EU and Britain far apart as key week of Brexit talks begins

[webfact]

EU and Britain far apart as key week of Brexit talks begins

By Jan Strupczewski, John Chalmers and Elizabeth Piper

 

FILE PHOTO: A Mini car is seen with a Union flag and European Union flag design on its bonnet in London, Britain March 31, 2016. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

BRUSSELS/LONDON (Reuters) - The European Union and Britain both said a post-Brexit deal was still some way off and differences persisted on Monday over putting in place their earlier divorce deal as they began a decisive week of talks in Brussels.

 

Britain left the EU last January and is locked in negotiations on a new trade deal from 2021, as well as on implementing the divorce, as set out in the Withdrawal Agreement, especially on the sensitive Irish border.

 

EU national leaders will assess the state of play at a summit next month, with a no-deal Brexit still possible.

 

Negotiations have stumbled over fisheries, fair competition and settling disputes, and Brexit descended into fresh chaos this month when London proposed draft laws that would undermine the earlier agreement.

 

"The UK's positions are far apart from what the EU can accept, a deputy head of the bloc's executive Commission, Maros Sefcovic, said on Monday after talks with Michael Gove, the minister handling the divorce deal.

 

"We maintain that the bill, if adopted in its current form, would constitute an extremely serious violation of ... the Withdrawal Agreement and of international law," he said, urging speedy progress before he meets Gove again in mid-October.

 

Gove said the clauses of the Internal Market Bill that undercut the Withdrawal Treaty would remain.

 

"We want to make sure that the Withdrawal Agreement is implemented in full," Gove told reporters. "But those clauses are there, they're in legislation ... And those clauses will remain in that bill."

 

TRADE TALKS

Prime Minister Boris Johnson's spokesman said in London that Britain's focus was on progress in trade talks.

 

"Although the last two weeks of informal talks have been relatively positive there remains much to be done," he said.

 

"We simply want the standard free trade agreement ... we continue to be asked to accept provisions that do not reflect the reality of our status as an independent country."

 

Trade talks resume in Brussels on Tuesday. Lasting until Friday morning and also due to cover energy links and transport, they are the final round of negotiations scheduled so far.

 

EU leaders meeting in Brussels on Thursday and Friday are expected to authorise more talks before their next summit on Oct. 15-16. They will then assess whether to try push a deal over the line or prepare for the most damaging Brexit at the end of the year.

 

European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen told reporters at a news conference in Lisbon late on Monday that a post-Brexit deal was still possible, saying the EU was "working hard" on it.

 

"Our economies, on both sides of the Channel, were severely hit by the pandemic and we should do everything possible to find an agreement that is manageable so we do not increase the negative impact on our economies," she said.

 

The EU says negotiators must seal an agreement by the end of October or early November, to leave time for ratification by the European Parliament and some national parliaments in the EU so that it can take effect from 2021 when Britain's standstill transition ends after Brexit.

 

Otherwise, the delicate peace on the island of Ireland as well as an estimated trillion euros worth of annual EU-UK trade would be at risk as the sides would fall back on general World Trade Organization rules that include tariffs and quotas.

 

(Additional reporting by Guy Faulconbridge and William James in London and Catarina Demony in Lisbon, Writing by Gabriela Baczynska; Editing by Giles Elgood and Alison Williams)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-09-29

 

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[PremiumLane]

Well colour me shocked, another right wing populist government messing up and screwing their country for the benefit of a few. I guess common sense isn't so sensible after all

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Well colour me shocked, another right wing populist government messing up and screwing their country for the benefit of a few. I guess common sense isn't so sensible after all

You mean that government that was voted in with over 80 seats in the HoC.

By the way what  government that is voted into power isn't populist.

 

Populism

"a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups".

 

I guess you are a remainer that lost the referendum.

[PremiumLane]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You mean that government that was voted in with over 80 seats in the HoC.

