Pension Life Certificates

[theoldgit]

Whilst I suspect the sending of "Life Certificates" by the DWP is not really a Consular issue, you will be aware that this annual round of sending them to State Pensioners, via a Dutch discount mail company, can result in pensions being suspended if certificates are not returned, even if the pensioner hasn't actually received the certificate for completion.

 

I for one am still waiting for the certificate that was allegedly sent to me in 2019 to be deliverd, as I am for the certificate that was sent to me in early August. Thankfully with the advent of expat forums, like Thaivisa.com, expat pensioners are aware that forms are being "randomly" sent, so have no option but to contact Newcastle by telephone to ascertain if we are on this years "random list". I did call and a very pleasant lady confirmed that a certificate had been sent, she sent me a blank certificate by email, which I must return by mail, we agreed to speak again next year.

 

I fully appreciate the need to ascertain that pensioners are still alive, as a taxpayer I'm glad that checks are carried out with due dilligence, but there surely must be a more effective way of carrying out this task.

 

I'm allowed to return my Civil Service Pension certificate of entitlement by email, though I still have to call to check if one has been sent, I'm allowed to register to vote in the UK online, I can send proof of my current address to my Jersey bank visa email, and can communicate with HMRC online or via their App, and there are many more companies who are encompassing the digital age, whilst ensuring their systems are secure.

 

The young lady I spoke to in Newcastle confirmed that DWP were aware of this problem, she admitted to receiving numerous calls a day on the subject from a number of countries, but she wasn't aware of any plans to address the issue.

 

Maybe if requests could be sent out via tracked email, the DWP would know that the certificate has reached the intended pensioner, that might actually be cheaper and negate the need for pensioner, like myself, needing to call the DWP, costing time and money, and freeing up DWP staff to concentrate on "proper work".

 

As I say it's not really a Consulate issue, but maybe your ex DWP senior Consular Officer could direct our concerns to the approprate person.

 

Thank you for your time 

[Henryford]

I don't think these forms are "random". I have just received my 3rd form in 2 years and i have only been retired for 2 years. I work on the basis that i will get one at least every year and send one back whether they ask or not. They are clearly out to get any pensioner who dares to live abroad.

[BritManToo]

36 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I don't think these forms are "random". I have just received my 3rd form in 2 years and i have only been retired for 2 years. I work on the basis that i will get one at least every year and send one back whether they ask or not. They are clearly out to get any pensioner who dares to live abroad.

They're only sent to pensioners living abroad, UK pensioners living in the UK never get them.

If you hadn't told them you were living overseas, you wouldn't be getting them either.

[hotandsticky]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They're only sent to pensioners living abroad, UK pensioners living in the UK never get them.

If you hadn't told them you were living overseas, you wouldn't be getting them either.

 

Just a slight correction,....... a friend WAS sent a life certificate in the UK.

 

Whilst he claimed his state pension from Thailand he returned to the UK within 12 months and advised a UK address. When he later returned to Thailand he did not advise DWP. He received a couple of years' increases before a life certificate was sent to the UK address where DWP believed him to be living. His family member had moved and no one thought to inform DWP....his pension was stopped. Quickly reinstated on the back of a phone call and he then confirmed that he was going to live in Thailand full time - pension duly frozen.

 

 

I can only assume that if you have advised an overseas address at any time you will be 'in the system' for regular life certificates - irrespective of your current address..

 

[Jesse123]

I have residence in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.  I get a life cert annually. As I spend 5 months a year in Thailand it is a lottery when the letter comes from Newcastle. Anyway, no problem this year as I cannot get to Thailand. 

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, Jesse123 said:

I have residence in a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK.  I get a life cert annually. As I spend 5 months a year in Thailand it is a lottery when the letter comes from Newcastle. Anyway, no problem this year as I cannot get to Thailand. 

 

 

The letter actually comes from Holland.

[Tony M]

I have just received my Life Certificate letter, posted from Spring Global Mail, UK, via Laksi Post Office, Bangkok. It is the second one I have received in 10 years in Thailand.

 

There must be an easier way of doing this. I do a self-assessment tax return every year. Why can't "joined-up" government recognise that if I am paying tax, and sending HMRC a tax return each year, it is more likely than not that I am still breathing.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, Tony M said:

I have just received my Life Certificate letter, posted from Spring Global Mail, UK, via Laksi Post Office, Bangkok. It is the second one I have received in 10 years in Thailand.

 

There must be an easier way of doing this. I do a self-assessment tax return every year. Why can't "joined-up" government recognise that if I am paying tax, and sending HMRC a tax return each year, it is more likely than not that I am still breathing.

 

 

Online registration. Annual access and reporting via secure password should suffice.

[chilly07]

Exactly! I have just completed my tax return and it should be possible for DWP to check as well as using email to confirm just like my other pension providers. Also the tone in the request is pergorative unlike the polite requests from my other providers.

