UK PM Johnson appeals to party for support over controversial bill

[3NUMBAS]

This bill is a protection of the UK internal market. Any MP who votes against this Bill should really see a shrink. The existing bill would have would have put a border down the Irish sea in the event of a NO DEAL outcome re trade negotiations. The EU have state that they may block UK food exports to the EU due to non compliance re food standards. The UK has abided by EU food standards for donkey's years, we actually set some of them. WE are not the one's who sold Horse meat as minced beef, we are not the ones who transported listeria via poor hygiene re salad stuffs, They complain about the United States selling chlorine washed chicken yet they sell chlorine washed salad's, AS far as chlorinated chicken is concerned that must be down to purchasers choice.

[bannork]

5 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

This bill is a protection of the UK internal market. Any MP who votes against this Bill should really see a shrink. The existing bill would have would have put a border down the Irish sea in the event of a NO DEAL outcome re trade negotiations. The EU have state that they may block UK food exports to the EU due to non compliance re food standards. The UK has abided by EU food standards for donkey's years, we actually set some of them. WE are not the one's who sold Horse meat as minced beef, we are not the ones who transported listeria via poor hygiene re salad stuffs, They complain about the United States selling chlorine washed chicken yet they sell chlorine washed salad's, AS far as chlorinated chicken is concerned that must be down to purchasers choice.

Johnson said the existing bill ( WA) was fantastic, an oven ready deal. He won the election on it promising to get Brexit done.

 So was he lying all along? 

[3NUMBAS]

Any one who votes for Labour may as well vote for the Scottish Nasty Party, the Welsh Nasty Party, or the Irish Nasty party, because a vote for Labour is clearly a vote supporting the dismantling of the UK, Labour now have made it crystal clear they represent, the Scottish, Welsh, and Irish, republicans, infact they appear to represent anything seen to be anti British, I hope the hard working real English people show them the door big style at the next G.Election .

[3NUMBAS]

the oven ready deal was fine when he signed the WA but the EU has moved the goal posts so he has to bring in other measures to rectify the situation as thepower mad EU wnats a spanner in the works as theyre so bitter about the monthly payments cesing

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, 3NUMBAS said:

Any one who votes for Labour may as well vote for the Scottish Nasty Party, the Welsh Nasty Party, or the Irish Nasty party, because a vote for Labour is clearly a vote supporting the dismantling of the UK, Labour now have made it crystal clear they represent, the Scottish, Welsh, and Irish, republicans, infact they appear to represent anything seen to be anti British, I hope the hard working real English people show them the door big style at the next G.Election .

So representing the scots and welsh is anti British. Looks like you have a very limited definition of British.

 

But this twisting and turning on the once (last year only) greatest treaty ever, tsss.

 

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

^^.         ^^

 

Lets just say I hunch about you and all is not as it seems.

If that's directed at me then spell it out because I've no idea what you are talking about.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

apology accepted,actually your whole post confused me,just a deflection however i ask again,how many colonies does britain have in africa today?

Zero.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Zero.

i rest my case

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

She is one person in Northern Ireland. As already shown to you, most Northern Ireland politicians disagree with her. Even the Ulster Unionists. Although the DUP's Arlene Foster has now decided to back him; I wonder at what cost; as much or more than May promised?

 

Hoey's accuracy track record isn't very great: Fact check: Kate Hoey’s claims about the EU

 

Where were you when Boris prorogued Parliament because they didn't accept this withdrawal agreement?

 

Where were you when Johnson called a back me or sack me general election after Parliament still refused to accept this agreement?

 

Where were you when Johnson announced this agreement as his and told us all how wonderful it was for the UK?

 

It is you who has no idea.

You really must pay attention.

 

Johnson signed an agreement which he hailed at the time as "a "fantastic moment" for the country, saying the signing was "a fantastic moment, which finally delivers the result of the 2016 referendum" (source).

 

That agreement was enshrined in UK law via the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020

 

Now he's decided for some reason to ignore all of that; decided to break that agreement, break UK law. 

 

You have still refused to answer how Johnson proving to the world that he is not only ready and willing to ignore an international agreement he previously hailed as a triumph but in so doing is also read y and willing to ignore an Act passed by his own government is good for the UK.

 

Obviously, you can't; because it isn't.

 

My allegiances are as explained to you many times; to the country I was born in, the country I live in, the country my father spent 6 years of his life defending: the UK.

