charged as a tourist at Pattaya City (Buakhow) hospital despite work permit

[tgw]

I have a work permit and enjoy free doctor service and Thai prices for medicine at government hospitals.

 

I wanted to try out Pattaya City hospital in Soi Buakhow because its location is more convenient for me, but they wanted to charge me the same as a tourist. For charging me Thai prices, they required that I present some sort of social security card that is issued to employees, which according to my lawyer I am not entitled to because I am "boss".

The card is called "บัตรประกันสังคม"

 

I would like to know if "Pattaya City Hospital" is acting within its "public hospital" charter when charging work permit holders the same prices as tourists?

 

(and very ridiculous prices at that, 6 times the price for a Thai generic compared to a brand name medicine in Switzerland??)

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by tgw

[johng]

9 minutes ago, tgw said:

they required that I present some sort of social security card that is issued to employees, which according to my lawyer I am not entitled to because I am "boss".

The card is called "บัตรประกันสังคม"

I think even you as "the boss"   can pay social security payments ประกันสังคม  and then be entitled to the card/price after a short waiting period.

[timendres]

11 minutes ago, johng said:

I think even you as "the boss"   can pay social security payments ประกันสังคม  and then be entitled to the card/price after a short waiting period.

I would like confirmation of this, as my accountants insist that it is not possible.

[petermik]

Pattaya City Hospital is well known for it,s "treatment" where foreigners are concerned...avoid if at all possible....

[scubascuba3]

Yes avoid Pattaya City Hospital, they will over charge, certainly not govt rates, go to Bang Lamung hospital instead, fair pricing there, but it's well known that medication is frequently overpriced so don't buy it at hospital

[Sheryl]

You've been misinformed. A work permit does not entitle you to free care per se.

 

If you are enrolled under the Social Security scheme (most workers are except for those employed by private schools) then you are entitled to free care at one hospital where you are registered only, or any hospital it refers you to. If you go to a different hospital on your own accord (as opposed to being referred by your SS hospital) then you pay full price.

 

If you are under SS (you would know as there would be small monthly deductions from your pay check) then you need to find out which hospital you are registered at under the scheme. This can be changed if desired (certain times of the year only) and it is never a good idea to let your employer chose the hospital for you.

 

However it sounds like you may nto be eligible for SS. If this is the case, then you have no free cover anywhere. In that case you need to either set aside a large amount of cash to self insure or get private insurance.

 

The hospital was asking for proof of SS registration. Though nowadays it is a paperless system.

[brewsterbudgen]

I always assumed that any foreigner working here for an extended period would have health insurance provided by their employer, or their own policy.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I always assumed that any foreigner working here for an extended period would have health insurance provided by their employer, or their own policy.

 

Most people working here, except those employed by private schools, will be under the SS scheme.

 

Teachers at private schools get the short end of the stick on this as most schools opt not to participate in SS and instead offer private insurance of such low level cover as to be worthless.

 

 

[TheFreqFlyer]

Get some kind of expat or employer provided policy and use private hospitals only. Public hospitals are horrible. Overcrowded, typically third world. Avoid like the plague. 

[johng]

37 minutes ago, timendres said:

my accountants insist that it is not possible

Perhaps they think "dirty foreigners" are not eligible ? but they should be if working legally and paying social security payments

ประกันสังคม  even if the employer does not pay the employee can opt to pay by themself or continue payments whilst unemployed to maintain entitlement.

[bkk6060]

20 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Get some kind of expat or employer provided policy and use private hospitals only. Public hospitals are horrible. Overcrowded, typically third world. Avoid like the plague. 

I do not use them, I go private.  But, I know people who do and I have been inside these hospitals.

 

They can be crowded but I disagree with those that say the attention given is horrible.  In fact, the Doctors see a lot of patients and probably have as much, if not more experience making correct diagnosis then some of the private hospitals.  

 

 

[colinneil]

45 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

Get some kind of expat or employer provided policy and use private hospitals only. Public hospitals are horrible. Overcrowded, typically third world. Avoid like the plague. 

What a crazy thing to say, you reckon public hospitals are horrible, avoid like the plague.

Well i totally disagree with you, am only able to make this post, due to the skill/ dedication of doctors/ nurses at a public hospital here.

Now have you been a patient in a government hospital here?

Or have you just been listening to gossip?

[timendres]

2 hours ago, johng said:

Perhaps they think "dirty foreigners" are not eligible ? but they should be if working legally and paying social security payments

I am working legally, and paying income taxes, but I do not make social security payments, because as the owner of the company, I am not eligible.

[johng]

8 minutes ago, timendres said:

because as the owner of the company, I am not eligible.

Why are you not eligible  just because you own a company ? doesn't make sense to me but then again T.I.T

[timendres]

3 minutes ago, johng said:

Why are you not eligible  just because you own a company ? doesn't make sense to me but then again T.I.T

These types of rules are meant to deal with cheating sometimes. For example, in the US, the owner of the company is not eligible for unemployment compensation (yet still have to pay the tax). This is because the owner would be responsible for the decision to let himself go, hence leading to possible cheating. Not sure why the case for SS in TH.