[DPKANKAN]

10 minutes ago, Tony M said:

I have just received my Life Certificate letter, posted from Spring Global Mail, UK, via Laksi Post Office, Bangkok. It is the second one I have received in 10 years in Thailand.

 

There must be an easier way of doing this. I do a self-assessment tax return every year. Why can't "joined-up" government recognise that if I am paying tax, and sending HMRC a tax return each year, it is more likely than not that I am still breathing.

Yeah I just got one 3 days ago. Took a month to arrive from the letter date. Could be easier ways to do it if that and many other systems were thought about properly!! ????????????????

[robertson468]

48 minutes ago, Tony M said:

I have just received my Life Certificate letter, posted from Spring Global Mail, UK, via Laksi Post Office, Bangkok. It is the second one I have received in 10 years in Thailand.

 

There must be an easier way of doing this. I do a self-assessment tax return every year. Why can't "joined-up" government recognise that if I am paying tax, and sending HMRC a tax return each year, it is more likely than not that I am still breathing.

I received a request for a Life Certificate last year and was then sent a reminder to submit it within a given period of time, I was then sent another reminder and warned that if I did not comply my Pension would be stopped.  I had in fact sent the form within 6 days of receipt and fortunately sent it by "to be signed for" with a tracking number, equivalent to UK Recorded Deliver.  I emailed to say that it had been sent and gave them the tracking number, which I had also checked, which advised me had been delivered.  I Informed them of this and shortly after received another reminder dated after the date my Certificate had been delivered.  After two very irate emails from me, they conceded that they had in fact received the Certificate on the date shown on the Tracking Record.  Don't trust them and make sure you use the "to be signed for" system and keep hold of your tracking code.

[NorfolkBoy]

They are not sent every year. I have been recievibg the State Pension here in Thailnd for 10 years. As far as I can check this is only the third Life Certificate I have had to complete

[George Aylesham]

Slightly off topic but I got mine signed and stamped yesterday by my condo juristic person - not charged.

[TigerandDog]

Australia has adopted a similar practice for pensioners 80 years of age and older, to be completed annually.  However IMHO it is a total waste of time. It is obvious that the British & Aussie govts haven't done their homework. If they had done so they would have ascertained that for pensioners living full time outside of the home countries, that when an expat passes in a foreign country, e.g. Thailand, that part of the process is for the expat's Embassy to be notified by the relevant Thai govt dept ( usually Immigration ) that the expat has passed away. The Embassy then passes that information on to the Immigration Dept of the expat's home country who log it in their databases and that then feeds through to the home country govt dept that pays the pensions. So using Oz as an example, when I pass, the local authorities issue a death certificate in Thai. It gets translated to english.  The local District Office notify Thai Immigration and provide them with a copy of the death certificate in english & Thai. The english copy would then be sent to the Oz embassy. The Oz embassy enters this into their database together with passport number and it is in turn uploaded to the OZ Immigration database. Oz Immigration cancel the passport with an explanation of death as the reason for cancellation and that then automatically transfers to the Centrelink database with D O D and pension payments are stopped from that date. The other thing filling out forms and submitting through the mail does not take into account is the length of time it takes for the forms in the post. From Oz 6 weeks to reach Thailand and another 6 to reach OZ. That would mean pension being frozen for 12 weeks, which is 3 pension payments. Typical beurocratic incomptetnce if you ask me.  

[Surasak]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They're only sent to pensioners living abroad, UK pensioners living in the UK never get them.

If you hadn't told them you were living overseas, you wouldn't be getting them either.

If one does as you suggest, by not informing the DWP you live abroad, you must by definition, be committing an act of fraud. I think we all know it is done by some, but if found out, it could be very expensive.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Surasak said:

If one does as you suggest, by not informing the DWP you live abroad, you must by definition, be committing an act of fraud. I think we all know it is done by some, but if found out, it could be very expensive.

Yep, the form clearly states that fact, but chancers will chance it............????

 

[Max69xl]

6 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

Just a slight correction,....... a friend WAS sent a life certificate in the UK.

 

Whilst he claimed his state pension from Thailand he returned to the UK within 12 months and advised a UK address. When he later returned to Thailand he did not advise DWP. He received a couple of years' increases before a life certificate was sent to the UK address where DWP believed him to be living. His family member had moved and no one thought to inform DWP....his pension was stopped. Quickly reinstated on the back of a phone call and he then confirmed that he was going to live in Thailand full time - pension duly frozen.

 

 

I can only assume that if you have advised an overseas address at any time you will be 'in the system' for regular life certificates - irrespective of your current address..

 

If you actually live in the UK and have an official address, you won't get any proof of life certificate sent to you. Living abroad is another story and it's the same procedure in most European countries. 

[izod10]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

If one does as you suggest, by not informing the DWP you live abroad, you must by definition, be committing an act of fraud. I think we all know it is done by some, but if found out, it could be very expensive.

