American expat charged with defamation after leaving multiple negative reviews online

[ClassySmasher]

This is a set up. I also was almost set up at the same hotel for the same reason.

[ClassySmasher]

And I’m an American teacher

[Expat Tom]

If you do not have a Thai passport and are in Thailand then you are a guest. Far too many expats here, and elsewhere in the world, are suffering from severe ethnocentrism. They want to live abroad and still want a Cozy Pub with cider on tap and fish and chips. Many Americans assume that they can be as rude and obnoxious here as they are at home. I lived in Florida for many years where we were inundated with thousands of New Yorker every year who persisted it telling the Floridians "we don't do it that way up North". My favorite bumper sticker at the time read, "We don't care how you do it up North". That would be very appropriate here...."We don't care how you do it in...America, the US, Germany, Australia, Korea. etc."  Well, reality check....it is just this simple...if you don't like it here either adapt or leave. No doubt that every expat here has had a lot of head scratching moments when faced with "Thainess". I certainly have. BUT I AM A GUEST HERE AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A THAI PASSPORT....SO ARE YOU.

 

There are many other countries in the world that are a bit more welcoming than Thailand and a lot that have more straight forward visa requirements. And regardless of how trite it might sound, the truth is, "If you don't like it here...try someplace else". I have lived here for many years and have left several times to give Europe, South America and other places in Asia a try. I always ended up returning to Thailand. 

 

The Thai year in 2563. This society has functioned a long time and regardless of whether you understand or agree with things, the Thais seemed to have survived without being told how to structure their society by we "enlightened Westerners". 

[hellohello123]

as a former owner of a few micro hospitality businsesses,

its a tough world in the modern world,

the internet allows everyone to have an opinion while 'hiding' behind the keyboard

at the same time, if you do the right thing by the customer, 99% of the time any reviews will be positive

 

this customer is easily classified as a "difficult" customer,

when I read reviews of  a restaurant/hotel/venue, I try and keep an open mind

if 99.9999% are positive then chances are its a good business, and the 0.00001% either got unlucky or are trouble makers.

 

anyone who complains of BYO alcohol into a venue, whose main business to sell alcohol is a <deleted>, unless there is a reason other than "I dont want to pay for it"

[San888]

The decision to issue legal proceedings is an own goal.. causing more damage to the hotels reputation given the online global attention it's now receiving.

So say all of us.

[FarFlungFalang]

38 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The American guy waged war on the business by writing false and fake reviews , lying and cheating to get revenge on a business that wouldnt allow him to bring beers from 7/11 to his room 

The case is yet to go to court so it's not yet determined wether the reviews were false and fake or if he was lying and cheating to get revenge so maybe we should wait until then to see if he should be strung up.

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The case is yet to go to court so it's not yet determined wether the reviews were false and fake or if he was lying and cheating to get revenge so maybe we should wait until then to see if he should be strung up.

Those issues will be of no concern to the court. True or false doesn't come into it. Said/not said is all that matters and on those grounds he's banged to rights I'm sad to say.

[FarFlungFalang]

7 minutes ago, Expat Tom said:

the Thais seemed to have survived without being told how to structure their society by we "enlightened Westerners".

Not true.Thailand has been told by all and sundry how to structure their society but they just don't seem to listen like most countries.

[jerolamo]

1 hour ago, khunpa said:

I am worried now. I just gave a girl 1 star on smooci ????

poor guy. i give you no star at all.

[hellohello123]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

Do you know which room he had, as they have rooms as high as 7600 Baht per night, booked online

 

Maybe he didn't want to go for the cheapest, unlike you?

I take the fact that they spent 6000 baht with a grain of salt,

Im guilty of it too, if the hotel cost 5900 baht, I will round off to 6000 baht,

and you know the saying of chinese whispers........

 

the only thing I deduce from 6000 per night is that its not a $10 usd per night cheap 1 star hotel and that its 5 star

[FarFlungFalang]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

Those issues will be of no concern to the court. True or false doesn't come into it. Said/not said is all that matters and on those grounds he's banged to rights I'm sad to say.

That is as you sad but I wouldn't want anyone to be convicted of being a vigilante.

[jerolamo]

Just now, FarFlungFalang said:

Not true.Thailand has been told by all and sundry how to structure their society but they just don't seem to listen like most countries.

correct.

But when they listen the FMI European economic request in 1997 and loose huge money because of that.

So you can understand the repercution of this story in the brain of population who, sure, doesn't want to trust anyone else.

But yes, it is true. I just explain there is also some good reason for that, do not forget the history.

[soalbundy]

19 hours ago, Pilotman said:

sounds a bit like a vindictive vendetta by him, rather than just posting a negative review on Trip Advisor. Sounds like he may have brought it on himself.  

As a tourist he could be excused for his ignorance but not as an expat, it is well known that the laws for 'defamation' here are draconian, the fact that the posts he made may be true won't help him.

