"Winter" hot water heater.

Lacessit · September 26, 2020

9 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Cost would be overbearing, plus unless you install some sort of bypass, it'll be nuclear in the summertime.

Cost doesn't need to be high, my son had a DIY that worked quite well with 20 metres of plastic hose on the roof. The tricky part is combining it with cold water in the right proportions.

Mama Noodle · September 26, 2020

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Cost doesn't need to be high, my son had a DIY that worked quite well with 20 metres of plastic hose on the roof. The tricky part is combining it with cold water in the right proportions.

Or get a gas setup with blender taps.

If it gets that cold in a region, IMO, best to revert back to countries that have to deal with cold water and cold weather.

Bandersnatch · September 26, 2020

Our solar water heater provides all our hot water needs.

sometimewoodworker · September 26, 2020

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Just wondering if another solution is a solar water panel on the roof, to prewarm the water before it gets to the 8KW heater.

Covered in post 20

2nd and 4th points ????

Edited September 26, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

giddyup · September 26, 2020

On 9/25/2020 at 12:35 PM, Kwasaki said:

We have a 7kw shower unit which get too hot If set to high even under extra power from the water pump, power shower. ????

Never saw the point of water heaters in Thailand.

I would have thought the point was to make the water warm instead of freezing your gonads off.

Moonlover · September 26, 2020

On 9/25/2020 at 1:55 PM, trucking said:

We've never had one as rarely need it even though we live northish.

However, on days where it gets down to 15-17 and a cold shower is a bit too bracing we just boil up a big pot of water on the stove ( about 5 minutes ) then mix it with cold water in the bathroom galamang. Low tech but actually prefer a big cascade of water to a shower. In any event , only need to do this about 10 days a year

Good for you. The simplest solutions are often the best ones. We did the same for two years prior to renovating the house. We do have a small 3.5kw shower unit now. But more often than not, our problem is actually getting the water cool enough! So we still often resort to the dustbin and bucket routine in order to have a refreshing shower.

CGW · September 26, 2020

8 hours ago, Crossy said:

Also is the "spare" a multipoint (like your existing unit) or a "shower" heater?

It's identical to the one fitted - "multipoint", as I said in previous post, first winter up here I replaced existing heater as i though it was burnt out - I was wrong!

Kwasaki · September 26, 2020

54 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I would have thought the point was to make the water warm instead of freezing your gonads off.

The point I was making to OP was he has bath and wash basins, so do I but I don't use the bath when the water is cold which not very often.

So the shower units we have in our bathrooms heat the water to the desired temperature we desire.

Do you get my point now. ????

thaiscot · September 26, 2020

I hear you on this as i live up near chiang rai & it got down to 7 or 8 c last cold season, we have an 850kw shower but even that only gets the water lukewarm in the cold season, i have a bath in the bathroom aswell as shower but cant take a bath at cold season as just not hot enough

what do hotels etc use as they normally have good hot water ?

thaiscot · September 26, 2020

25 minutes ago, thaiscot said:

I hear you on this as i live up near chiang rai & it got down to 7 or 8 c last cold season, we have an 850kw shower but even that only gets the water lukewarm in the cold season, i have a bath in the bathroom aswell as shower but cant take a bath at cold season as just not hot enough

what do hotels etc use as they normally have good hot water ?

Correction 8.5 kw

digger70 · September 26, 2020

On 9/25/2020 at 2:18 PM, CGW said:

That would work, but difficult to retrofit! would have to reroute water piping and would need another power supply, worthy of some thought - thanks.

Water to the house is cool! doesn't travel far, no other houses around, goes into a smallish stainless tank that is painted matt black which helps a little.

On 9/25/2020 at 12:28 PM, CGW said:

It's starting to cool off "up North" now, I never realised prior to moving up here how inefficient the water heaters are when cold!

