U.S. Homeland Security warns that Russia is trying to undermine confidence in mail-in voting

[webfact]

U.S. Homeland Security warns that Russia is trying to undermine confidence in mail-in voting

By Mark Hosenball

 

FILE PHOTO: A Priority Mail Express collection bin is seen near the Trump International Hotel in Washington, U.S. August 22, 2020. REUTERS/Erin Scott

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is warning that Russia is trying to undermine Americans' confidence in the security and validity of mail-in voting.

 

In a bulletin labelled "For official use only" circulated on Thursday, the DHS Office of Intelligence and Analysis said Russia was "likely to continue amplifying criticism of vote by mail and shifting voting processes amidst the COVID-19 pandemic to undermine public trust in the electoral process."

 

The bulletin said that in mid-August, Russian state media outlets and proxy websites published criticism of widespread mail-in voting, "claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls, leaving a vast amount of ballots unaccounted for and vulnerable to tampering."

 

It said that since March, Russian outlets also sought to undermine confidence in mail-in voting processes, alleging that they provide "vast opportunities for voter fraud."

 

The bulletin said Russia is likely to step up trolling by promoting allegations of U.S. election system corruption, failures and "foreign malign interference" to undermine public trust in U.S. elections. It noted that following the Iowa caucuses earlier this year, Russian outlets claimed that the result was "fixed in favor of establishment candidates" and that voting system problems had resulted in "ballot manipulation."

 

The Department of Homeland Security had no immediate comment. Russia has denied interfering in U.S. elections.

 

Adam Schiff, the Democrat who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, said the bulletin validated his concern that Russia is seeking to "sow distrust in our democratic process."

 

By attacking U.S. mail-in ballot integrity, Schiff said, "Russia is echoing destructive and false narratives around vote by mail that President Trump and his enablers, including Attorney General (William) Barr, have been aggressively promoting."

 

Trump has repeatedly criticized mail-in voting, saying in one July 30 Tweet: "With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history."

 

(Reporting by Mark Hosenball; Editing by Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-09-04

 

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[Poet]

Whatever ineffective dicking around they did with a tiny number of Facebooks ads in the run-up to the 2016 election, by now the Russians must be truly horrified to have once again become the American establishment's whipping boys every time they want to whip up public opinion in a certain direction.

Common sense suggests that the Russians are keeping well out of it this time, unlike the Chinese and Iranians who have a vested interest in getting Biden into power and returning to business as usual.

Russia is no superpower. Their economy is smaller than Italy's. That they keep getting trotted out by the Democrats as a sort of cold war boogeyman is an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

 

25 minutes ago, webfact said:

The bulletin said that in mid-August, Russian state media outlets and proxy websites published criticism of widespread mail-in voting, "claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls, leaving a vast amount of ballots unaccounted for and vulnerable to tampering."

If any of this made it into a Russian news bulletin, it is actually accurate and newsworthy. Simply stating facts cannot be considered an attempt to subvert American democracy.

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Poet

[Odysseus123]

Oh!..

And I thought the chief underminer of the mail in votes was the incumbent president of the United States..

It is so refreshing (and original) that it turns out to be the Russians once again.

[TopDeadSenter]

16 minutes ago, webfact said:

Russian state media outlets and proxy websites published criticism of widespread mail-in voting, "claiming ineligible voters could receive ballots due to out-of-date voter rolls, leaving a vast amount of ballots unaccounted for and vulnerable to tampering."

President Trump has begun pushing a false argument that has circulated among conservatives for years — that voting by mail is a recipe for fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html

 

During an election security briefing Wednesday, FBI officials made what should have been an unremarkable statement: They've seen no evidence of any foreign plot to counterfeit or forge mail ballots.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/28/906676695/ignoring-fbi-and-fellow-republicans-trump-continues-assault-on-mail-in-voting

 

“MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WILL BE PRINTED BY FOREIGN COUNTRIES,” resulting in a “RIGGED” election. Donald Trump

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/trumps-shaky-warning-about-counterfeit-mail-in-ballots/

 

Interesting reality check. Ouch.

