Brexit back in crisis as UK threatens to undercut divorce pact

[evadgib]

Fortunately Boris knows whose turn it is to be Taoisearch this week:

Quote

The Prime Minister spoke with the Taoiseach this afternoon.

The leaders discussed the UK Internal Market Bill and the Prime Minister set out the rationale for the provisions related to the Northern Ireland Protocol.

The Prime Minister confirmed the UK’s commitment to implementing the Northern Ireland Protocol and the Joint Committee process. He hoped that an agreement would be possible within that framework. However, if an agreement was not reached, as a responsible government, we had to provide a safety net that removed any ambiguity and ensured that the government would always be able to deliver on its commitments to the people of Northern Ireland.

The leaders also spoke about the bilateral relationship and the Prime Minister reiterated his desire to strengthen ties and increase dialogue between the countries in the future.

PM call with Irish Taoiseach Micheál Martin: 9 September 2020

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

In Scotland the people are sovereign. Can we assume should the people choose to break the Act of Union, you will give us your full support?

The ???????????????????????????? are already looking into that.

49 was given a two week head start but failed to unearth the fine details.

HTH

Edited September 10, 2020 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, evadgib said:

49 was given a two week head start but failed to unearth the fine details.

In respect to?

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Becoming a 3th country is not so bright ....but risking to become a paryah state ......is the end ????

 

This an end quote from long article:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/09/brexit-bill-northern-ireland-criticised-as-obvious-breach-of-international-law

 

And in a statement yesterday, Pelosi said: “Whatever form it takes, Brexit cannot be allowed to imperil the Good Friday agreement, including the stability brought by the invisible and frictionless border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.

“The UK must respect the Northern Ireland protocol as signed with the EU to ensure the free flow of goods across the border.

“If the UK violates that international treaty and Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be absolutely no chance of a US-UK trade agreement passing the Congress.”

Pelosi is a fool. A senile old woman who needs to mind her own business, or preferably retire immediately.

 

She has enough problems in her own country without causing problems elsewhere. She should remember what happened when Obama made equally stupid and ill timed comments about Brexit (the British public support for Brexit skyrocketed).

[evadgib]

26 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

It is this government that want Zonal attachment. Nothing to do with bullying. 

Almost guaranteed whatever quotas are agreed the government will give them to whoever is the most profitable.

There is little point in UK fishing fleets catching stock that they cannot sell.

Prime example is when Fleetwood fishermen sold their quotas to the Spanish.

I remain of the opinion that full umbilical severance is in our long term interest; anything less will act like a bungee & drag us back in.

Edited September 10, 2020 by evadgib

[cleopatra2]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Fortunately Boris knows whose turn it is to be Taoisearch this week:

PM call with Irish Taoiseach Micheál Martin: 9 September 2020

Johnson must either be thick or incompetent.

The time to remove any ambiguities was at the point of negotiation before it being signed,  ratified and becoming a lawfully international treaty.

The IM as it stands is in breach of art 26, 27 of the Vienna Convention.

 

What a plonker

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

In respect to?

An event of historic significance that took place on his doorstep ???? 

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I remain of the opinion that full umbilical severance is in our long term interest; anything less will act like a bungee to drag us back in.

Any FTA require nation's to cede some sovereignty.

The idea of Sovereignty is that nation's are free to enter into agreements

 

If the fishermen have nowhere to sell their catch   there is no future for the industry.

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by cleopatra2

[crobe]

16 minutes ago, evadgib said:

They're ???????? waters that ???????? are protecting, not something ???????? can bully their way into plundering.

???????? never bothered with ????????'s waters (or ????????, ???????? etc) so why do they feel they can bully ???????? into rolling over?

Stop wrapping yourself in the union flag - Brexiteers are not interested in Britain they are English nationalists

If you want to use any flag then use St George.

 - The Tory party now has declining support in Scotland (7 out of 73 constituency seats in Scotland at the last assembly elections in 2016, only 6 out of 59 seats at the UK elections in 2019 and looking to be nearly wiped out next May)

 - The UK and then the Brexit parties have never gained any traction north of the border

 - The Tory party partners - the DUP - were sold down the river in order for Boris to get a commons majority for his Brexit withdrawal - which was the same as the Theresa May deal that the DUP campaigned against

 - the Brexiteers have openly stated that losing Scotland and breaking up the union is a price worth paying in order to achieve Brexit

 

The Brexiteers campaign on sovereignty and taking back control, except when the same argument is used by Scotland and then they are against it.