By the way what  government that is voted into power isn't populist.

 

Populism

"a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups".

 

I guess you are a remainer that lost the referendum.

Ehhhh I knew what populism means... and funny how these populist politicians always end up screwing the ordinary people, cos, surprise surprise they are the same elite groups as the others.... ever feel like you are being conned? 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

 

I guess you are a remainer that lost the referendum.

Deffo a Remainer I’d say. Lefty too and probably frustrated Corbynista. Jezza wasn’t very popular at all.

Couldn’t be Blairite because that left wing populist government really screwed the country for the benefit of a few. 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Well colour me shocked, another right wing populist government messing up and screwing their country for the benefit of a few. I guess common sense isn't so sensible after all

 

As opposed to a left wing government messing up, screwing their country for the benefit of the few (usually including their own extended families of course) whilst denying reality and persecuting any who dare disagree you mean?

 

Indeed, common sense seems not sensible at all.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

Ehhhh I knew what populism means... and funny how these populist politicians always end up screwing the ordinary people, cos, surprise surprise they are the same elite groups as the others.... ever feel like you are being conned? 

 

I bet the people of Venezuela, Angola, Zimbabwe etc etc etc all feel well conned!

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You mean that government that was voted in with over 80 seats in the HoC.

By the way what  government that is voted into power isn't populist.

 

Populism

"a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups".

 

I guess you are a remainer that lost the referendum.

In our gerrymandered parliamentary process, an 80 seat majority is meaningless in terms of describing popular support. 43% of the vote is the true picture of democracy in the UK - the majority forced to go where they don't want to go. 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

As opposed to a left wing government messing up, screwing their country for the benefit of the few (usually including their own extended families of course) whilst denying reality and persecuting any who dare disagree you mean?

 

Indeed, common sense seems not sensible at all.

Have you been living in a cave these past few months? Have you been blind to our current government's very successful screwing over the majority for the benefit of their friends and families?

 

Jesus - I am actually astounded that you could write this, knowing what we know about the hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money that the government has handed out to non-companies; how they are stuffing key roles with friends and donors. Utter criminality and outright theft from Number 10 down - but oh those commies! No wonder the UK is the laughing stock of the world.

[PremiumLane]

28 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Deffo a Remainer I’d say. Lefty too and probably frustrated Corbynista. Jezza wasn’t very popular at all.

Couldn’t be Blairite because that left wing populist government really screwed the country for the benefit of a few. 

guess you ain't heard of a false dichotomy then ????  

 

I smell gammon too....

[Loiner]

16 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

guess you ain't heard of a false dichotomy then ????  

 

I smell gammon too....

Frustrated all round then? It's tough being a lefty liberal SJW isn't it? Wait until Trump is reelected, you'll be more than a bit vexed then. Deep breaths now......... 

 

[PremiumLane]

32 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I bet the people of Venezuela, Angola, Zimbabwe etc etc etc all feel well conned!

I could also make a list of successful social democratic countries, but I feel that would be just a cheap-shot ???? 

 

[PremiumLane]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Frustrated all round then? It's tough being a lefty liberal SJW isn't it? Wait until Trump is reelected, you'll be more than a bit vexed then. Deep breaths now......... 

 

Only one person getting triggered about here, and it ain't me ???? Guessing you haven't heard of a false dichotomy then 

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Only one person getting triggered about here, and it ain't me ???? Guessing you haven't heard of a false dichotomy then 

A one minute response! Guess you ain't heard of triggering either, cos yours is on a hair.

[vogie]

46 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

In our gerrymandered parliamentary process, an 80 seat majority is meaningless in terms of describing popular support. 43% of the vote is the true picture of democracy in the UK - the majority forced to go where they don't want to go. 

Now where have I heard that before?