For THB 10000 you will get a nice Heater to have a Hot shower if you want More you may have to upgrade your Wiring.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/ariston-50-pro50r-3-i106768969-s107784296.html?exlaz=d_1:mm_150050845_51350205_2010350205::12:1498579383!58089999096!!!pla-294682000766!c!294682000766!107784296!128949273&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzbv7BRDIARIsAM-A6-2sHUkUzXpOSB520G2TFXR0UoSphZQG4FIMN8eZ8G4aOEKY-aFqc1UaAi-OEALw_wcB

DJ54 · September 26, 2020

We have this in the master bedroom gets hot if needed... works great! It’s a little over four years old...we are Near Kumphawapi in NE and cold enough to warrant a hot shower on the nights... I’m not interested in freezing my balls off if I don’t to..

Edited September 26, 2020 by DJ54
Added

CGW · September 26, 2020

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

For THB 10000 you will get a nice Heater to have a Hot shower if you want More you may have to upgrade your Wiring.

I can get a hot shower now, I want a hot shower with volume and pressure - in the colder days, during the summer the water is too hot to get a cold shower!

No pleasing some ????

What power supply does that "heater" require? does it use the same water supply as a "multi point" heater?

sometimewoodworker · September 26, 2020

21 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

We have this in the master bedroom gets hot if needed... works great! It’s a little over years old...

Anyone can get a hot shower if the incoming water temperature is high enough.

So your statement is of little relevance, no location, no water incoming temperature, no power rating etc.

DJ54 · September 26, 2020

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So your statement is of little relevance, no location, no water incoming temperature, no power rating etc.

Oh I guess your talking to OP and not me...

Edited September 26, 2020 by DJ54
Added picture

sometimewoodworker · September 26, 2020

30 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

So your statement is of little relevance, no location, no water incoming temperature, no power rating etc.

Oh I guess your talking to OP and not me...

No. Talking to you.

from that picture it’s clear that you are not in a northern area nor live a high altitude so your incoming water temperature is unlikely to be under 20^oC or your definition of hot is very different from most, as it’s impossible for that unit to raise the water temperature by more than about 15^oC unless you have reduced the flow to a trickle.

DJ54 · September 26, 2020

7 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No. Talking to you

I made a suggestion simple as that,, I guess your right I reckon I was confused. Northeastern, Thailand, its geographical coordinates are 17° 5' 44" North, 102° 56' 24" East

Non Sa-at

Northeastern, Thailand, its geographical coordinates are 16° 58' 0" North, 102° 54' 0" East

Neighbors

sometimewoodworker · September 27, 2020

32 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

I made a suggestion simple as that,, I guess your right I reckon I was confused. Northeastern, Thailand, its geographical coordinates are 17° 5' 44" North, 102° 56' 24" East

Non Sa-at

Northeastern, Thailand, its geographical coordinates are 16° 58' 0" North, 102° 54' 0" East

Neighbors

@DJ54 you probably know that neighbours are often very different.

Giving latitude and longitudinal locations doesn’t help.

in the central plains areas of Thailand the coldest part of the cold season seldom sees, if ever, temperatures under 20^oC so a 3 kw (actually slightly more if you have higher voltage) is normally plenty.

Here we get about 5^oC lower. In Chang Mai city 10^oC lower, get further north or at higher elevations and low single digits are normal.

All of that means that saying “what I have will be great for you” is obviously wrong unless your low temperatures are virtually the same as mine.

Here a 6.5 kw heater produces running hot water showers for about 9~10 months, walking hot 1-2 months and crawling hot for about 3 weeks. Also at the hight of the hot season we have over 34^oC water so turn the power to the shower heater off.

An 8 kw unit would probably give hot high pressure showers year round here. It’s obvious that the colder your incoming water is the more powerful a heater you need.

brianthainess · September 27, 2020

On 9/25/2020 at 2:18 PM, CGW said:

That would work, but difficult to retrofit! would have to reroute water piping and would need another power supply, worthy of some thought - thanks.

Water to the house is cool! doesn't travel far, no other houses around, goes into a smallish stainless tank that is painted matt black which helps a little.

Matt black will radiate the heat away from the tank, this is why all car radiators are painted black. It was taught to me when training to be a mechanic and was a question in the exams. Matt black radiates more heat than any other colour.

CGW · September 27, 2020

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Matt black radiates more heat than any other colour.