 

But you have forgotten that; just as you have forgotten your enthusiastic support for the Withdrawal Agreement and the Northern Ireland Protocol last year and in January this year when Johnson was telling you how wonderful it was!

 

 

All but one of the DUP voted for the Internal Markets Bill. It's better for the province than being left at the mercy of EU bureaucrats and their threats against the UK.

I was there - backing Boris all the way. I still here now, cheering him on. "Come on you Bozza." Now that we are officially out of the EU, if they don't negotiate in good faith, tear up the WA. That's taking back control for you.

 

[bannork]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

All but one of the DUP voted for the Internal Markets Bill. It's better for the province than being left at the mercy of EU bureaucrats and their threats against the UK.

I was there - backing Boris all the way. I still here now, cheering him on. "Come on you Bozza." Now that we are officially out of the EU, if they don't negotiate in good faith, tear up the WA. That's taking back control for you.

 

Negotiating the WA in bad faith, intending to break it all along, condemning the UK to a no deal Brexit and the hardships that will bring.

What a legacy.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

8 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

lol you don’t get a lot of humour on TVF nowadays so cheers for that ????????

 

Brexit was based purely on hate - there’s nothing to suggest otherwise 

8 hours ago, stevenl said:

To a large extent yes, agree. But also the memory of a great past played a major part. But same as everywhere, also for the UK the past can't be brought back.

Many factors appear to have motivated Brexit voters, hate certainly, phantasies of returning to a glorious past, no doubt. The scapegoating of Immigrants and the poor by the sick Tory tabloids, was a major one also, it worked wonders for the Nazis in the 1930s. 

 

Fear was a huge one, "Take back control" was a clever slogan of course. Sadly many in the UK were so ill informed, deluded, or just plain stupid, that they believed it when they were told that the EU was controlling their lives, and was planning to turn into a federal superstate, run by Germany and France. The irony is that the UK were made welcome at the heart of Europe before, and their input to many aspects of EU affairs was much appreciated. 

 

A long history of civilisation in individual European countries has helped the EU become a leader in promoting the decent standards of modern civilisation. 

 

Sadly Brexiteers have fought instead to turn the UK in a pariah state, that cannot even adhere to international agreements that it signed only a few months ago.

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

the oven ready deal was fine when he signed the WA but the EU has moved the goal posts so he has to bring in other measures to rectify the situation as thepower mad EU wnats a spanner in the works as theyre so bitter about the monthly payments cesing

The changes that Boris wants to the WA are almost entirely concerned with NI, and it's trade, borders, etc. 

I am intrigued to know exactly how the EU has moved the goal posts on this in the few short months since the agreement was signed.  

[transam]

14 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Yeah some of the girls on Walking street were saying that.

Oh, you hang out there too, eh....????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:38 PM, Rookiescot said:

How can you order someone to break the law?

Is what the UK has become? A tinpot dictatorship following a despot?

Anyone who votes for this bill in the knowledge it breaks international law should be prosecuted.

Since when is "appealing to" = "ordering?

 

What international body is going to prosecute British subjects? Britain can make any laws it wishes to. We ain't ( yet ) ruled by the UN.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

A long history of civilisation in individual European countries has helped the EU become a leader in promoting the decent standards of modern civilisation. 

Does that include the Inquisition?

 

5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

The irony is that the UK were made welcome at the heart of Europe before, and their input to many aspects of EU affairs was much appreciated. 

No irony at all. When Britain joined the EC European leaders hadn't gone ( IMO ) power mad. The British people's rebellion against Brussels is IMO only the beginning. Illegal immigration is opening the cracks in the institution between such as Germany that wants illegals to be "shared" among all states and those states that want none of them. Hopefully the entire political union will collapse and it will return to what it should have remained- a common market. Political union was a bridge too far, IMO.

[Lormak]

I suggest studying some of the writings of Dominic Cummings. He has upset a lot of powerful people but is an exceptional political strategist and one of the greatest political thinkers of this century.

Writing in early 2016..

"Extremists are on the rise in Europe and are being fuelled unfortunately by the Euro project and by the centralisation of power in Brussels. It is increasingly important that Britain offers an example of civilised, democratic, liberal self-government"

 

In 2017...

"For me ... the worst-case scenario for Europe is a return to 1930s-style protectionism and extremism. And to me the EU project, the Eurozone project, are driving the growth of extremism. The single most important reason, really, for why I wanted to get out of the EU is I think that it will drain the poison of a lot of political debates ... UKIP and Nigel Farage would be finished. Once there's democratic control of immigration policy, immigration will go back to being a second- or third-order issue."