[Thingamabob]

19 hours ago, kenk24 said:

you want to live in the rest of the world so badly, I think you have plenty of choices... 

Go and live somewhere else then.

[polpott]

1 minute ago, FarFlungFalang said:

That is as you sad but I wouldn't want anyone to be convicted of being a vigilante.

You and I but a Thai court doesn't think that way. They'll hear the rich thai with connections giving evidence in thai and the poor American goes down for the max.

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"damage to the reputation of the hotel".

This is the crux of the matter.....whether the things he alleged are true or not, he has probably :damaged the reputation" and this is how most people in Thailand use the law to save face or "protect their reputation"

 

Any debate about how valid his claims were or their veracity is totally beside the point.

 

There have been many examples of this over the years - I remember a case of an English person exposing exploitation in a fruit factory, but this didn't stop him from being arrested.

 

In Thailand truth takes second place over face.

 

What is needed now are multiple warnings about this hotel to visitors as to what might happen if they stay there and are unhappy with the service.

 

My guess is that they have compounded the situation by taking this action

[rott]

22 minutes ago, geisha said:

Unfair and libelous comments should be against the law. I have witnessed a man, who on being refused a takeaway , ( it was a restaurant and had no take away materials needed) screamed he would * let the world know what a bad restaurant this was and ruin them*.  He had been turned down very politely and there was no need at all for the scene he made in front of all the guests. There are people who are vindictive and are using the internet to vent their anger !!! By the way, he did what he menaced. 
Also, you don’t take a bottle of gin , or other drinks into a restaurant anywhere , corkage is quite usual. 

No argument with much of what you say, except for the last bit. 

When I lived in the Nakhon it was normal for people (er not me of course), to take their bottle of Blend or Regency in and instantly be given glasses and a bucket of ice. 

[polpott]

Just now, rott said:

No argument with much of what you say, except for the last bit. 

When I lived in the Nakhon it was normal for people (er not me of course), to take their bottle of Blend or Regency in and instantly be given glasses and a bucket of ice. 

I know restaurants in pattaya that do the same. No corkage but you pay for ice and mixers. Normal practice in Thai establishments.

[rkidlad]

58 minutes ago, rott said:

He doesn't need to be lying, read the Thai law on Defamation. 

 

Anyway he has yet to be prosecuted and it would be wrong to automatically assume he will get locked up if convicted. Just because the law allows for a prison sentence does not mean it will happen. 

He was already in jail. 

[JUAinBKK]

19 hours ago, Nout said:

Another self entitled yank bites the dust.lol

Jealous!  Hahahahaha ha. I take it, your not from the U.S.! ????????????????????. And depending on what you are, I’m sure you’ll be outraged enough to try to sue for defamation!????????????????????

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Expat Tom said:

If you do not have a Thai passport and are in Thailand then you are a guest. Far too many expats here, and elsewhere in the world, are suffering from severe ethnocentrism. They want to live abroad and still want a Cozy Pub with cider on tap and fish and chips. Many Americans assume that they can be as rude and obnoxious here as they are at home. I lived in Florida for many years where we were inundated with thousands of New Yorker every year who persisted it telling the Floridians "we don't do it that way up North". My favorite bumper sticker at the time read, "We don't care how you do it up North". That would be very appropriate here...."We don't care how you do it in...America, the US, Germany, Australia, Korea. etc."  Well, reality check....it is just this simple...if you don't like it here either adapt or leave. No doubt that every expat here has had a lot of head scratching moments when faced with "Thainess". I certainly have. BUT I AM A GUEST HERE AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A THAI PASSPORT....SO ARE YOU.

 

There are many other countries in the world that are a bit more welcoming than Thailand and a lot that have more straight forward visa requirements. And regardless of how trite it might sound, the truth is, "If you don't like it here...try someplace else". I have lived here for many years and have left several times to give Europe, South America and other places in Asia a try. I always ended up returning to Thailand. 

 

The Thai year in 2563. This society has functioned a long time and regardless of whether you understand or agree with things, the Thais seemed to have survived without being told how to structure their society by we "enlightened Westerners". 

I always am amused when a naive post like this pops up from the "adapt or leave" crew.It's always right to be polite and in Thailand it's often best to keep silent rather than make some "getting it off the chest" remark.But this doesn't mean one needs to accept every piece of poor behaviour sitting down. To make it easier for all these experts in "Thainess", I would point out that no educated Thai would put up for one moment the kind of bad treatment that this expert thinks foreigner should mildly submit to.Nor would most Thais think foreigners should be treated any differently from themselves.

 

As to the particular case, I admit to finding those who comment on Trip Advisor rather creepy (life's too short) - while making an exception for those who wish to praise a particular person or outstanding hotel service. It's quite reasonable for a hotel to charge corkage.But some comments here rather miss the point.However obnoxious the guest's comment, it's not reasonable to take steps to land that person in custody.