The English nationalist Brexiteers still have delusions of empire which is why, when claiming that they will now treat all immigration from the EU the same as from the rest of the world with no exceptions, and the end to the free movement of people, except of course for the Irish Republic on "historic" grounds. 

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Johnson must either be thick or incompetent.

The time to remove any ambiguities was at the point of negotiation before it being signed,  ratified and becoming a lawfully international treaty.

The IM as it stands is in breach of art 26, 27 of the Vienna Convention.

 

What a plonker

Jeff Taylor uploaded a clip explaining the situation yesterday.

(Content not Poster please if anyone bothers looking it up!)

Edited September 10, 2020 by evadgib

[evadgib]

9 minutes ago, crobe said:

Stop wrapping yourself in the union flag - Brexiteers are not interested in Britain they are English nationalists

If you want to use any flag then use St George.

 - The Tory party now has declining support in Scotland (7 out of 73 constituency seats in Scotland at the last assembly elections in 2016, only 6 out of 59 seats at the UK elections in 2019 and looking to be nearly wiped out next May)

 - The UK and then the Brexit parties have never gained any traction north of the border

 - The Tory party partners - the DUP - were sold down the river in order for Boris to get a commons majority for his Brexit withdrawal - which was the same as the Theresa May deal that the DUP campaigned against

 - the Brexiteers have openly stated that losing Scotland and breaking up the union is a price worth paying in order to achieve Brexit

 

The Brexiteers campaign on sovereignty and taking back control, except when the same argument is used by Scotland and then they are against it.

The English nationalist Brexiteers still have delusions of empire which is why, when claiming that they will now treat all immigration from the EU the same as from the rest of the world with no exceptions, and the end to the free movement of people, except of course for the Irish Republic on "historic" grounds. 

Thank you 49. How are you getting on with those details you have been looking for since the middle of August?

Edited September 10, 2020 by evadgib

[welovesundaysatspace]

44 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Come on this is rubbish.

Every FTA is different , because every nation's requirements are not the same.

Don’t forget you’re talking to business illiterates here, who neither have the knowledge nor any interest in such topics. As we have learned from these Brexiteers, if they had a business, they would:

 

(1) Give every supplier/customer the same business terms; 

 

(2) Tell their biggest business partner to pay double the price for half the service, otherwise they’d be happy to walk away since they’re buying five times the value from them than the other way round; 

(3) Instead groom that one customer that buys half a small fish every other year; and 

 

(4) Breach contracts because “as a sovereign“ company they have the right to do so. 

The good thing is they’re always a good source of entertainment when they’re making a fool of themselves. Now they won’t get a trade deal and will be known as frauds who breach agreements and international law, so it’ll get even more fun as their failing country is isolated and wrecked even further. 

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Jeff Taylor uploaded a clip explaining the situation yesterday.

(Content not Poster please if anyone bothers looking it up!)

Why don't you explain the content of the clip.

 

The bill as it stands violate international law.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Don’t forget you’re talking to business illiterates here, who neither have the knowledge nor any interest in such topics. As we have learned from these Brexiteers, if they had a business, they would:

 

(1) Give every supplier/customer the same business terms; 

 

(2) Tell their biggest business partner to pay double the price for half the service, otherwise they’d be happy to walk away since they’re buying five times the value from them than the other way round; 

(3) Instead groom that one customer that buys half a small fish every other year; and 

 

(4) Breach contracts because “as a sovereign“ company they have the right to do so. 

The good thing is they’re always a good source of entertainment when they’re making a fool of themselves. Now they won’t get a trade deal and will be known as frauds who breach agreements and international law, so it’ll get even more fun as their failing country is isolated and wrecked even further. 

I would like to bet if you were/are a businessman that the last person you would have working for you is Mr Barnier.

You: how much have you sold this month Michel.

Barnier: nothing.

You: brilliant, keep up the good work.????????????????

[Rookiescot]

[david555]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Pelosi is a fool. A senile old woman who needs to mind her own business, or preferably retire immediately.

 

She has enough problems in her own country without causing problems elsewhere. She should remember what happened when Obama made equally stupid and ill timed comments about Brexit (the British public support for Brexit skyrocketed).

You might be right ....but unfortunaly for Boris she sit on a very powerfull chair and her word is law in that congress....????

