U.S. judges reject Trump plan to exclude many immigrants from representation

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, olfu said:

Its look kinda strange--first millions cross the border illegally then suddenly they represented as citizens.

Of course it’s strange, it’s a myth.

[earlinclaifornia]

45 minutes ago, olfu said:

Its look kinda strange--first millions cross the border illegally then suddenly they represented as citizens.

Really??? Can you verify that in anyway?

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

I've almost zero interest in US politics.  But the idea of giving illegal immigrants representation when apportioning congressional seats seems totally barmy to me..... 

Only American citizens can vote for those representatives.

[Paul Catton]

How could any "illegal immigrant" have inclusion for representation? Surely they would be making themselves almost non-existent, flying under the radar to avoid detention and deportation.

 

[forehandplus]

21 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

How could any "illegal immigrant" have inclusion for representation? Surely they would be making themselves almost non-existent, flying under the radar to avoid detention and deportation.

 

Exactly. Why would they risk imprisonment and deportation?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Paul Catton said:

How could any "illegal immigrant" have inclusion for representation? Surely they would be making themselves almost non-existent, flying under the radar to avoid detention and deportation.

 

 

Yes, they're all hiding in the shadows....

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, troll posts and rants have been removed along with replies.   Just to be clear, the Census is a count of the people who live in the United States, regardless of status.   It includes, for example, people who are permanent resident aliens. 

 

The right to vote in government elections is reserved for US citizens who must still meet certain requirements such as age. 

 

Please stay on topic.  

[RocketDog]

On 9/11/2020 at 7:15 AM, Mama Noodle said:

Awesome, so states can continue to keep their illegal sanctuary city status, count their illegal immigrant population on the census, and inflate their states representation in Congress while inching up their electoral college points with those same non-Americans. 
 

Awesome. 
 

 

Last time I checked members of the House of Representatives could be from any party or no party. They just have to be elected. Still only two Senators per state regardless of population. 

[RocketDog]

On 9/11/2020 at 1:02 PM, JusticeGB said:

Why should illegal aliens have the right to vote. I lost my right to vote in the UK because I have been absent for 15 years but I still pay taxes on my UK derived income. I can't vote in Thailand even though I have lived here legally for over 20 years!

You're really not paying attention are you. Nobody said they can vote. 

[Yellowtail]

30 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

You're really not paying attention are you. Nobody said they can vote. 

A lot of people say they should be able to...

[forehandplus]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

A lot of people say they should be able to...

Could you be any more vague?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

A lot of people say they should be able to...

Who says illegal immigrants should be able to vote?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, forehandplus said:

Could you be any more vague?

A lot of uhh umm duuu 

[Yellowtail]

51 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Who says illegal immigrants should be able to vote?

I do

[RocketDog]

4 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

A lot of people say they should be able to...

Hmmm. OK. I'll take your word for that I guess. 

Any other interesting hearsay? 

Some people say the moon is made of cheese. 

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Hmmm. OK. I'll take your word for that I guess. 

Any other interesting hearsay? 

Some people say the moon is made of cheese. 

Who says the moon is made of cheese?

 

 

[tgw]

they need to clear up their technicalities.

illegal immigrants should not have the right to vote, period.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 9/11/2020 at 3:01 PM, Scot123 said:

Unbelievable, twisted grasp on reality. Trump built up The USA economy to all new highs, surpassing the new norms Obama and the Dems crowed about, employment figures of all time highs, bringing back manufacturing and jobs for blacks and minorities to all time highs, all of which Obama and the Dems said was impossible and ridiculed Trump for promising to do it. Then Chinese C-19 hits the country/The World and even though he is breaking again all predictions Dems warped mindset blames him. Anyway this Judge should be fired immediately for breaking the law. Illegal = criminal and he thinks that is ok for them to vote!!! Madness! Try doing it in Thailand, start protesting in the streets demanding to vote and see what happens. 

The Judge ruled on  a point involving  a  raw  "Head Count" of  people  residing . There is no question of those who are otherwise undocumented being able to  vote.

[forehandplus]

35 minutes ago, tgw said:

they need to clear up their technicalities.

illegal immigrants should not have the right to vote, period.

What technicalities? Illegal immigrants don't have the right to vote in Federal or State elections.