For whom exactly?..the frozen one, obviously   And your definition of "fraud" if you could define it  Thank You

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Henryford said:

I don't think these forms are "random". I have just received my 3rd form in 2 years and i have only been retired for 2 years. I work on the basis that i will get one at least every year and send one back whether they ask or not. They are clearly out to get any pensioner who dares to live abroad.

I have been retired for 11 years and this will be my second letter from the DWP (the first was 2 years ago). It took just over 1 month to get to me and I have 16 weeks from the date of of the letter (3rd August).

 

I will go to the local state hospital next week and one of the doctors there will sign and stamp it for me, after which I will come home and scan the completed form and post the original off. I will then check with the DWP after a month to see if they have recieved it.

 

And, NO, they are not out to get any pensioner living abroad. Sorry to dispel your theory.

[izod10]

People living in the UK will receive a Life Form too,if living in an unsettled abode,not receiving/or returned correspondence from a previous address

[Andycoops]

It is not only the government who do this.

Last month I got a form 'attestation' from my UK pension provider which was sent airmail but still took 1 month to arrive.

[Farang99]

I have just received my "Life Certificate" - posting date 3/8/2020, received 3/9/2020 - a month later. If that's is now normal it is entirely possible that the completed form will not be delivered to DWP in time. My work pension also requires these certificates, but says do not mail the completed document - just scan and email it. A much more sensible approach allowing for the foibles of international and Thai mail.

[Farang99]

10 hours ago, billd766 said:

I have been retired for 11 years and this will be my second letter from the DWP (the first was 2 years ago). It took just over 1 month to get to me and I have 16 weeks from the date of of the letter (3rd August).

 

I will go to the local state hospital next week and one of the doctors there will sign and stamp it for me, after which I will come home and scan the completed form and post the original off. I will then check with the DWP after a month to see if they have recieved it.

 

And, NO, they are not out to get any pensioner living abroad. Sorry to dispel your theory.

I saw no option to scan and email in the documents I received, and there is no email address given.

[hotandsticky]

12 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you actually live in the UK and have an official address, you won't get any proof of life certificate sent to you. Living abroad is another story and it's the same procedure in most European countries. 

 

 

Incorrect. Read my post again.

 

 

DWP believed my friend to be living in the UK.

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, Farang99 said:

I saw no option to scan and email in the documents I received, and there is no email address given.

 

 

The email address that I have used is [email protected]

 

However, that is changing:-

 

Thank you for your email.

DWP email addresses are changing and @dwp.gsi.gov.uk email addresses will soon cease to exist.

All future emails should be addressed @dwp.gov.uk. Please update any records you have.

If your email was sent to a valid email address, it has been redirected, so you do not need to send it again.

For further information refer to : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/goodbye-gsi-dwp-email-addresses-are-changing

[crazykopite]

I have never had one and I’m coming up to my 7O th year and I’ve been living at the same address since collecting my pension . I have the HMRC app on my iPad so they always keep me up to date regarding tax changes or if I have underpaid any taxes for that year . I think since retiring from the military nearly 30 years ago of which I get a pension I was only contacted once .My OAP is frozen as I have told them where I live and not given then some fictitious address in the U.K. Now that I am aware of this Life Certificate I will give them a call next week. I do receive each year hard copies of my P60s which arrive end of May. It would be interesting to know if any pensioner has ever had their pension stopped for not returning the life certificate it seems to me to be an utter waste of taxpayers money spending £1,000s chasing pensioners to check if they are alive .

[hotandsticky]

12 hours ago, izod10 said:

For whom exactly?..the frozen one, obviously   And your definition of "fraud" if you could define it  Thank You

 

 

I presume that you would accept "false declaration" as a more accurate phrase to describe someone claiming from Thailand but quoting a UK address.

 

Someone claiming in the UK and subsequently moving to Thailand would arguably be stretching it to claim 'over-sight' - but I doubt they would ever face legal action for whatever 'crime' they may have committed

[brianthainess]

All very interesting, now will someone tell the Thai post to deliver my mail nothing, Nano, zilch, since Dec 2019. they just ignore me when i tell them.

[WildBillHiccup]

Posted mine yesterday.

Was told that because of the virus it is taking 4 - 6 weeks. 

[izod10]

36 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I presume that you would accept "false declaration" as a more accurate phrase to describe someone claiming from Thailand but quoting a UK address.

 

Someone claiming in the UK and subsequently moving to Thailand would arguably be stretching it to claim 'over-sight' - but I doubt they would ever face legal action for whatever 'crime' they may have committed

Correct,..and correct again,or I would say no declaration+no Life Forms

 However I would say this thread is Life Forms,not of whatever imaginary "very expensive" nonsensical  garbage whatever  awaits 

Been retired now probably well over 20 odd years from public sector ,not one Life Form from them either

 

 

14 hours ago, Surasak said:

"If one does as you suggest, by not informing the DWP you live abroad, you must by definition, be committing an act of fraud. I think we all know it is done by some, but if found out, it could be very expensive."

I would look up the guidance notes DWP website,and stop putting this gibberish nonsense up,could the Green Eyed Monster be at work  LOL