 

 

[PremiumLane]

6 minutes ago, Loiner said:

A one minute response! Guess you ain't heard of triggering either, cos yours is on a hair.

called being online, and damn, for an Englishman I thought you would have a grasp of the English language by now? Two words you don't understand now... keep up Mr. Gammon 

[Loiner]

17 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

called being online, and damn, for an Englishman I thought you would have a grasp of the English language by now? Two words you don't understand now... keep up Mr. Gammon 

Is this what it means?

 

Isn't Gammon a waycist insult?

[RuamRudy]

40 minutes ago, vogie said:

Now where have I heard that before?

 

 

Probably election night if you were watching. Or maybe here, where I am regularly reminding anyone who may forget that Brexit was supported by barely a third of the country. 

[dunroaming]

4 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Well colour me shocked, another right wing populist government messing up and screwing their country for the benefit of a few. I guess common sense isn't so sensible after all

I wouldn't worry too much at the moment.  Boris sent Gove to Brussels to sort it out ????

 

After all the grandstanding Johnson will buckle and agree a deal.  He is not known as the U-turn kid for nothing! 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Probably election night if you were watching. Or maybe here, where I am regularly reminding anyone who may forget that Brexit was supported by barely a third of the country. 

Yes I agree, you often twist figures to suit. The rules of the game on the night was +1 majority, the leavers came away with well over a million majority. But it is the hypocracy of Scots Nats having a go at English Nats, is Scots Nats good and English Nats bad, as far as I'm concerned they are both bad. Now you are having a go at the Tories for only getting 40% of the votes and still got more votes than the SNP. I just cannot understand somebody having a go at another section of society whilst sharing the self same beliefs themselves.

 

[natway09]

I stated years ago that "fishing" is a huge stumbling block to a successful split.

There will be a "fishing war" before this is all over & the Brit's will lose.

Norway holds the key & they have yet to play a hand

[polpott]

Just now, natway09 said:

I stated years ago that "fishing" is a huge stumbling block to a successful split.

There will be a "fishing war" before this is all over & the Brit's will lose.

Norway holds the key & they have yet to play a hand

We call them "cod wars" in the UK. We've already lost 2 to Iceland. Third time lucky?

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes I agree, you often twist figures to suit. The rules of the game on the night was +1 majority, the leavers came away with well over a million majority. But it is the hypocracy of Scots Nats having a go at English Nats, is Scots Nats good and English Nats bad, as far as I'm concerned they are both bad. Now you are having a go at the Tories for only getting 40% of the votes and still got more votes than the SNP. I just cannot understand somebody having a go at another section of society whilst sharing the self same beliefs themselves.

 

Actually Vogie I think that Brexit has taken on a whole different shape to how it was before this pandemic threw an enormous spanner in the works.

[JonnyF]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes I agree, you often twist figures to suit. The rules of the game on the night was +1 majority, the leavers came away with well over a million majority. But it is the hypocracy of Scots Nats having a go at English Nats, is Scots Nats good and English Nats bad, as far as I'm concerned they are both bad. Now you are having a go at the Tories for only getting 40% of the votes and still got more votes than the SNP. I just cannot understand somebody having a go at another section of society whilst sharing the self same beliefs themselves.

 

They're massive hypocrites. If they get another Indyref and 50% of the nation don't bother to vote and the result is a vote to leave the UK by a majority of 1 you won't be hearing a peep from them about large majorities and voter turnout. Or second votes.

 

Same as they don't mention the SNP's low % of the votes to get elected.

 

They don't mention that Scotland leaving their biggest trading partner (the UK) is akin to the UK leaving the EU. 

 

Their belief that Scottish nationalism is good but English nationalism is bad.

 

The fact that their wish for Scotland to join the EU after leaving the UK is the opposite of Scottish Independence.

 

The list goes on and on. It's one rule for them and one rule for another. Their cognitive dissonance must be off the charts.

[OneMoreFarang]

And Boris is in charge. What could possibly go wrong?

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Actually Vogie I think that Brexit has taken on a whole different shape to how it was before this pandemic threw an enormous spanner in the works.