[johng]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

This is because the owner would be responsible for the decision to let himself go, hence leading to possible cheating.

So  if the government ordered his company closed for 6 months due to a  "very dangerous"  virus and his business went bankrupt  he wouldn't be eligible for any social security..how about he came down with some debilitating disease or maimed in an accident  if it where me I'd be pretty peed off to have been paying that money only to be told  "not eligible"  when it was needed.

[sapson]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Teachers at private schools get the short end of the stick on this as most schools opt not to participate in SS and instead offer private insurance of such low level cover as to be worthless.

 

What happens if you work for an agency whos sends teachers to government schools and taxes you on your monthly salary and also provides a very minimal private health insurance policy.

 

If the agency has been deducting tax quite openly with everything shown on a pay slip for a year or more are you not also eligible for social security benefits as in full government hospital health cover since you have been paying tax and should be covered under Thai labour laws.

 

[JoePai]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Why are you not eligible  just because you own a company ? doesn't make sense to me but then again T.I.T

Because I would suspect he is a Director of a company

[Gulfsailor]

Director/owners are not eligible for social security, nor do they pay into the scheme. They are free to insure privately for disability/pension/health/unemployment, etc.

ps. This is the same for Thai directors/owners. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Gulfsailor

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, sapson said:

What happens if you work for an agency whos sends teachers to government schools and taxes you on your monthly salary and also provides a very minimal private health insurance policy.

 

If the agency has been deducting tax quite openly with everything shown on a pay slip for a year or more are you not also eligible for social security benefits as in full government hospital health cover since you have been paying tax and should be covered under Thai labour laws.

 

 

If employed by an agency that sends you to government schools you should be under the SS scheme. They can also provide private insurance if they want, but enrollment in SS is mandatory and they should be deducting from your salary accordingly. The SS exception is only for private schools.

 

Verify with the agency if you are covered under SS (and if so, what hospital they "assigned" you to, which you may wish to change). If it turns out you are not,  then should contact SS head office and complain.

 

 

[tgw]

4 hours ago, timendres said:

I am working legally, and paying income taxes, but I do not make social security payments, because as the owner of the company, I am not eligible.

yes, my lawyer told me the same.

 

but I read the Social Security Act 2533 and its amendment 2558, and it does not exclude "employers" from being eligible for social security. my guess is that this is a case of wrong interpretation of the law by Thai officials.

 

is there anyone here, shareholder and founder of a company who is also employed as a managing director, who was successfully registered with social security?

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

Director/owners are not eligible for social security, nor do they pay into the scheme. They are free to insure privately for disability/pension/health/unemployment, etc.

ps. This is the same for Thai directors/owners. 

but it's not what the law says.

 

here a clarification is needed: directors/owners are shareholders that don't necessarily hold employment with the company.

 

but I get a monthly salary form the company, that means I am also an employee. nothing in the social security act says that "employers" cannot at the same time also be "employees", and the sole criteria for being an employee is to receive a wage from the employer in exchange for performing work.

 

so according to the law, I am eligible for social security. now I need someone to explain this to officials.

 

 

[tgw]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

However it sounds like you may nto be eligible for SS. If this is the case, then you have no free cover anywhere. In that case you need to either set aside a large amount of cash to self insure or get private insurance.

according to the Social Security Act 2533 and 2558 I am eligible. But the Social Security Office says I'm not.

[rvaviator]

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

according to the Social Security Act 2533 and 2558 I am eligible. But the Social Security Office says I'm not.

Time to pay for legal advice then ...

[tgw]

Just now, rvaviator said:

Time to pay for legal advice then ...

yeah... my lawyer rang up the SS office...

I will need some heavier artillery.

[impulse]

20 minutes ago, tgw said:

according to the Social Security Act 2533 and 2558 I am eligible. But the Social Security Office says I'm not.

 

Reading and interpreting Thai law on your own without a thorough understanding of the complex tapestry around the law is always dangerous.

[tgw]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Reading and interpreting Thai law on your own without a thorough understanding of the complex tapestry around the law is always dangerous.

unless you can demonstrate such understanding yourself... talk is cheap

 

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, tgw said:

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

Reading and interpreting Thai law on your own without a thorough understanding of the complex tapestry around the law is always dangerous.

unless you can demonstrate such understanding yourself... talk is cheap

 

I don't pretend I have an understanding.  I think that's pretty clear from my statement.

 

Let us know how yours works out for you...

 

[tgw]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

I don't pretend I have an understanding.  I think that's pretty clear from my statement.

 

Let us know how yours works out for you...

I will let you know... I already contacted other lawyers, let's see what they say

Edited October 7, 2020 by tgw

[BigStar]

Though Pattaya City charged you as a tourist, were the charges still significantly less than you'd have paid at a private hsp?

 

I plan to try my pink ID there at some point. I already registered with it.