Brexit back in crisis as UK threatens to undercut divorce pact

[polpott]

Just now, david555 said:

a big number but not enough to win against him would already a nice symbolic gesture …. 

Remember the last time his own voted against him? The night of the long knives when they were all expelled from the party to be replaced by Boris groupies. Doubt they'll make the same mistake again.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

Remember the last time his own voted against him? The night of the long knives when they were all expelled from the party to be replaced by Boris groupies. Doubt they'll make the same mistake again.

And I thought & read they don't want to be slaves or vassals …..????

Edited September 9, 2020 by david555

[polpott]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

And I thought & read they don't want to be slaves or vassals …..????

All Brits are slaves and vassals except the Royal Family.

 

And Dominic Cummings, but he's probably the love child of Charles and Camilla. Or maybe one of those alien lizards that the Royal Family are descended from. He certainly looks like one.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by polpott

[david555]

14 minutes ago, polpott said:

Remember the last time his own voted against him? The night of the long knives when they were all expelled from the party to be replaced by Boris groupies. Doubt they'll make the same mistake again.

different attitude than those high ranked civil servants and ministers who resigned than , different breed probably …..

Proves some have guts ...????

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, polpott said:

Remember the last time his own voted against him? The night of the long knives when they were all expelled from the party to be replaced by Boris groupies. Doubt they'll make the same mistake again.

Exactly. It was about time someone cracked the whip.

 

Anyone who votes to support the EU against the UK in these negotiations will end up out in the cold, just like the last bunch of Europhile traitors did. Hopefully Thereasonous May votes against the government on this and gets expelled, it's about time she got her comeuppance for trying to over-ride the wishes of the British people with her BRINO, level playing field nonsense.

[polpott]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Exactly. It was about time someone cracked the whip.

 

Anyone who votes to support the EU against the UK in these negotiations will end up out in the cold, just like the last bunch of Europhile traitors did. Hopefully Thereasonous May votes against the government on this and gets expelled, it's about time she got her comeuppance for trying to over-ride the wishes of the British people with her BRINO, level playing field nonsense.

Unfortunately, the way things are heading, its going to be the UK who ends up out in the cold.

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/08/senior-tories-urge-ministers-to-scrap-illegal-brexit-rule-plan

Senior Tories urge ministers to scrap 'illegal' Brexit rule plan 
Government ignored legal advice over proposed withdrawal agreement changes

 

Jessica Elgot, Rajeev Syal and Daniel Boffey
Tue 8 Sep 2020 23.38 BST

 
Senior Conservative MPs and a raft of legal experts have urged the government not to go ahead with plans to drive through a change to the Brexit agreement on Northern Ireland after a minister conceded it would break international law.
The remarkable admission by Brandon Lewis, secretary of state for Northern Ireland, followed the resignation of the most senior legal civil servant and has raised questions over the future of justice secretary, Robert Buckland, and attorney general, Suella Braverman, both of whom have taken oaths to uphold the rule of law.
 

Edited September 9, 2020 by david555

[Rookiescot]

19 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Exactly. It was about time someone cracked the whip.

 

Anyone who votes to support the EU against the UK in these negotiations will end up out in the cold, just like the last bunch of Europhile traitors did. Hopefully Thereasonous May votes against the government on this and gets expelled, it's about time she got her comeuppance for trying to over-ride the wishes of the British people with her BRINO, level playing field nonsense.

Yes all dissenting voices should be expelled from the Conservative party. Only those of ideological purity should be allowed.

Kind of reminds me of North Korea or China. 

[3NUMBAS]

the changes are due to the EU not completeing on a trade deal as was the agreement so the withdrawal agreement is being tweaked to compensate for their not doing a trade deal..theres no crisis ,WTO rules beckon

 

NI question was used as an agressive tactic to force UK to remain effectively tied to the EU.The legalistic hydra that the 19th Century EU is is now seeking to use the WA to force UK into accepting level plyingfield etc. I can think of a whole list of socalled international agreements based on revenge and greed that should have been challenged at the time. I am with the government onthis one.

[david555]

32 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the changes are due to the EU not completeing on a trade deal as was the agreement so the withdrawal agreement is being tweaked to compensate for their not doing a trade deal..theres no crisis ,WTO rules beckon

 

NI question was used as an agressive tactic to force UK to remain effectively tied to the EU.The legalistic hydra that the 19th Century EU is is now seeking to use the WA to force UK into accepting level plyingfield etc. I can think of a whole list of socalled international agreements based on revenge and greed that should have been challenged at the time. I am with the government onthis one.