Just same as U.K .Boris has a 80 seats as "would be dictator" ???? who has comparable power ....but not in that Pelosi congress .....or in U.S.A !

 

"Borispower" ONLY in Westminster.

 

Boris is getting politic world against his treaty breaking .....he is driving himself into a ditch ????

[cleopatra2]

17 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Jeff Taylor uploaded a clip explaining the situation yesterday.

(Content not Poster please if anyone bothers looking it up!)

Have just looked at that clip.

Firstly the British Government AFAIK is not claiming this as reason.

 

Secondly if true , it just proves the point Johnson who agreed to such arrangements, and then limited Parliamentary Scrutiny must be incompetent to allow such a clause without guarantees or clarification.

 

Then we come to the Brexit MPs who voted for the WA without even looking at the contents.

 

I have no sympathy for the government , they have the full resources of the nation available to clarify any parts of the WA .

 

Plonkers

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Victornoir said:

Perfidious Albion.

A name that sounds like perfectly justified today.

Unfortunately true.

[welovesundaysatspace]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

I would like to bet if you were/are a businessman that the last person you would have working for you is Mr Barnier.

You: how much have you sold this month Michel.

Barnier: nothing.

You: brilliant, keep up the good work.????????????????

Mr. Barnier protects our biggest key account. If that means losing the small fish: be it. Not everyone is telling their sales man to protect the 0.1% market while losing the 50% market ???? 

 

[Rookiescot]

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Mr. Barnier protects our biggest key account. If that means losing the small fish: be it. Not everyone is telling their sales man to protect the 0.1% market while losing the 50% market ???? 

 

Barnier couldn't sell blood to Dracula, he couldn't negotiate his way out of a brown paper bag. And all of the EUs businesses are reliant on him, god help them.

[cleopatra2]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Barnier couldn't sell blood to Dracula, he couldn't negotiate his way out of a brown paper bag. And all of the EUs businesses are reliant on him, god help them.

Yet Johnson signed the WA

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Barnier couldn't sell blood to Dracula, he couldn't negotiate his way out of a brown paper bag. And all of the EUs businesses are reliant on him, god help them.

Yeah but according to you Brexiteers Barnier managed to sell Johnson a right pup of a deal ????

[david555]

(House of Lords coming in the game , a conservatives Lord say's....)

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-withdrawal-agreement-boris-johnson-eu-house-lords-b421181.html

Andrew Woodcock Political Editor @andywoodcock 1 hour ago

. Boris Johnson’s ‘unbelievable’ Brexit withdrawal agreement decision will be defeated in House of  Lords, says Lord Heseltine
. Gove to meet European Commission vice-president, as John Major warns of risk to UK’s reputation

 

 

Boris Johnson’s attempt to tear up his own Brexit withdrawal agreement is facing certain defeat in the House of Lords, Lord Heseltine has said.
The former deputy prime minister was the latest in a string of Conservative grandees to denounce the move, after Sir John Major joined Theresa May in warning that the prime minister risked forfeiting trust in Britain around the globe.

As the European Commission demanded urgent talks to discuss Mr Johnson’s plans, Sir John warned the UK risked losing “something beyond price that may never be regained”.

Meanwhile, Downing Street suggested that “ambiguities” in the text of the agreement’s protocol on Northern Ireland were left in the treaty because of Mr Johnson’s haste to meet his own self-imposed deadline to take the UK out of the EU.

 

more...

Edited September 10, 2020 by david555

[JonnyF]

52 minutes ago, vogie said:

I would like to bet if you were/are a businessman that the last person you would have working for you is Mr Barnier.

You: how much have you sold this month Michel.

Barnier: nothing.

You: brilliant, keep up the good work.????????????????

Hey Barnier, how's the deal coming along with that brilliant customer who buys all our stuff at higher prices than our competitors products? You know, the one you've been working on for 4 and a half years?

 

Barnier: Zer will be no deal. I 'ave over-reached and zey are standing up to my bullyboy tactics and zey 'ave realized I am a one trick pony. Sinze zat stupid old dancing woman rezigned I 'ave Nuthin. Nuthin.

 

Great job. You record of failure makes you favourite to succeed Juncker and Von Der Leyen.

[Nigel Garvie]

54 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah but according to you Brexiteers Barnier managed to sell Johnson a right pup of a deal ????

