With pandemic dominating U.S. election, older voters turning away from Trump

[Phoenix Rising]

6 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

The idea I was trying to get across is that the polls are self serving, not to be trusted anymore in 2020 than 2016. Reuters spins every story to be anti-Trump.  I think Reuters is too political and not to be trusted. It does not make me feel better to have a predominantly left wing press in America. 

More rubbish. If you go to any respected media bias check website Reuters is considered one of the most neutral news outlets out there. But don't let facts get in the way of your little rant.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

The idea I was trying to get across is that the polls are self serving, not to be trusted anymore in 2020 than 2016. Reuters spins every story to be anti-Trump.  I think Reuters is too political and not to be trusted. It does not make me feel better to have a predominantly left wing press in America. 

No. You're wrong about Reuters. They are legitimately trying to do accurate polls. So is Fox. The best way to see whats happening is to look at fivethirtyeight.com which shows many polls put together to get an average.

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/national/

 

Biden 52

Potus 42

 

Reuters announced what they thought they got wrong in 2016. They are always trying to improve their methods. It had nothing to do with political bias.

 

Obviously polls are polls and elections are elections. 

 

It ain't over until the fat man cries.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Jingthing

[stevenl]

36 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

The idea I was trying to get across is that the polls are self serving, not to be trusted anymore in 2020 than 2016. Reuters spins every story to be anti-Trump.  I think Reuters is too political and not to be trusted. It does not make me feel better to have a predominantly left wing press in America. 

So where is the spin in this news?

[Dumbastheycome]

46 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So where is the spin in this news?

I think it on a spot. Like a child's top. Slowing down and getting the wobbles until eventually it topples  and  slews away .

[BadBouy]

By Chris Kahn and James Oliphant

 

Two Democrat operatives  , I am sure there is no bias in this piece. I spent the summer in an over 50 community Biden supporters 1 in 15 butt I was not in CA

[candide]

1 hour ago, BadBouy said:

By Chris Kahn and James Oliphant

 

Two Democrat operatives  , I am sure there is no bias in this piece. I spent the summer in an over 50 community Biden supporters 1 in 15 butt I was not in CA

I am sure your personal polling method is more reliable than the one used by Ipsos and other polling organizations! ????

[joecoolfrog]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:42 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

End of the day, the voters seem more than happy with the results of the last 4 years. Now while I am convinced there is some way to spin that a higher rating is a bad thing, I will take it at face value. One possible reason for such a disconnect with Biden/Trump polls could be the question is not "risky" to answer in the same way that a direct "do you support Trump" question could be?

 

"More American voters believe they are better off after four years under President Donald Trump than they did at the end of the first terms of former presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush, new polling data has revealed.

The latest survey from Gallup found that a clear majority of registered voters (56 percent) believed they were better off now compared to four years ago."

https://www.newsweek.com/more-voters-better-off-donald-trump-first-term-obama-bush-1537759

Well 210 ,000 and counting are definitely worse off , and that's a fact.

[joecoolfrog]

On 10/10/2020 at 1:21 AM, Boon Mee said:

Yup, just more Fake News from the Lamestream Media. If anything, Trump's "Oldster" support is through the roof. 

My dear Aunt whose neighborhood there in Palm Springs, California tells moi that she sees virtually zero Biden signs on lawns there. Nothing but Trump as far as the eye can see! ???? 

 

MAGA 

Oh well , if you say so it MUST be true 555

[joecoolfrog]

Of course the elderly are turning against Trump , they have seen friends die in the thousands.

How do you think they felt when Trump said tonight that the virus was over , on a day when 55,000 more US citizens were infected ?

I have no idea why they swallowed his blatant lies for so long , but many have wised up now.

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by joecoolfrog

[teacherclaire]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:53 PM, PattayaJames said:

A touching story.

However, from your post the only issue you seem to have with Trump is that he has a ridiculous hairstyle and a gigantic obese woman's butt. I guess you are OK with his small hands though.

Perhaps you should consider his policies?

 

What's wrong with it? 

[Tippaporn]

13 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

Labels were not around in the day when presidents did not suggest people inject bleach.

 

You have been going around in circles trying to defend the fact that Trump suggested injecting bleach. It is on camera, we all saw it. I think the only person you are trying to convince is yourself becaue you are not convincing anyone else

 

For one, people here repeat falsehoods and though the falsehoods are clearly shown to be falsehoods they knowingly and willingly repeat them anyway.  Trump never used the word 'bleach' but rather 'disinfectant.'  Yet you, for example, are still using the wrong term.  There's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.  That's one of the ways we go round and round.

 

Another way we go round and round is because some folks here continue to claim that Trump's suggestion for the injection of a disinfectant was a suggestion he addressed to the population when in fact it was a suggestion directed to the medical staff, to which he turned to as he was making his suggestion, as a possibility that the medical profession may want to consider and explore.  While this is so patently obvious, and true, still it is knowingly and willing being falsely interpreted.  Again, there's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.