Any dispute as u mention in first part , finally comes to the E.C.J. who then will judge …. if it comes that far...If dispute  about this keeps existing , about breaking a law binding treaty , as already legal experts  urged U.K. not the risk  and  government to re-consider breaking international law , already admitted by U.K. gov.  

Edited September 9, 2020 by david555

[cleopatra2]

12 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the changes are due to the EU not completeing on a trade deal as was the agreement so the withdrawal agreement is being tweaked to compensate for their not doing a trade deal..theres no crisis ,WTO rules beckon

 

NI question was used as an agressive tactic to force UK to remain effectively tied to the EU.The legalistic hydra that the 19th Century EU is is now seeking to use the WA to force UK into accepting level plyingfield etc. I can think of a whole list of socalled international agreements based on revenge and greed that should have been challenged at the time. I am with the government onthis one.

The original NI protocol that Boris rejected was an insurance policy in the event of no FTA.

It was this government and specifically Boris who decided to renegotiate the protocol and make the Backstop the default position.

 

 

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/09/brexit-claim-boris-johnson-responding-to-barnier-threat-called-fake-news-

 

Daniel Boffey in Brussels 
Wed 9 Sep 2020 10.59 BST 

 

Brexit: claim Johnson responding to Barnier threat called 'fake news' 
MEP says she fears Brexiters are looking for a reason to blow up ongoing trade talks

A claim that Boris Johnson decided to breach international law after the EU had threatened to disrupt food exports from Britain to Northern Ireland has been condemned as “fake news”, amid growing outrage over the prime minister’s plans to renege on the withdrawal agreement.
Nathalie Loiseau, a former French minister for EU affairs, who sits on a committee of MEPs coordinating the European parliament’s position on trade talks with the UK, said she feared Brexiters were looking for a reason to blow up the current talks.

“Do you want us to lose patience and slam the door and leave?” she asked.

 

more...

Edited September 9, 2020 by david555

[Loiner]

So which bit of the WA is Boris going to undercut with sovereign UK legislation and why would he want to do that? Has the EU changed something changed since he agreed the WA?

There seems to be a lot of Euro & Remainer skirting around the issue, with squeals of bad faith and lies but no real substance from them. Could this be the real fake news to avoid losing face as little UK faces down the EU? Threats of international breaches and the ECJ are not going to wash much these days. Nathalie's idea of blowing up the talks is a bit extreme but not a bad idea really. 

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the changes are due to the EU not completeing on a trade deal as was the agreement so the withdrawal agreement is being tweaked to compensate for their not doing a trade deal..theres no crisis ,WTO rules beckon

 

NI question was used as an agressive tactic to force UK to remain effectively tied to the EU.The legalistic hydra that the 19th Century EU is is now seeking to use the WA to force UK into accepting level plyingfield etc. I can think of a whole list of socalled international agreements based on revenge and greed that should have been challenged at the time. I am with the government onthis one.

If the UK wants a trade deal then agree to the EU's terms.

This was always going to happen. The junior partner in a trade deal gets dictated to by the bigger party.

The UK did it for centuries. Now that the empire has gone its ironic that other counties and trading blocks will do it to us.

Of course none of this could have been foreseen could it. Its not like the remain campaign repeated ad nauseam that this would happen. We had all that covered because of "German car makers" and "They need us more than we need them".

 

Now the changes to the Withdrawal Agreement will be illegal. Johnson signed it. Its binding. He cant blame May for this one.

 

Did you know that in order to be a member of the WTO you have to pay a fee? Surely that undermines our sovereignty. Pesky Johnny Foreigners imposing rules and fees on us. 

[Bluespunk]

27 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So which bit of the WA is Boris going to undercut with sovereign UK legislation and why would he want to do that? Has the EU changed something changed since he agreed the WA?

There seems to be a lot of Euro & Remainer skirting around the issue, with squeals of bad faith and lies but no real substance from them. Could this be the real fake news to avoid losing face as little UK faces down the EU? Threats of international breaches and the ECJ are not going to wash much these days. Nathalie's idea of blowing up the talks is a bit extreme but not a bad idea really. 

Guess you missed the links in this thread referring to govt admission it is breaking international law and the resignation of the head of  the UK govts legal department.

 

How convenient.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/08/government-admits-new-brexit-bill-will-break-international-law

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54072347

 

https://www.law.com/international-edition/2020/09/08/uk-government-legal-department-head-resigns/?slreturn=20200809071906

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk
replaced paywall links

[Mavideol]

On 9/8/2020 at 12:08 PM, transam said:

And the waters still belong to the UK.....Yes/No...?