 

[PatOngo]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Oh!..

And I thought the chief underminer of the mail in votes was the incumbent president of the United States..

It is so refreshing (and original) that it turns out to be the Russians once again.

I wonder if they'll get a result again this time? Is it just me or does America look a bit silly to others too?

[Mama Noodle]

34 minutes ago, webfact said:

Adam Schiff, the Democrat who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, said the bulletin validated his concern that Russia is seeking to "sow distrust in our democratic process."

Knew he was behind this when I read the headline. 

[Tug]

Hey now you know trump is only following orders and noodle Adam shifts job is to be a check and balance it’s how our system works ,he’s doing his job .more than I can say for trump no big surprise here the Russians and trump know the more votes cast the worse trump and his handlers have of repeating the same horrible outcome 

[Sujo]

50 minutes ago, Poet said:

Whatever ineffective dicking around they did with a tiny number of Facebooks ads in the run-up to the 2016 election, by now the Russians must be truly horrified to have once again become the American establishment's whipping boys every time they want to whip up public opinion in a certain direction.

Common sense suggests that the Russians are keeping well out of it this time, unlike the Chinese and Iranians who have a vested interest in getting Biden into power and returning to business as usual.

Russia is no superpower. Their economy is smaller than Italy's. That they keep getting trotted out by the Democrats as a sort of cold war boogeyman is an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

 

If any of this made it into a Russian news bulletin, it is actually accurate and newsworthy. Simply stating facts cannot be considered an attempt to subvert American democracy.

 

You better tell all the intelligence agencies they are wrong.

[Poet]

36 minutes ago, Sujo said:

You better tell all the intelligence agencies they are wrong.

If you read their latest reports you will see that, for this election, they are far more worried about Chinese and Iranian interference.

The Russians run all sorts of nasty little online ops but are not particularly effective and the elites were badly damaged by the backlash to 2016. All the top people had their offshore assets frozen and their ability to conduct business internationally seriously curtailed. They might prefer to see Trump in power, mainly because Hillary was all fired up to go to war with anyone other than ISIS, but they got no particular advantage out of having him there for the past 4 years.

The Chinese and the Iranians, on the other had, face an existential challenge if Trump remains in place. The Chinese have been pumping money into the campaigns of Democrat politicians via proxy companies for years. Famously, in 2016, Hillary's campaign worried that accepting a particularly big donation that they knew to be secretly Chinese might backfire, but the campaign chief, Kamala Harris, said, to Hell with it, take the money. Biden has already stated his policy to return to normal relations with China, so, for them, Trillions are at stake. China's cyber capability makes Russia look like a bunch of script kiddies.

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Poet

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

If you read their latest reports you will see that, for this election, they are far more worried about Chinese and Iranian interference.

The Russians run all sorts of nasty little online ops but are not particularly effective and the elites were badly damaged by the backlash to 2016. All the top people had their offshore assets frozen and their ability to conduct business internationally seriously curtailed. They might prefer to see Trump in power, mainly because Hillary was all fired up to go to war with anyone other than ISIS, but they got no particular advantage out of having him there for the past 4 years.

The Chinese and the Iranians, on the other had, face an existential challenge if Trump remains in place. The Chinese have been pumping money into the campaigns of Democrat politicians via proxy companies for years. Famously, in 2016, Hillary's campaign worried that accepting a particularly big donation that they knew to be secretly Chinese might backfire, but the campaign chief, Kamala Harris, said, to Hell with it, take the money. Biden has already stated his policy to return to normal relations with China, so, for them, Trillions are at stake. China's cyber capability makes Russia look like a bunch of script kiddies.