Indeed but Dark matt surfaces are better at absorbing heat energy than light shiny surfaces. Dark matt surfaces are better at radiating heat energy than light shiny surfaces, Dark colours absorb a lot more heat than lighter ones because they absorb more light energy. In fact, the closer to black a colour is, the more heat it absorbs from light sources, therefore the energy is converted to heat up the water more efficiently as the water is cooler than ambient temp, with a radiator it is a lot hotter than ambient therefore will lose heat quicker. - something like that ????

sometimewoodworker · September 27, 2020

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Matt black will radiate the heat away from the tank, this is why all car radiators are painted black. It was taught to me when training to be a mechanic and was a question in the exams. Matt black radiates more heat than any other colour.

Correct but not really relevant as it’s more important that it gains heat really well when the sun is up so about 2 pm ~ 3 pm you can get a reasonably warm shower.

digger70 · September 27, 2020

16 hours ago, CGW said:

I can get a hot shower now, I want a hot shower with volume and pressure - in the colder days, during the summer the water is too hot to get a cold shower!

No pleasing some ????

What power supply does that "heater" require? does it use the same water supply as a "multi point" heater?

Those water heaters have an insulated water compartment, the small one is about 50 Litre with an heater element in it.

You can set the thermostat if you like say from 60 C to 85 C

The unit is 2.5 KW that's is just over 11 Amp .

You can run that on the Unit wiring you got now

You can use your Full water pressure you got now if you have Mixer Taps in the Bathroom , meaning One for Cold and One for Hot water and can adjust the Taps to your Temperature Warm water liking.

CGW · September 27, 2020

31 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Those water heaters have an insulated water compartment, the small one is about 50 Litre with an heater element in it.

Thanks, this sounds to be ideal, will look into it further.

kokesaat · September 27, 2020

I've lived in the NE for 23 years. We have a deep well, water generally 76ish degrees all year long. The well water is pumped into a 2000l (cement, handmade) tank which sits on the ground below our raised porch. I designed it that way to avoid the hot water syndrome during the 10+ months of warm weather.....and it works perfectly in that regard. But during cold spells, the water in the tank could use a boost......especially for morning face washes (no hot water at sink taps) and for showers where the hot water heater supplies just barely supplies enough water for a warm shower.

Would an immersion heater like that mentioned in post nr. 10 (100W, made for aquariums and smalls tanks) be adequate to take the edge off of the water in the tank....let's say, enough to bring it back to well-water temperatures?

This is one of those things I've dealt with over the years.......enough to make me want to do something about, but then the weather warms up again and I forget about it. The immersion element idea sounds good.....but wonder if it'd be sufficient for what I want to do. Ideas welcome.

sometimewoodworker · September 27, 2020

7 hours ago, kokesaat said:

Would an immersion heater like that mentioned in post nr. 10 (100W, made for aquariums and smalls tanks) be adequate to take the edge off of the water in the tank....let's say, enough to bring it back to well-water temperatures?

To raise the water (if it were in a perfectly insulated container without inflow or outflow) by 1 degree C takes 2,344 hours or over a month, so since you don’t have that it would take a couple of months and you might get a .5 degree C increase

So the simple answer is NO you can’t do it. The only way is either a tank heater (50 litres) or 8 kw shower heater to heat the water you actually use.

Edited September 27, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

brianthainess · September 28, 2020

21 hours ago, CGW said:

Indeed but Dark matt surfaces are better at absorbing heat energy than light shiny surfaces. Dark matt surfaces are better at radiating heat energy than light shiny surfaces, Dark colours absorb a lot more heat than lighter ones because they absorb more light energy. In fact, the closer to black a colour is, the more heat it absorbs from light sources, therefore the energy is converted to heat up the water more efficiently as the water is cooler than ambient temp, with a radiator it is a lot hotter than ambient therefore will lose heat quicker. - something like that ????

Correct That will depend on the ambient temperature ie the water will cool down quicker when painted matt black if the water is hotter than the outside temperature. The experiment we did was a small metal open box, 4 sides; a. painted gloss white, b. matt white, c. gloss black, d. matt black. a thermometer placed outside on each side , fill box with boiling water, matt black will record the highest temperature. So conclusion if the tank is at say 30c in the day and you want a hot shower at night when ambient is only 16c your stuffed edit; I should have left it there But, buy a pot belly stove and fire it up job done.