[tgw]

3 minutes ago, forehandplus said:

What technicalities? Illegal immigrants don't have the right to vote in Federal or State elections.

the title of this article mentions "representation". in a political context in a democracy this means people-elected representatives.

 

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, tgw said:

the title of this article mentions "representation". in a political context in a democracy this means people-elected representatives.

 

It means nothing of the sort. A census is a snapshot of people in the country. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Sujo

[forehandplus]

18 minutes ago, tgw said:

the title of this article mentions "representation". in a political context in a democracy this means people-elected representatives.

 

In the context of the census it means being counted re the apportioning of Congressional districts. Read the opening paragraph carefully.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Who says the moon is made of cheese?

 

 

Blue cheese to be precise.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

they need to clear up their technicalities.

illegal immigrants should not have the right to vote, period.

They don't.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Blue cheese to be precise.

I don't believe you! Can you provide a link?

[NorthernRyland]

Some history since it appears some people question the constitutionality of not counting illegal immigrants. I don't know where they're getting this from but it's clearly not true.

 

This is John Jay ("Founding Father") from 1788:

 

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice, that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country, to one united people; a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence.

 

Snippet from The Naturalization Act of 1790:

 

The law limited naturalization to "free white person ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians, although free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in a number of states.

 

The point being is that the original Americans absolutely had an idea of who an American is and they would have denied citizenship to 99% of these illegal aliens who are in the country now (non-whites from South America primarily).

 

It's even a bigger joke to think they would allow them to be counted on a census for the purpose of congressional seats. Sure count them, that's always helpful information but anything else is clearly not in the spirit of the people who actually wrote the constitution.

Edited September 12, 2020 by genericptr

[forehandplus]

13 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Some history since it appears some people question the constitutionality of not counting illegal immigrants. I don't know where they're getting this from but it's clearly not true.

 

This is John Jay ("Founding Father") from 1788:

 

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice, that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country, to one united people; a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence.

 

Snippet from The Naturalization Act of 1790:

 

The law limited naturalization to "free white person ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians, although free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in a number of states.

 

The point being is that the original Americans absolutely had an idea of who an American is and they would have denied citizenship to 99% of these illegal aliens who are in the country now (non-whites from South America primarily).

 

It's even a bigger joke to think they would allow them to be counted on a census for the purpose of congressional seats. Sure count them, that's always helpful information but anything else is clearly not in the spirit of the people who actually wrote the constitution.

Here are the criteria for the census of 1790.

 Congress assigned responsibility for the 1790 census to the marshals of United States judicial districts under an act which, with minor modifications and extensions, governed census taking until the 1840 census. "The law required that every household be visited, that completed census schedules be posted in 'two of the most public places within [each jurisdiction], there to remain for the inspection of all concerned...' and that 'the aggregate amount of each description of persons' for every district be transmitted to the president."^[2]

"Census data included the name of the head of the family and categorized inhabitants as follows: free white males at least 16 years of age (to assess the country's industrial and military potential), free white males under 16 years of age, free white females, all other free persons (reported by sex and color), and enslaved people.^[6]"

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1790_United_States_Census}

 

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, forehandplus said:

"Census data included the name of the head of the family and categorized inhabitants as follows: free white males at least 16 years of age (to assess the country's industrial and military potential), free white males under 16 years of age, free white females, all other free persons (reported by sex and color), and enslaved people.^[6]"

 

They were counted to merely understand who inhabited the lands. What's happening in 2020 has actual consequences to government and would have never been tolerated.

 

Just to be clear everyone wants the illegal alien population counted, they just don't want this to shift the balance of politics (which these states with sanctuary polices are very eager to do).

[forehandplus]

4 minutes ago, genericptr said:

They were counted to merely understand who inhabited the lands. What's happening in 2020 has actual consequences to government and would have never been tolerated.

 

Just to be clear everyone wants the illegal alien population counted, they just don't want this to shift the balance of politics (which these states with sanctuary polices are very eager to do).

Have you actually read the relevant clause in the constitution? 

"Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."

This aligns exactly with the questions asked in the first census.

[Yellowtail]

It is interesting that we would go to all the time and expense of the census and make any attempt to determine how may illegal aliens are in the county.

 

I wonder why that is....