 

The best that I can come up with as regards to political donors related to the China is this link.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/political-donors-linked-to-china-won-access-to-trump-gop-11592925569

[Poet]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The best that I can come up with as regards to political donors related to the China is this link.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/political-donors-linked-to-china-won-access-to-trump-gop-11592925569

Interesting article, thank you.

The report I was thinking of was by William Evanina, the US intelligence community's top election security official. It was covered by all the usual news source, here is the BBC's take:

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53702872

With regard to donations, I cannot find a specific article right now but the general gist is that, over the past decade or so, both the Chinese government, Chinese companies, and private Chinese citizens have been on a buying spree, deploying some of the dollars they have built up over the past few decades. There is nothing wrong with a Chinese-owned or part-owned company donating to an electoral candidate, especially if the candidate declares it, but it can be tricky if it turns on that the ultimate owner of the entity is the Chinese military or something like that.

As your article shows, the Chinese made a valiant effort after the election to buy Trumps favor, but the current thinking is that they see him as far too unpredictable, they would like to return to the previous cosy arrangement.

 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Poet said:

Interesting article, thank you.

The report I was thinking of was by William Evanina, the US intelligence community's top election security official. It was covered by all the usual news source, here is the BBC's take:

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53702872

With regard to donations, I cannot find a specific article right now but the general gist is that, over the past decade or so, both the Chinese government, Chinese companies, and private Chinese citizens have been on a buying spree, deploying some of the dollars they have built up over the past few decades. There is nothing wrong with a Chinese-owned or part-owned company donating to an electoral candidate, especially if the candidate declares it, but it can be tricky if it turns on that the ultimate owner of the entity is the Chinese military or something like that.

As your article shows, the Chinese made a valiant effort after the election to buy Trumps favor, but the current thinking is that they see him as far too unpredictable, they would like to return to the previous cosy arrangement.

 

You were making claims you can't proof or link to.

[Poet]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You were making claims you can't proof or link to.

If you need me to search Google for you, my research fee is $100 per hour.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Poet said:

If you need me to search Google for you, my research fee is $100 per hour.

Make claims, proof or link to them. Standard forum etiquette.

[Scott]

An off-topic, baiting post reported and removed.  

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Poet said:

Whatever ineffective dicking around they did with a tiny number of Facebooks ads in the run-up to the 2016 election, by now the Russians must be truly horrified to have once again become the American establishment's whipping boys every time they want to whip up public opinion in a certain direction.

Common sense suggests that the Russians are keeping well out of it this time, unlike the Chinese and Iranians who have a vested interest in getting Biden into power and returning to business as usual.

Russia is no superpower. Their economy is smaller than Italy's. That they keep getting trotted out by the Democrats as a sort of cold war boogeyman is an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

 

If any of this made it into a Russian news bulletin, it is actually accurate and newsworthy. Simply stating facts cannot be considered an attempt to subvert American democracy.

 

 

I'd venture that "common sense" as practiced by everyday people, is not very central to how countries are run, international power plays engaged, and authoritative leaders operate.

 

Russia might not be a superpower in your eyes, but regardless, it is a very formidable foe. USA agencies and assessment bodies do not see it as a none-issue, or as not posing a threat to the USA.

 

From Russia's point of view, regardless of what one thinks about collusion and interventions, Trump is probably a better option as POTUS. Other than not being particularly hard on Russia (putting it mildly), he contributes a whole lot for USA international standing being eroded. That might not be a thing for Trump supporters, but it is for Russia. Similarly, while not the original cause of divisions, Trump definitely plays a part making them worse. A weaker, more divided America is not something Russia would shed a tear for.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Poet said:

If you read their latest reports you will see that, for this election, they are far more worried about Chinese and Iranian interference.

The Russians run all sorts of nasty little online ops but are not particularly effective and the elites were badly damaged by the backlash to 2016. All the top people had their offshore assets frozen and their ability to conduct business internationally seriously curtailed. They might prefer to see Trump in power, mainly because Hillary was all fired up to go to war with anyone other than ISIS, but they got no particular advantage out of having him there for the past 4 years.