 

Now DSD has provided us with this:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

 

  Quote

 

“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”
 

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”
 

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that “under no circumstance” should its products be used in the human body.

I've highlighted the specific quotes by Trump which clearly show whom he was addressing while making his suggestion and also showing clearly that he was asking . . . asking . . . those medical professionals whether injecting a disinfectant would be feasible.  I've reposted the video but with one difference . . . it begins at the exact moment Trump turns to the medical staff to address them on his suggestion.

 

 

Many posters here are using the fact that some companies and state agencies felt compelled to issue warnings about injecting disinfectants, on their own accord without medical presence or direction, as proof that Trump's suggestion was directed at the population.  The logic provided by these posters, sometimes posed as a question, is why else would these companies and state agencies feel compelled to issue warnings if it weren't true that Trump's suggestion was directed specifically at the general population?

 

The answer would include a number of factors.  For one, the initial media reaction was to twist it all up, as is being done here; put out a false interpretation, or framing, and to maintain it adamantly.  We all know that the MSM hates Trump and will do everything in their power to damage Trump, whether the means are legitimate or illegitimate, moral or immoral.  Hopefully we can agree on that patently obvious (and provable) point.  Another factor would be the stories which followed of spikes in reports to poison control centers.  Calls were for information, direction or confirmation regarding the use of disinfectants to treat Covid, and a portion involved people actually ingesting disinfectants.  Through multiple key search phrases I have been unable to find a single report of anyone dying as a result.

 

Hence my posting regarding the seeming necessity of consumer warning labels these days.  There is no doubt that are numbers of people wholly devoid of critical thinking skills and require warning labels to make them aware, for instance, that the hot coffee they ordered is indeed hot.

 

Since the MSM is so blinkered these days I hold no doubts that they would seize on any instances of these reports or incidents and portray these unthinking fools, in my opinion, as being representative of normal, everyday Americans at large.

 

To go back to the beginning, as to why we go round and round on this issue and so many others, it is because the truth is so often rejected and falsities substituted instead.  And no matter how often the truth is shown, and even proven beyond any chance of deniability, falsity is unwaveringly insisted upon and the truth continually denied.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:51 PM, Morch said:

 

Bias is a matter of degree. It is perfectly acceptable to have differing views, differing opinions. It's even alright to hold on to some measure of irrational notions. So long as facts can be agreed upon - again, to a degree allowing a dialogue.

 

When the entirety of the other side's views is discarded, when verifiable facts are ignored, doubted, or dismissed - there's little room for discussion. Your posts are often a display of such an attitude.

Posts such as the below don't encourage discussion.

 

On 10/10/2020 at 3:44 PM, newnative said:

I think it's not just older voters 'turning away'.  Hopefully, it's everyone with a functioning brain.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The poster you are addressing spent years working in the Antarctic, and rejects clear evidence the Larsen Ice Shelf is melting at an unprecedented rate.

Quote where I "rejected" clear evidence the Larsen ice shelf is melting at an unprecedented rate, and give a reason for injecting personal comments about another poster.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

You reject the collapse of the Larsen B Ice Shelf in 2002?   https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/LarsenB

NO.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

For one, people here repeat falsehoods and though the falsehoods are clearly shown to be falsehoods they knowingly and willingly repeat them anyway.  Trump never used the word 'bleach' but rather 'disinfectant.'  Yet you, for example, are still using the wrong term.  There's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.  That's one of the ways we go round and round.

 

Another way we go round and round is because some folks here continue to claim that Trump's suggestion for the injection of a disinfectant was a suggestion he addressed to the population when in fact it was a suggestion directed to the medical staff, to which he turned to as he was making his suggestion, as a possibility that the medical profession may want to consider and explore.  While this is so patently obvious, and true, still it is knowingly and willing being falsely interpreted.  Again, there's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.

 

Now DSD has provided us with this:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

 

  Quote

 

“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”
 

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”
 

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that “under no circumstance” should its products be used in the human body.

I've highlighted the specific quotes by Trump which clearly show whom he was addressing while making his suggestion and also showing clearly that he was asking . . . asking . . . those medical professionals whether injecting a disinfectant would be feasible.  I've reposted the video but with one difference . . . it begins at the exact moment Trump turns to the medical staff to address them on his suggestion.

 

 

Many posters here are using the fact that some companies and state agencies felt compelled to issue warnings about injecting disinfectants, on their own accord without medical presence or direction, as proof that Trump's suggestion was directed at the population.  The logic provided by these posters, sometimes posed as a question, is why else would these companies and state agencies feel compelled to issue warnings if it weren't true that Trump's suggestion was directed specifically at the general population?