Johnson is famous for being uninterested in detail,  however it was his responsibility to have the WA thoroughly checked AT THE TIME, whoever he got to do it, he is the PM for heavens sake, he had the entire civil service at his beck and call. 

 

He signed the deal - it is part of international law - no point in trying to go back now and change it, that should have been attempted at the time if they wanted to. 

 

The sad whining from various Brexiteers here that the EU has not treated them fairly and thus the WA is void is beyond pathetic, and a pointless attempt to slide - like a slimy snake - out of the UKs obligations.

HE SIGNED IT! Full stop end of story. 

 

NOBODY LIKES TO DO DEALS WITH PEOPLE WHO CAN'T BE TRUSTED TO KEEP THEIR WORD. 

Our International reputation is being holed below the waterline.

 

Heaven knows how many more basic standards of International and domestic political decency have to be sacrificed to the great god Brexit. How much further down into the gutter are Boris and Co prepared to go to appease it. 

 

It now has that very worrying look about the whole situation that Cummings and his puppet have entered a mindless slash and burn stage. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Why should the UK get the same deal as any other nation, you ask. 

Is that not obvious,

No it's not and there is no reason to expect it to be so. The UK has gone from being an internal member (partner) to a geographically close, external competitor. Moreover, the EU is under no legal or moral obligation to offer a 'one size fits all' deal to whomever demands it.

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

 

why should Canada get all the benefits who has never been a member, yet the UK who has been a very consistant cash cow for 40+ years get as of yet nothing,

Completely irrelevant. See also above.

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

and Mr Barnier will only negotiate after we have given him all the fish that we possess.

Incorrect. M. Barnier is in London now for negotiations. He has laid out the EU's negotiating position. The UK is free to reject or table a revision. If  compromises can be reached which satisfy BOTH sides, great. If not, that's it. No deal. Isn't this how negotiations work?

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

So it was very kind of Barnier to say that we can have sovereignty over our waters, but we don't have any say who fishes them

And who fault is it that? Control over territorial waters is one thing, but if the fishing rights have been sold then it becomes a commercial matter. The attached link suggests that the problem is more to do with mismanagement by successive UK governments rather than being a function of the CFP

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/amp/

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

many would say, myself included the your negotiator is acting in very bad faith, now most people would recognise this, but followers of the EU idealogy are not most people I guess.

The bottom line is that it is this excuse for a government, led by Johnson, that has acted in 'bad faith'. It is becoming clear that it never had any intention of honouring the Withdrawal Agreement and has been looking for a way out in order to tear it up. 

 

Theresa May might have been incompetent, but I don't think she was dishonest or lacked morality. It's a shame that the same can't be said for the current incumbent of #10.

 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

No it's not and there is no reason to expect it to be so. The UK has gone from being an internal member (partner) to a geographically close, external competitor. Moreover, the EU is under no legal or moral obligation to offer a 'one size fits all' deal to whomever demands it.

 

Completely irrelevant. See also above.

 

Incorrect. M. Barnier is in London now for negotiations. He has laid out the EU's negotiating position. The UK is free to reject or table a revision. If  compromises can be reached which satisfy BOTH sides, great. If not, that's it. No deal. Isn't this how negotiations work?

 

And who fault is it that? Control over territorial waters is one thing, but if the fishing rights have been sold then it becomes a commercial matter. The attached link suggests that the problem is more to do with mismanagement by successive UK governments rather than being a function of the CFP

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/amp/

 

The bottom line is that it is this excuse for a government, led by Johnson, that has acted in 'bad faith'. It is becoming clear that it never had any intention of honouring the Withdrawal Agreement and has been looking for a way out in order to tear it up. 

 

Theresa May might have been incompetent, but I don't think she was dishonest or lacked morality. It's a shame that the same can't be said for the current incumbent of #10.

 

If Theresa May wanted to be honest then she should never have put her hat in the ring for PM after the referendum. That WA was basically written by the EU for the EU and she just strung along with it, hoping for a never-ending Brino. A remainer and totally useless to lead a serious withdrawal effort - perfect for the EU - she is the reason everything is even more screwed up now. 

[david555]

Bloomberg on the news about E.U. go take legal action …...and because GBP plummeting more .

(if video not open by himself ..must click on the black screen to open )

 

https://flipboard.com/video/bloomberg/c0b222b4f1

Edited September 10, 2020 by david555

[mike787]

come on and get it over with....