 

I think he's nailed it.

 

[7by7]

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

All but one of the DUP voted for the Internal Markets Bill. It's better for the province than being left at the mercy of EU bureaucrats and their threats against the UK.

 So that is seven out of Northern Ireland's 18 MPs: less than half!

 

Ok, seven of those MPs are from Sinn Fein, who won't take up their seats as they refuse to take the Loyal Oath. But Sinn Fein have spoken out against the Bill. (BTW, I am no supporter of SF, who I believe know where the bodies of the missing are, know who committed previous PIRA atrocities etc.. But these days they do represent a substantial proportion of the Northern Irish people.)

 

The DUP are the only Northern Irish party to support this Bill. They received 30.6% of the votes last December. So over two thirds of the people of Northern Ireland support parties who do not support this Bill.

 

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

I was there - backing Boris all the way. I still here now, cheering him on. "Come on you Bozza."

Indeed you were; agreeing with him that this agreement was the best thing since sliced bread, agreeing with him that he had negotiated the perfect deal for the UK. Agreeing with him that the Irish Sea border was the only way to solve the issue of the Irish border.

 

Were you all lying and BSing back then?

 

Or are you now so Pavlovian in your responses to Johnson that you've stopped thinking for yourself?

 

15 hours ago, Loiner said:

Now that we are officially out of the EU, if they don't negotiate in good faith, tear up the WA. That's taking back control for you

Negotiating in good faith?

 

You consider reneging on an agreement which one previously hailed as a personal triumph negotiating in good faith?

 

Of course, we all know why you accuse the EU of not negotiating in good faith. It's because they refuse to roll over and give Johnson everything he demands. That's what brought on this childish tantrum for Number 10! A tantrum which, if successful, will cost this country dear.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Lormak said:

<snip>

I suggest studying some of the writings of Dominic Cummings.

Is this the same Dominic Cummings who in 2017 said Tory MPs do not care about poor people or the NHS? (Source)

 

The same Dominic Cummings who said "Most politicians, officials, and advisers operate with fragments of philosophy, little knowledge of maths or science (few MPs can answer even simple probability questions yet most are confident in their judgment), and little experience in well-managed complex organisations. The skills, and approach to problems, of our best mathematicians, scientists, and entrepreneurs are
almost totally shut out of vital decisions. We do not have a problem with 'too much cynicism' - we have a problem with too much trust in people and institutions that are not fit to control so much."

 

The same Dominic Cummings who " outwitted Britain’s establishment by combining a brilliantly simple slogan - 'Take back control' - with shameless lies about the European Union, the National Health Service and the danger that Turks could soon emigrate to Britain en masse."

 

The same Dominic Cummings who pointed out that the Vote.Leave campaign had nothing to do with rational discussion?

 

Etc., etc..

 

(Source)

[Loiner]

33 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 So that is seven out of Northern Ireland's 18 MPs: less than half!

 

Ok, seven of those MPs are from Sinn Fein, who won't take up their seats as they refuse to take the Loyal Oath. But Sinn Fein have spoken out against the Bill. (BTW, I am no supporter of SF, who I believe know where the bodies of the missing are, know who committed previous PIRA atrocities etc.. But these days they do represent a substantial proportion of the Northern Irish people.)

 

The DUP are the only Northern Irish party to support this Bill. They received 30.6% of the votes last December. So over two thirds of the people of Northern Ireland support parties who do not support this Bill.

 

Indeed you were; agreeing with him that this agreement was the best thing since sliced bread, agreeing with him that he had negotiated the perfect deal for the UK. Agreeing with him that the Irish Sea border was the only way to solve the issue of the Irish border.

 

Were you all lying and BSing back then?

 

Or are you now so Pavlovian in your responses to Johnson that you've stopped thinking for yourself?

 

Negotiating in good faith?

 

You consider reneging on an agreement which one previously hailed as a personal triumph negotiating in good faith?

 

Of course, we all know why you accuse the EU of not negotiating in good faith. It's because they refuse to roll over and give Johnson everything he demands. That's what brought on this childish tantrum for Number 10! A tantrum which, if successful, will cost this country dear.

Trying to twist the NI percentages now? How many voted against it - not many, only 2 nationalists and a touchy feely pro-euro.  Could it be that the Republicans see this EU meddling as a route to break up of the Union?  Keep it up, somebody might agree with you.