Just listened to Johnsons speech on radical changes to the education system and training in the UK to deal with the fallout from the pandemic and other factors.  Some interesting statements and plans and really need to study what is being said.   

[sawadee1947]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You mean that government that was voted in with over 80 seats in the HoC.

By the way what  government that is voted into power isn't populist.

 

Populism

"a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups".

 

I guess you are a remainer that lost the referendum.

BS. 

The point is that when you start a game you can't change the rules during the game for one side. 

It doesn't matter how many votes that government got..... they are foul players and law breakers. 

Nothing to do with Brexiteers or Remainers. ????

[RuamRudy]

 

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Just listened to Johnsons speech on radical changes to the education system and training in the UK to deal with the fallout from the pandemic and other factors.  Some interesting statements and plans and really need to study what is being said.   

Need to keep the future proles as pliant and dumb as their parents, else the Tories might struggle to win elections in the future.

 

Schools in England told not to use material from anti-capitalist groups

The government has ordered schools in England not to use resources from organisations which have expressed a desire to end capitalism.

 

[Rookiescot]

58 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

They're massive hypocrites. If they get another Indyref and 50% of the nation don't bother to vote and the result is a vote to leave the UK by a majority of 1 you won't be hearing a peep from them about large majorities and voter turnout. Or second votes.

 

Same as they don't mention the SNP's low % of the votes to get elected.

 

They don't mention that Scotland leaving their biggest trading partner (the UK) is akin to the UK leaving the EU. 

 

Their belief that Scottish nationalism is good but English nationalism is bad.

 

The fact that their wish for Scotland to join the EU after leaving the UK is the opposite of Scottish Independence.

 

The list goes on and on. It's one rule for them and one rule for another. Their cognitive dissonance must be off the charts.

50% +1 is the will of the people isnt it?

 

Far less than half the people who voted actually wanted Johnson. 43.6% in fact. Less than the SNP's 45%.

The SNP are averaging 55% support in the next Holyrood elections.

 

Leaving the UK will mean tariffs between Scotland and whats left of the UK but we are getting tariffs forced on us anyway because of Brexit so who cares.

 

Scottish nationalism is not based on us believing we are better than anyone else. We just want to be the same as everyone else. English nationalism is based on exceptionalism. That England is better than other nations.

 

IF we rejoin the EU that will be up to us. Our choice. This is of course a good example of how Scottish and English nationalism differs. Scotland is an outward looking nation on friendly terms with our European neighbors. England is not. We have no issue with freedom of movement. You guys do. We voted to remain in the EU. You guys voted to drag us out. 

 

You Brexiteers can have as much of a strop as you want but the fact remains Scottish independence is not up to you guys. Its up to the people who live in Scotland.

 

What is it about Scottish independence that you fear so much?

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

50% +1 is the will of the people isnt it?

 

Far less than half the people who voted actually wanted Johnson. 43.6% in fact. Less than the SNP's 45%.

The SNP are averaging 55% support in the next Holyrood elections.

 

Leaving the UK will mean tariffs between Scotland and whats left of the UK but we are getting tariffs forced on us anyway because of Brexit so who cares.

 

Scottish nationalism is not based on us believing we are better than anyone else. We just want to be the same as everyone else. English nationalism is based on exceptionalism. That England is better than other nations.

 

IF we rejoin the EU that will be up to us. Our choice. This is of course a good example of how Scottish and English nationalism differs. Scotland is an outward looking nation on friendly terms with our European neighbors. England is not. We have no issue with freedom of movement. You guys do. We voted to remain in the EU. You guys voted to drag us out. 

 

You Brexiteers can have as much of a strop as you want but the fact remains Scottish independence is not up to you guys. Its up to the people who live in Scotland.

 

What is it about Scottish independence that you fear so much?

Your whole post deserves the contempt I'm going to give it, but at least you got it off your chest.