The Chinese and the Iranians, on the other had, face an existential challenge if Trump remains in place. The Chinese have been pumping money into the campaigns of Democrat politicians via proxy companies for years. Famously, in 2016, Hillary's campaign worried that accepting a particularly big donation that they knew to be secretly Chinese might backfire, but the campaign chief, Kamala Harris, said, to Hell with it, take the money. Biden has already stated his policy to return to normal relations with China, so, for them, Trillions are at stake. China's cyber capability makes Russia look like a bunch of script kiddies.

 

 

I think you're either wrong or trying to mislead. There was plenty of commentary, citing reports and assessments on these matters, what with elections coming up. I do not recall the threat from Russia relegated to the backseat, but rather an emphasis that other forces (the PRC, and to a lesser plausibility and degree, Iran) are at it as well. Russia's efforts were generally seen as pro-Trump, anti-Biden, while the PRC's push was opposite.

 

Those familiar with posters often commenting in line with either country's interests may have discerned such trends for a while now.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

While back in the US, Trump

is encouraging his supporters to commit the crime of voting twice, once by mail and also to vote in person.

 

Incitement to commit electoral fraud in plain sight.

 

[Opl]

18 minutes ago, Morch said:

he contributes a whole lot for USA international standing being eroded.

Trump followers - so nearly 40% of the Americans voters - really don't care what the rest of the world think,

America's credibility on the world stage is totally linked to Trump's one and his re-election wouldn't even be a surprise,   

Edited September 4, 2020 by Opl

[Poet]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

I think you're either wrong or trying to mislead.

In what sense am I trying to mislead you?

That strikes me as a rather hysterical reaction to a fairly standard discussion.

Whatever motivations Russia may have in either direction, the motivations of the Chinese are far greater. Trump is a massive threat to their current economic model, and the CCP's hold on their people is deeply intertwined with their ability to continue delivering growth. Biden has promised a return to business as usual. The future of the CCP regime could depend on that simple difference.

Whatever capabilities or resources Russia may have, China's capabilities and resources are far greater. Russia, a country overly dependent on oil at a time when the price of oil is depressed, has an economy smaller than Italy's. China has ten times the population and almost ten times the GDP of Russia.

There is nothing controversial about those facts and observations. The consequences for the money-driven American polity should be obvious to anyone of any political persuasion. That is was more convenient, in the immediate aftermath of Hillary's loss, for the Democrats to build the Russians up as a mechanism to delegitimize Trump's win, should not blind you to the relative threat posed by each country.

It may not be what you are accustomed to hearing, but there is nothing misleading there. Quite the contrary, it is a reality that the people spurting propaganda about Russia understand all too well.

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Poet said:

If you read their latest reports you will see that, for this election, they are far more worried about Chinese and Iranian interference.

The Russians run all sorts of nasty little online ops but are not particularly effective and the elites were badly damaged by the backlash to 2016. All the top people had their offshore assets frozen and their ability to conduct business internationally seriously curtailed. They might prefer to see Trump in power, mainly because Hillary was all fired up to go to war with anyone other than ISIS, but they got no particular advantage out of having him there for the past 4 years.

The Chinese and the Iranians, on the other had, face an existential challenge if Trump remains in place. The Chinese have been pumping money into the campaigns of Democrat politicians via proxy companies for years. Famously, in 2016, Hillary's campaign worried that accepting a particularly big donation that they knew to be secretly Chinese might backfire, but the campaign chief, Kamala Harris, said, to Hell with it, take the money. Biden has already stated his policy to return to normal relations with China, so, for them, Trillions are at stake. China's cyber capability makes Russia look like a bunch of script kiddies.

 

I don't believe you.

 

I may believe you if you reference the intelligence reports you are referring to and identify where that state that Chinese and Iranian interference is more of a threat that Russian.

 

Also, how about credible reference about your claims regarding Chinese pumping money into Democratic campaigns?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

Interesting article, thank you.