What happens regarding buying and selling rights in business is totally different, it is NOT taking away sovereign land or waters...????

when Scotland becomes independent UK fishing waters will be reduced to a minimum, thus no more complaining

[david555]

At 4 clock (U.K.) H.O.C. live about Boris his bill by Sky  just announced ,

 

and now PM questions live on Sky News 

Edited September 9, 2020 by david555

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Guess you missed the links in this thread referring to govt admission it is breaking international law and the resignation of the head of  the UK govts legal department.

 

How convenient.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/08/government-admits-new-brexit-bill-will-break-international-law

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a20e7822-468f-4671-8e82-9dc5b5f353d8

 

https://www.ft.com/content/6186bf1c-055b-4de6-a643-4eea763e1b94

 

 

Usual twisted anti-Brexit anti-Boris anti-UK from The Garuniad, and FT behind a paywall, so unless you have researched deeper Blue, what is the very specific and limited way? Is it important at all or is all this EU & Remainer flak? 

[izod10]

The UK have the EU over a barrel, just blockade Eire,EU will scream murder,cost EU a fortune,..likened to Dunkirk for its survival

[izod10]

21 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

when Scotland becomes independent UK fishing waters will be reduced to a minimum, thus no more complaining

In your dreams  Orkney /Shetland want no part of a tie up to Scotland,SNP nowhere near at elections

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, izod10 said:

In your dreams  Orkney /Shetland want no part of a tie up to Scotland,SNP nowhere near at elections

better get updated, have you seen the latest Scotish polls, they will be gone soon  or very soon and nobody else to blame then BJ and his gang

Edited September 9, 2020 by Mavideol

[Bluespunk]

tick tick tick

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54073836

Edited September 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[izod10]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

better get updated, have you seen the latest Scotish polls, they will be gone soon  or very soon and nobody else to blame then BJ and his gang

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says minister

Scotland secretary says if islands were to vote no but national vote was yes, it could become self-governing like Isle of Man

Think its you that needs updating  lol

[Alex80]

On 9/8/2020 at 4:22 AM, JonnyF said:

You appear to have missed the point again. You really do get confused a lot, I'm surprised you haven't worn out that Emoji by now.

 

I shall repeat, the EU is also ignoring the terms of the treaty by not respecting UK sovereignty.

 

Does insisting on full access to UK waters, insisting the UK abides by the level playing field (the rules of which the EU decides) and the UK agreeing on the European court of Justice for dispute settlement sound like UK sovereignty to you?

 

Not to mention acting in good faith.

 

So I repeat, it is the EU that is ignoring the terms. Maybe you should read up on International Treaties. You might find that BOTH SIDES have to abide by the rules.????

 

The EU started fighting dirty and in return got a massive elbow to the face. Now they are crying to the ref. Pathetic, yet entirely consistent with EU protocol.

It seems you don't know what you're talking about.

A trade deal must be profitable for everyone, not just UK. EU countries already had quotas (quotas, not "full access") on UK fishing grounds (and viceversa), so, EU ask them as counterpart in the trade deal. This is not bad faith or undermining UK sovereignty, it's a trade deal. Give something to get something.

[Loiner]

33 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Guess you missed the links in this thread referring to govt admission it is breaking international law and the resignation of the head of  the UK govts legal department.

 

How convenient.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/08/government-admits-new-brexit-bill-will-break-international-law

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-54072347

 

https://www.law.com/international-edition/2020/09/08/uk-government-legal-department-head-resigns/?slreturn=20200809071906

 

 

 

Some fairly significant editing there. Why not admit you screwed up first time round?
 

Lots of Remainer hysterics but short on real detail. Why don't they spell it out? What is the EU's change and why has Boris counteracted to it. 

 

 

 

[Loiner]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

tick tick tick

Miss, miss, miss?

[Sheryl]

Please keep it civil.

 

Stop baiting each other. Or all involved will find themselves on a posting holiday. 

 

 

[izod10]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

No, you were crying because of a paywall, which said as the exact thing as the posts i replaced them with.

 

Tick Tick Tick

You have been wrong on every aspect of Brexit right from the very beginning,being wrong countless times gives some sort impression.   Now eire is in deep poo poo,not that is was anything else, plenty of fertilizer for the spuds

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, izod10 said:

You have been wrong on every aspect of Brexit right from the very beginning,being wrong countless times gives some sort impression.   Now eire is in deep poo poo,not that is was anything else, plenty of fertilizer for the spuds

The facts are there...the govt has admitted it is breaking the law and the head of its legal department has quit.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

 

So explain to me, as if I hadn't understood what it's all about Why all the Remainer crying about something and nothing? Who is giving the fake complaint about fake news?

 

Come on, big boys in the big playground don't cry.

Something and nothing...when the head of your legal department quits because of what you are doing, that is a very real something...