that charging stations will only be plentiful in Bangkok and maybe Chiang Mai.  That would limit the usefullness and desireability of these vehicles.  You can't drive where you can not charge.  If that is the case  might as well just stay with the Hybrid models.

The idea of EV owners selling excess power from the car batteries to EGAT is rediculas.

PTT said before that it will have charging stations at all of its outlets-that’s more than enough.  There are probably more than you think already.  There are a few apps that have the locations-still not enough in rural areas at this time.

 

[digger70]

1 hour ago, canopy said:

Read up on V2G (vehicle to grid).

I did ,That's stupid ,you're  car is on the charger, you are  Paying for it and someone else is taking the power out of you're car . Clever Rip offs. 

You're paying and someone else is paying for the power you already paid for.

[Megasin1]

it'll be interesting to see what the battery life is in a high temperature, high humidity environment, I hope they have carried out a good study on this so that people can buy with confidence......LOL

[rcummings]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:57 AM, hotchilli said:

Take a look at the Tesla market in USA, rich people buy a new one as they don't care about the new showroom price, but take a look at the second hand price after 5-6 years.. give-aways.

After that it's in the scrap yard.

Really?

How Tesla’s Rock-Solid Resale Values Can Make Buying A New One A Better Deal Than Buying A Used One

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2019/11/05/why-buying-a-new-tesla-can-be-a-better-deal-than-choosing-a-used-one/#2493ed6322d0

Edited August 21, 2020 by rcummings

[rcummings]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:57 AM, hotchilli said:

The auto trade is in a spiral at the moment, EV cars are a pipe dream, the average car is more expensive than an alternative combustion engine or better option hybrid engine.

A full EV has a shorter life expectancy and after a few years when the battery dies it's a junk yard trip as no-one will replace it with an expensive new one. Second hand EV values also plummet as the age and mileage increase.

All that's necessary for EV's to easily outcompete internal combustion cars is for the battery price to come down to $100 per Kwh. Battery prices have plummeted precipitously in the past 10 years. Last year the average cost was $156. Tesla is about to make a major announcement about new battery technology set to go into production. 

Teslas already are competing successfully for use in fleets because maintenance costs are much lower than for IC autos.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/03/tesla-push-toward-fleet-vehicles/

ANd you couldn't be more wrong abouts the durability of EVs. Mechanically they are much simpler than internal combustion powered cars. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/your-ev-questions-answered-electric-vehicle-faq/#reliable

Edited August 21, 2020 by rcummings

[rcummings]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:55 PM, Megasin1 said:

it'll be interesting to see what the battery life is in a high temperature, high humidity environment, I hope they have carried out a good study on this so that people can buy with confidence......LOL

Low temperature is more of a challenge. High temperatures, not really. And why would humidity affect a sealed battery? 

[rcummings]

On 8/19/2020 at 4:59 PM, digger70 said:

I did ,That's stupid ,you're  car is on the charger, you are  Paying for it and someone else is taking the power out of you're car . Clever Rip offs. 

You're paying and someone else is paying for the power you already paid for.

Actualy it's a brilliant idea. Instead of having to build expensive peaker or storage facilities, utilities get to use a bit of the electricity that's stored in your car. And you get paid for it. And since rates are higher when demand is up, the car owner will actually make a profit.

[NE1]

I bet sombody will still come up with a way to make sound like a V8 and bellow black smoke so it appeals to the racers.

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, rcummings said:

All that's necessary for EV's to easily outcompete internal combustion cars is for the battery price to come down to $100 per Kwh. Battery prices have plummeted precipitously in the past 10 years. Last year the average cost was $156. Tesla is about to make a major announcement about new battery technology set to go into production. 

Teslas already are competing successfully for use in fleets because maintenance costs are much lower than for IC autos.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/03/tesla-push-toward-fleet-vehicles/

ANd you couldn't be more wrong abouts the durability of EVs. Mechanically they are much simpler than internal combustion powered cars. 

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/your-ev-questions-answered-electric-vehicle-faq/#reliable

Okay you're the expert... 

But with new technology the older cars [not that old] will be sold for nothing as  no-one will want one.
As for fewer parts yes I agree.. but when the electric motor at each wheel burns out.. wow the price of a new one?

It goes both ways... but you know best .

[rcummings]

13 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Okay you're the expert... 

But with new technology the older cars [not that old] will be sold for nothing as  no-one will want one.
As for fewer parts yes I agree.. but when the electric motor at each wheel burns out.. wow the price of a new one?

It goes both ways... but you know best .

Electric motors are far more durable than those powered by internal combustion as the article from consumer reports showed.  As for "wow the price of a new one" I don't know that it's a "wow" at all. Do you?

And as another post of mine above showed, the resale value of Teslas is very high. And as battery prices continue to plummet, replacing batteries will make more and more economic sense.

[Oldie]

They should start to replace the city busses. Also here in Pattaya replacing the Baht busses by electric versions would improve the air quality. 

[hotchilli]

33 minutes ago, rcummings said:

Electric motors are far more durable than those powered by internal combustion as the article from consumer reports showed.  As for "wow the price of a new one" I don't know that it's a "wow" at all. Do you?

And as another post of mine above showed, the resale value of Teslas is very high. And as battery prices continue to plummet, replacing batteries will make more and more economic sense.

What you forget is the cost of replacement parts as the are needed, not just as they age.

The cost of repairing damaged cars due to accidents which is high in Thailand, no more cheap bits for standard cars, wait for the replacement electric bits.

Another thing to consider, as technology increases so does the expense, every modern car is computerised, a hundred sensors that tell you everything... all made of plastic that have a shelf life. When they age & crack/break they need replacing, but the cost to you is not the cheap price of manufacture... the dealerships screw you, after-sale profits.

Also when you fit a new part, the computer system will not recognise it, it has to be taken to a dealer to be plugged into their scanner to work.

Things they don't tell you when you go to the showroom to buy a shiny new one. 

[rcummings]

44 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

What you forget is the cost of replacement parts as the are needed, not just as they age.

The cost of repairing damaged cars due to accidents which is high in Thailand, no more cheap bits for standard cars, wait for the replacement electric bits.

Another thing to consider, as technology increases so does the expense, every modern car is computerised, a hundred sensors that tell you everything... all made of plastic that have a shelf life. When they age & crack/break they need replacing, but the cost to you is not the cheap price of manufacture... the dealerships screw you, after-sale profits.

Also when you fit a new part, the computer system will not recognise it, it has to be taken to a dealer to be plugged into their scanner to work.

Things they don't tell you when you go to the showroom to buy a shiny new one. 

But we do know that Teslas are already competitive for fleet sales because their maintenance costs are much lower than the maintenance costs of IC autos.

And is it cheap to replace parts of standard cars? I've got a Toyota IC and part replacements don't come cheap.