 

The answer would include a number of factors.  For one, the initial media reaction was to twist it all up, as is being done here; put out a false interpretation, or framing, and to maintain it adamantly.  We all know that the MSM hates Trump and will do everything in their power to damage Trump, whether the means are legitimate or illegitimate, moral or immoral.  Hopefully we can agree on that patently obvious (and provable) point.  Another factor would be the stories which followed of spikes in reports to poison control centers.  Calls were for information, direction or confirmation regarding the use of disinfectants to treat Covid, and a portion involved people actually ingesting disinfectants.  Through multiple key search phrases I have been unable to find a single report of anyone dying as a result.

 

Hence my posting regarding the seeming necessity of consumer warning labels these days.  There is no doubt that are numbers of people wholly devoid of critical thinking skills and require warning labels to make them aware, for instance, that the hot coffee they ordered is indeed hot.

 

Since the MSM is so blinkered these days I hold no doubts that they would seize on any instances of these reports or incidents and portray these unthinking fools, in my opinion, as being representative of normal, everyday Americans at large.

 

To go back to the beginning, as to why we go round and round on this issue and so many others, it is because the truth is so often rejected and falsities substituted instead.  And no matter how often the truth is shown, and even proven beyond any chance of deniability, falsity is unwaveringly insisted upon and the truth continually denied.

"The answer would include a number of factors.  For one, the initial media reaction was to twist it all up, as is being done here; put out a false interpretation, or framing, and to maintain it adamantly."

 

I assume you are aware that Trump got his foot in the door of politics by repeating the Obama birther conspiracy lie, has many supporters who continue to support his lie about millions of illegal votes for Clinton, and is now propagating the lie that mail in ballots will lead to massive fraud.

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

NO.

That's nice, but I wasn't replying to your post.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Posts such as the below don't encourage discussion.

 

 

 

So is the one you made. Because

 

- the post you quoted was neither my own nor the poster I responded to.

- there was not claim made that such posts belong solely to one side.

- my own comment was referencing a specific poster's brand of posts, you're just deflecting with a variation of whataboutism.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That's nice, but I wasn't replying to your post.

??????????????????????????????

 

Didn't you ask me this?

 

"You reject the collapse of the Larsen B Ice Shelf in 2002?"

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

For one, people here repeat falsehoods and though the falsehoods are clearly shown to be falsehoods they knowingly and willingly repeat them anyway.  Trump never used the word 'bleach' but rather 'disinfectant.'  Yet you, for example, are still using the wrong term.  There's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.  That's one of the ways we go round and round.

 

Another way we go round and round is because some folks here continue to claim that Trump's suggestion for the injection of a disinfectant was a suggestion he addressed to the population when in fact it was a suggestion directed to the medical staff, to which he turned to as he was making his suggestion, as a possibility that the medical profession may want to consider and explore.  While this is so patently obvious, and true, still it is knowingly and willing being falsely interpreted.  Again, there's a refusal to acknowledge the truth.

 

Now DSD has provided us with this:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

 

  Quote

 

“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”
 

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”
 

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that “under no circumstance” should its products be used in the human body.

I've highlighted the specific quotes by Trump which clearly show whom he was addressing while making his suggestion and also showing clearly that he was asking . . . asking . . . those medical professionals whether injecting a disinfectant would be feasible.  I've reposted the video but with one difference . . . it begins at the exact moment Trump turns to the medical staff to address them on his suggestion.

 

 

Many posters here are using the fact that some companies and state agencies felt compelled to issue warnings about injecting disinfectants, on their own accord without medical presence or direction, as proof that Trump's suggestion was directed at the population.  The logic provided by these posters, sometimes posed as a question, is why else would these companies and state agencies feel compelled to issue warnings if it weren't true that Trump's suggestion was directed specifically at the general population?

 

The answer would include a number of factors.  For one, the initial media reaction was to twist it all up, as is being done here; put out a false interpretation, or framing, and to maintain it adamantly.  We all know that the MSM hates Trump and will do everything in their power to damage Trump, whether the means are legitimate or illegitimate, moral or immoral.  Hopefully we can agree on that patently obvious (and provable) point.  Another factor would be the stories which followed of spikes in reports to poison control centers.  Calls were for information, direction or confirmation regarding the use of disinfectants to treat Covid, and a portion involved people actually ingesting disinfectants.  Through multiple key search phrases I have been unable to find a single report of anyone dying as a result.

 

Hence my posting regarding the seeming necessity of consumer warning labels these days.  There is no doubt that are numbers of people wholly devoid of critical thinking skills and require warning labels to make them aware, for instance, that the hot coffee they ordered is indeed hot.

 

Since the MSM is so blinkered these days I hold no doubts that they would seize on any instances of these reports or incidents and portray these unthinking fools, in my opinion, as being representative of normal, everyday Americans at large.