The report I was thinking of was by William Evanina, the US intelligence community's top election security official. It was covered by all the usual news source, here is the BBC's take:

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53702872

With regard to donations, I cannot find a specific article right now but the general gist is that, over the past decade or so, both the Chinese government, Chinese companies, and private Chinese citizens have been on a buying spree, deploying some of the dollars they have built up over the past few decades. There is nothing wrong with a Chinese-owned or part-owned company donating to an electoral candidate, especially if the candidate declares it, but it can be tricky if it turns on that the ultimate owner of the entity is the Chinese military or something like that.

As your article shows, the Chinese made a valiant effort after the election to buy Trumps favor, but the current thinking is that they see him as far too unpredictable, they would like to return to the previous cosy arrangement.

 

Nothing in your link showing intelligence agencies consider China and Iran are a greater threat to the election than Russia, and you can not back up your claim about the Chinese funding Democratic candidates.  I'm not surprised.

[heybruce]

45 minutes ago, Poet said:

In what sense am I trying to mislead you?

That strikes me as a rather hysterical reaction to a fairly standard discussion.

Whatever motivations Russia may have in either direction, the motivations of the Chinese are far greater. Trump is a massive threat to their current economic model, and the CCP's hold on their people is deeply intertwined with their ability to continue delivering growth. Biden has promised a return to business as usual. The future of the CCP regime could depend on that simple difference.

Whatever capabilities or resources Russia may have, China's capabilities and resources are far greater. Russia, a country overly dependent on oil at a time when the price of oil is depressed, has an economy smaller than Italy's. China has ten times the population and almost ten times the GDP of Russia.

There is nothing controversial about those facts and observations. The consequences for the money-driven American polity should be obvious to anyone of any political persuasion. That is was more convenient, in the immediate aftermath of Hillary's loss, for the Democrats to build the Russians up as a mechanism to delegitimize Trump's win, should not blind you to the relative threat posed by each country.

It may not be what you are accustomed to hearing, but there is nothing misleading there. Quite the contrary, it is a reality that the people spurting propaganda about Russia understand all too well.
 

Biden has not promised "a return to business as usual" regarding China. 

 

China has no reason to favor one candidate over the other; Trump is more unpredictable but more transactional, he can be bought with promises of Chinese purchases of US products or investment.  Biden is more predictable but more of an internationalist who will work with other nations in containing China.  China has no reason to favor either.

Edited September 4, 2020 by heybruce

[Poet]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Nothing in your link showing intelligence agencies consider China and Iran are a greater threat to the election than Russia

Maybe try reading the article, then consider the motivations of each country, how much each might have to lose depending on who wins, and then round off your intellectual journey by thinking about the relative money, power, and ability of each country.

Do a little bloody work, then you can tell us all what a huge threat Russia is to American democracy.
 

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, Poet said:

Maybe try reading the article, then consider the motivations of each country, how much each might have to lose depending on who wins, and then round off your intellectual journey by thinking about the relative money, power, and ability of each country.

Do a little bloody work, then you can tell us all what a huge threat Russia is to American democracy.
 

I read the article, and quite a few others.  There is nothing showing that China or Iran are greater threats to the US election than Russia.  There is nothing that shows any country has the equivalent of Russia's Internet Research Agency (troll farm) and as much experience undermining confidence in democracy as Russia.

 

1 minute ago, Poet said:

Well, cupcake, I'll just have to live with that.

I guess you will, because you clearly can't come up with credible sources to back up your claims.

[Dumbastheycome]

IMO the primary threat to the USA's fragile democracy is internal. That competing  autocracies take advantage of that is of no surprise or should be of no surprise.

Trump and his administration have accelerated the inequalities that are the by product of preferential corporatised capitalism.

In what presents as a last ditch stand for maximized profiteering the US is devolving into a version of autocratic dictate and in doing so is presenting not so dissimilar to the Nations it decries.