I've always supported Boris and will continue to do so. Why not have a look at my old posts regarding the WA - you know you want to, and it would support your claims above if you knew what you were talking about.

I accuse the EU of not negotiating in good faith because that's what they are doing. In this case Boris can ditch the whole WA for me. We are out now and I don't care what the EU and Remainers think about it. Nonetheless, it served its purpose to get us past parliament and out of the EU. Now we can override it where necessary.

Tantrums? Ha ha, that's purely EU and Remainer domain in this Brexit and has been for the past four years. Your own is still going on.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Trying to twist the NI percentages now?

No, quoting facts; which you can easily check for yourself if you don't care for my source.

 

As for the rest of your, frequently self contradictory post, all you are doing is yet again refusing to answer questions, refusing to provide any evidence at all to support your claims.

 

If you are so confident that you are right, why is that?

 

Ooops; another question for you to ignore.

 

To be fair, though, you do seem to be saying that you supported Johnson's agreement when he negotiated and signed it because you knew he was lying at the time. A lie used as a means to an end.

 

Perfidious Albion, indeed.

Edited September 16, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[Nout]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:42 PM, Rookiescot said:

Utter deflection. Answer the points I made.

Your points have been answered for years. You lost. Get over it.

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Nout said:

Your points have been answered for years. You lost. Get over it.

 

The UK is a democracy. We have the right to argue against things we believe to be wrong. We have the right to seek to change what we believe to be wrong.

 

If we did not have those rights, the 2016 referendum would never have taken place!

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

The UK is a democracy. We have the right to argue against things we believe to be wrong. We have the right to seek to change what we believe to be wrong.

 

 

There is nobody saying that you cannot continue doing that

[7by7]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

There is nobody saying that you cannot continue doing that

 Really?

 

The post I quoted is one of many saying just that!

[Nout]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

The UK is a democracy. We have the right to argue against things we believe to be wrong. We have the right to seek to change what we believe to be wrong.

 

If we did not have those rights, the 2016 referendum would never have taken place!

There's a difference between arguing and whinging over a result you didn't like. Get over yourself. Your lot are like a cracked record.

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Really?

 

The post I quoted is one of many saying just that!

Well, tell them they are wrong 

[7by7]

18 minutes ago, Nout said:

There's a difference between arguing and whinging over a result you didn't like. Get over yourself. Your lot are like a cracked record.

 It's democracy; it's free speech. Maybe you don't care for those ideals?

 

Arguing against Brexit? Sure.

 

Whinging? I'll leave that to you Brexiteers! You won, but you've been whinging ever since! 

 

You're all still doing it! You're now whinging the deal you all previously hailed as a win win for the UK is actually a piece EU perfidy! 

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Well, tell them they are wrong 

 We do; frequently. Only to be told "You lost. Get over it." 

 

A frequent response by Brexiteers; especially when they are asked questions they can't answer or presented with facts they can't refute.

[Loiner]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

No, quoting facts; which you can easily check for yourself if you don't care for my source.

 

As for the rest of your, frequently self contradictory post, all you are doing is yet again refusing to answer questions, refusing to provide any evidence at all to support your claims.

 

If you are so confident that you are right, why is that?

 

Ooops; another question for you to ignore.

 

To be fair, though, you do seem to be saying that you supported Johnson's agreement when he negotiated and signed it because you knew he was lying at the time. A lie used as a means to an end.

 

Perfidious Albion, indeed.

You twist facts as much as you twist percentages. The main fact is, however much you try to twist, that more NI politicians voted for the IMB than against it. You'll be trying to tell me next that more people voted to Remain than Leave. Perfidious 49 by any chance?

 

I'm not here to answer your questions. That's another fact you can quote if you like. Why not ask me for a link to that? You might guess what my answer would be.

 

I didn't know Boris was lying when he got the WA passed, and I don't think he was. Maybe he knew what the EU was trying to do and what he would be able to override. Either way I still support Boris's action here and have said earlier that I would happily see him drive a coach and horses through the WA. In fact I would be delighted to see him drive a big red bus through it. That would be fun for all, especially the ensuing Remainer outrage. 

 

Now, enough of your tantrums indeed.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

There's a difference between arguing and whinging over a result you didn't like. Get over yourself. Your lot are like a cracked record.

Hey you guys won.

Get over it.