 

To go back to the beginning, as to why we go round and round on this issue and so many others, it is because the truth is so often rejected and falsities substituted instead.  And no matter how often the truth is shown, and even proven beyond any chance of deniability, falsity is unwaveringly insisted upon and the truth continually denied.

I know what you mean about the MSM. When will they ever stop reporting on things that he does or actually says?

It's just soooooooooooooo unfair.

[John Drake]

I'm turning from Trump not because I think senile Biden or Kommissar Kamela are any better. I reject him because of his destruction of the value of the dollar and my savings, pushing interest on savings to literally nothing and printing money out of thin air. All to force people into the stock market casino, which is the only thing he cares about.

[J Town]

24 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I'm turning from Trump not because I think senile Biden or Kommissar Kamela are any better. I reject him because of his destruction of the value of the dollar and my savings, pushing interest on savings to literally nothing and printing money out of thin air. All to force people into the stock market casino, which is the only thing he cares about.

The reason is unimportant. You're doing the right thing. Kudos.

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed:

 

25) No public discussion is allowed with regard to other forum members

[Sujo]

Biden/harris or Putin/trump.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Quote where I "rejected" clear evidence the Larsen ice shelf is melting at an unprecedented rate, and give a reason for injecting personal comments about another poster.

 

 

If you want me to trawl back through every post you have made to find where you said that, do it yourself. I have better things to do with my time. You deny climate change, ergo you reject the Larsen Ice Shelf is melting.

Presumably I have transgressed in the other respect. Sometimes that happens when I am irritated by people who ignore facts and evidence..

Edited October 11, 2020 by Lacessit

[Tippaporn]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

"The answer would include a number of factors.  For one, the initial media reaction was to twist it all up, as is being done here; put out a false interpretation, or framing, and to maintain it adamantly."

 

I assume you are aware that Trump got his foot in the door of politics by repeating the Obama birther conspiracy lie, has many supporters who continue to support his lie about millions of illegal votes for Clinton, and is now propagating the lie that mail in ballots will lead to massive fraud.

 

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

I know what you mean about the MSM. When will they ever stop reporting on things that he does or actually says?

It's just soooooooooooooo unfair.

Two weak responses and neither addresses my post's points.  One is a tit-for-tat response and the other is sarcastic ridicule.  Are my points valid or not?

[pookondee]

23 hours ago, polpott said:

Its called "having consideration for others" or "putting others before yourself". Concepts a Trump supporter could never understand.

 

What did Hillary call you? The Deplorables? Sounds about right to me.

 

 

So actually you said the exact same thing there...

"putting others before yourself"

 

Well, i am 62 y.o.

I would not trade 100% immunity from Covid if it means the youth have no jobs, no industry, no international travel or tourism..

No future AND NO LIFE..

 

We have had the above things in abundance..

let the youth have some of that also, instead of shutting down the whole world!

[stevenl]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you want me to trawl back through every post you have made to find where you said that, do it yourself. I have better things to do with my time. You deny climate change, ergo you reject the Larsen Ice Shelf is melting.

Presumably I have transgressed in the other respect. Sometimes that happens when I am irritated by people who ignore facts and evidence..

From previous discussions about this, tbl thinks manmade climate change is real, but it is too late to do anything about it.

[earlinclaifornia]

On 10/10/2020 at 8:23 AM, Emdog said:

"Fool me once: shame on you

Try to fool me twice: I'm not voting for you"

My brother is a life long Republican. He totally hated Obama, almost to a pathological level. I gave up talking politics with him.

Amazingly, he thinks Trump is a total idiot screwup. He volunteered that view. I haven't asked if he's going to vote for Biden, but I figure just recognizing Trump for what he is is half the battle

exactly my view, thanks

"Fool me once: shame on you

Try to fool me twice: I'm not voting for you"

Why I feel Republicans can recover

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Two weak responses and neither addresses my post's points.  One is a tit-for-tat response and the other is sarcastic ridicule.  Are my points valid or not?

In other words, you will quibble about the meaning of Trump's suggestion about injecting disinfectant, and ignore his routine and repeated lying about birtherism, illegal voting, security of mail in ballots, etc.

 

I didn't enter into the debate about Trump's recommendation about bleach until you suggested that only the anti-Trump crowd will repeat lies until they are accepted as truth.  That is such an obvious case of gas-lighting I had to comment.  Repeating lies so often they are accepted as truth is the bread and butter of conspiracy theorists, and Trump is nothing if not an opportunistic conspiracy theorist.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

exactly my view, thanks

"Fool me once: shame on you

Try to fool me twice: I'm not voting for you"

Why I feel Republicans can recover

I have a friend, UVa graduate, successful entrepreneur and hard core Republican until Trump.

 

Now he is still a proper old school traditional conservative Republican, but as anti-Trump as anyone can be.

 

As I've said before, the biggest RINO around is the current Republican party.