 

 

 

 

[simple1]

41 minutes ago, Poet said:

<SNIP>Whatever motivations Russia may have in either direction, the motivations of the Chinese are far greater. Trump is a massive threat to their current economic model, and the CCP's hold on their people is deeply intertwined with their ability to continue delivering growth. Biden has promised a return to business as usual. The future of the CCP regime could depend on that simple difference.

Whatever capabilities or resources Russia may have, China's capabilities and resources are far greater. Russia, a country overly dependent on oil at a time when the price of oil is depressed, has an economy smaller than Italy's. China has ten times the population and almost ten times the GDP of Russia.

There is nothing controversial about those facts and observations. The consequences for the money-driven American polity should be obvious to anyone of any political persuasion. That is was more convenient, in the immediate aftermath of Hillary's loss, for the Democrats to build the Russians up as a mechanism to delegitimize Trump's win, should not blind you to the relative threat posed by each country.

SNIP>

 

trump's trade war with PRC to date has been ineffective and actually has cost the US tax payer billions. . The next move proposed by trump has been to sever trade relations with PRC, a move that likely would be more damaging to trump's US with increased unemployment and so on. Bidden has not committed to BAU, but a more realistic engagement. Personally, I do not see trump's attempts at bullying PRC the way forward, PRC are a lot tougher than trump e.g. trump's failures over H.K. An overview of Biden's potential approaches below.

 

https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/team-bidens-policies-on-china-and-taiwan/

 

Russia is an ongoing threat to NATO (ergo USA) as well as the West in general with its ongoing efforts to erode democratic governments, as well as by supporting far right movements in the EU. trump's intransigence to credit the threat represented by Russia, apparently due to his narcissism, paralleled by discrediting all of his intelligence agencies advice concerning Russian intelligence activities to try and disrupt elections in the US, cannot be dismissed.

[Eric Loh]

Almost funny to say that the biggest entity undermining mail-in voting is actually Trump. Enemy within and threat to democracy as “Dumbastheycome” implied.

[Nout]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

Hey now you know trump is only following orders and noodle Adam shifts job is to be a check and balance it’s how our system works ,he’s doing his job .more than I can say for trump no big surprise here the Russians and trump know the more votes cast the worse trump and his handlers have of repeating the same horrible outcome 

I find this incomprehensible. What's with the weird pronunciation and what is a noodle?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Poet said:

In what sense am I trying to mislead you?

That strikes me as a rather hysterical reaction to a fairly standard discussion.

Whatever motivations Russia may have in either direction, the motivations of the Chinese are far greater. Trump is a massive threat to their current economic model, and the CCP's hold on their people is deeply intertwined with their ability to continue delivering growth. Biden has promised a return to business as usual. The future of the CCP regime could depend on that simple difference.

Whatever capabilities or resources Russia may have, China's capabilities and resources are far greater. Russia, a country overly dependent on oil at a time when the price of oil is depressed, has an economy smaller than Italy's. China has ten times the population and almost ten times the GDP of Russia.

There is nothing controversial about those facts and observations. The consequences for the money-driven American polity should be obvious to anyone of any political persuasion. That is was more convenient, in the immediate aftermath of Hillary's loss, for the Democrats to build the Russians up as a mechanism to delegitimize Trump's win, should not blind you to the relative threat posed by each country.

It may not be what you are accustomed to hearing, but there is nothing misleading there. Quite the contrary, it is a reality that the people spurting propaganda about Russia understand all too well.

 

 

I wasn't saying anything about misleading me personally. Seeing right through you. You're trying to mislead in general, and that's quite obvious.

 

You're heavily trying to distract from Russia's efforts at intervention and paint a picture where the main, if not sole, threat is posed by the PRC (never mind the Iran nonsense). Much of the waffle above is not supported by fact, and does not conform with many assessments by the various USA agencies charged with such issues.

 

Other posters, often posting in a way more aligned with the PRC's interest, do the same, in reverse.