[rott]

2 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

He was already in jail. 

And already out. 

[Airbagwill]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

I always am amused when a naive post like this pops up from the "adapt or leave" crew.It's always right to be polite and in Thailand it's often best to keep silent rather than make some "getting it off the chest" remark.But this doesn't mean one needs to accept every piece of poor behaviour sitting down. To make it easier for all these experts in "Thainess", I would point out that no educated Thai would put up for one moment the kind of bad treatment that this expert thinks foreigner should mildly submit to.Nor would most Thais think foreigners should be treated any differently from themselves.

 

As to the particular case, I admit to finding those who comment on Trip Advisor rather creepy (life's too short) - while making an exception for those who wish to praise a particular person or outstanding hotel service. It's quite reasonable for a hotel to charge corkage.But some comments here rather miss the point.However obnoxious the guest's comment, it's not reasonable to take steps to land that person in custody.

The corkage charge is completely irrelevant - it is the way that Thai law works that is the elephant in the room

[JensenZ]

51 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

That’s why it needs to be proved he was lying. You take him to court and sue him. This is a civil matter. Not a criminal one. 

Not in Thailand. This is a Criminal case (defamation) AND a civil case will follow for damages.

 

Nothing needs to be proven other than if the reviews published online defame the business. It's clear they do. What actually happened will not need to be discussed. The lawyers have one easiest cases they could wish for.

 

A lot of Westerners get very upset when they learn the details of Thailand's defamation laws. In fact, I know of one person in Phuket that served 2 years for defaming his ex-wife.

 

There is some logic to Thailand's defamation laws. If a person, such as Mr Barnes, has unreasonable expectations about what level of service he expects at a hotel, and then roasts the hotel online with very bad reviews, then this is clearly unfair. Mr Barnes should not have been upset when they charged a corking fee as it is standard practice at many hotels. His opinion of the attitude of the staff is clearly subjective, and they were probably reacting to his bad attitude. Then he decided to opine on the way the management treated their staff - clearly none of his business and unrelated to the level of service the hotel provides.

 

What other logic is there for such harsh laws? Well, perhaps they believe in Thailand, instead of destroying a person or company's reputation over a dispute of some kind, they believe people should be able to work things out in other ways. Certainly online hotel reviews are subjective and often negative reviews are published unfairly... but as soon as they are published they are hurting the hotel, whether they are true or not. This leaves the opportunity for any person to hurt a business in just a few keystrokes.

 

I would suggest that hotel booking sites block reviews to all hotels in Thailand to avoid such unwanted consequences. They should just make a note that defamation laws in Thailand are harsh and put the reviewer at risk of fines and imprisonment for bad reviews.

[McAmp]

If he is an expat then he should know how strict the defamation law is here. I do not know any restaurant that you can take your own drink into and not pay corkage. You're using their facilities, ok you have a room with them but that does not give you any over rights.  

I think you have to remember what country you are in and act accordingly, maybe writing a string of bad reviews is ok in the USA but not here.  Hotels and resorts are desparate for customers at the moment in time, so it's seems odd the they would have the alleged bad attitude to any customer.  They is something missing from this story it just not add up.

   

[KhonkaenExpat]

Thailand need tourist, I think this manager has damage that and the reputation of the resort.  

The company should step in and drop the charges, show some sense and sensibility.  

[jayboy]

4 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The corkage charge is completely irrelevant - it is the way that Thai law works that is the elephant in the room

That was the point of my post.

[McAmp]

It just gone way over top for such a small thing.

[Jack Hammer]

Wesley stated he paid 6000 baht for one nights accommodation.. I checked the rates on line and it is $96 Aud a night (approx. 2000 baht)  Whoever is right or wrong, Thailand tourism will be the loser when this episode gets on TV and radio stations around the world. In Australia you can voice your opinion and have no fear of being thrown in goal.  Not as if this is anything to be proud of, in OZ you can tell the PM what he can do to himself, voice your opinion about the British Royal Family and not be thrown in goal.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Bill Good
wrong currency calculation

[FarFlungFalang]

26 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

correct.

But when they listen the FMI European economic request in 1997 and loose huge money because of that.

So you can understand the repercution of this story in the brain of population who, sure, doesn't want to trust anyone else.

But yes, it is true. I just explain there is also some good reason for that, do not forget the history.

I actually think they do kind of listen in that they wait a while and then present the advice as if it was their idea in the first place which is fine by me it's Thai style and makes Thai sense which something one gets use to.I don't agree with what the American guy did (though I've been paralytic many times and behaved badly sometimes) but I also don't think the way it's been handled will not be of benefit to anybody.Probably best just to forgive and forget and have a beer rather than waisting tax payers money to save face.

Edited September 27, 2020 by FarFlungFalang