With pandemic dominating U.S. election, older voters turning away from Trump

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nah, I never got snow blindness.

I hope you realise that for everything you say against Trump I could find something to say against Biden, but no matter. Having seen Harris for the first time in the VP debate I'd vote for Trump just to stop her becoming president.

Conversely, I'd love to see Pence in the big chair. That's a prospect that probably frightens Dems, and if it doesn't it should.

I doubt you will find biden being bankrupt multiple times, charity fraud, university fraud, paying porn stars.

 

He certainly isnt a successful business man and under his watch the US is a basket case. 

[2 is 1]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you can list Biden's accomplishments in a long political career that would prove he'd make a good president.

Trump got 2 conservative justices on SCOTUS- that alone makes him successful. Hopefully 3 before the end of the year.

Trump took the US out of the Trans Pacific agreement, the Iran thing, and the Paris climate accord- I'd vote for him based on just those 3 decisions alone. If Biden were president he's probably going to suck up to China and re enter the Paris accord, which are a couple of reasons I would never vote for him.

So what is wrong whit Paris Agreement!? You are not educated enough to believe climate has chance or you just not believe that? Almost every other coundry is wrong and Trump is right?

Usa belong to list where is coundry's : Iran , Libya, Yemen , South Sudan , Turkey, Eritrea!

Good Trump share this thing whit Iran!

 

 

Old picture US still in this time!

And out off deal whit Iran, that not make sense! 

What kind nation normaly want fight? That kind who's dont have nothing to loose! Trump make Iran nation more suffering whit hes desition. And now they maybe continue to develop nuke!

But everybody have they opinion even it's really wrong!

 

[polpott]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

You can't spin truth.  It is what it is.  Only false narratives are spun from a distortion of truth.

Correct. So you agree that he was a totally irresponsible idiot for saying what he said.

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

You can't spin truth.  It is what it is.  Only false narratives are spun from a distortion of truth.

Truth? From a supporter of mr 20,000 lies. Your having a laugh.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you can list Biden's accomplishments in a long political career that would prove he'd make a good president.

Trump got 2 conservative justices on SCOTUS- that alone makes him successful. Hopefully 3 before the end of the year.

Trump took the US out of the Trans Pacific agreement, the Iran thing, and the Paris climate accord- I'd vote for him based on just those 3 decisions alone. If Biden were president he's probably going to suck up to China and re enter the Paris accord, which are a couple of reasons I would never vote for him.

It's called isolationism. Trump appealing to Xi to help him get re-elected, that's not sucking up to China?

If you regard bailing out of the Paris accord a success, hello climate change denier.

Now look at Trump's failures. Coronavirus, easy to win trade war, nothing to replace Obamacare, a nation riven by polarisation almost at the point of civil war.

I don't know what Biden brings to the table. However, it has to be better than Trump.

[newnative]

I think it's not just older voters 'turning away'.  Hopefully, it's everyone with a functioning brain.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Are they still pushing the long since debunked "drinking bleach" fallacy?  I guess if Biden is repeating the same lie it's O.K.?

 

Austin American-Statesman (slightly left leaning bias with a high factual rating) - Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

 

“And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up,” said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

 

Maybe the President ought to exercise more care with his words. Especially during a pandemic related crisis. Shooting from the hip comes with a price.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

But in the debate pence said the US has done better than the target set in the paris accord. You vote for him because he got out of the accord but then exceeded that target? That makes no sense at all.

 

Appointing 2 justices is a matter of fate/luck, it has nothing to do with success.

 

How has leaving the iran thing been successful?

The accord makes claims like

All countries need to step up, accept that global emissions must reach net zero by 2050 and take very large steps to make it happen, says Niklas Höhne of the NewClimate Institute for Climate Policy and Global Sustainability in Germany.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/11/nations-miss-paris-targets-climate-driven-weather-events-cost-billions/

Which IMO are pie in the sky ravings.

 

It's also designed to transfer billions from western countries to poor countries for IMO ideological reasons.

 

The US is capable of achieving climate targets without surrendering to bureaucrats in another country and giving away much treasure.

 

Yes, Trump is a lucky man.

 

If you don't know why the Iran thing was a bad deal you can look it up. I can't educate you about it on here in 5 minutes.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I respectfully disagree with your entire summation, darksidedog, but thank you for your recognition of my tenacity.

 

Here's the problem as I see it.  You can speak absolute truth but can then be called out for stating false information.  I'll cite an example which I posted above.

 

The drinking bleach accusation against Trump is completely false.  He never spoke those words.  Yet though it is false it continues to be repeated, even here on TVF.  No matter how much you attempt to inject the truth (pun intended) you will still be accused of stating something which is false.

 

Bias is a formidable barrier to seeing the truth.  What to do?

 

"Which represents pretty much every post you make."

 

This statement is completely false and I can easily prove it.

 

Bias is a matter of degree. It is perfectly acceptable to have differing views, differing opinions. It's even alright to hold on to some measure of irrational notions. So long as facts can be agreed upon - again, to a degree allowing a dialogue.

 

When the entirety of the other side's views is discarded, when verifiable facts are ignored, doubted, or dismissed - there's little room for discussion. Your posts are often a display of such an attitude.

[mtls2005]

With ~ 51 million American age 65 or older this is a significant demographic. 

 

But honestly unless they live in AZ, MI, WI, PA, NC or FL it hardly matters.

 

They have a pretty high turn-out in aggregate but that is highest with the highest level of education (80%), and goes down for non-college to ~ 40% for less than high school.

 

trump's highest appeal is to non-college, white, elderly males. Not sure if there are enough of them, in the right states?

[J Town]

26 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You can't spin truth.  It is what it is.  Only false narratives are spun from a distortion of truth.

What 45 supporters continually fail to understand is his words have consequences. He mused out loud about injecting disinfectant. That is a fact, you can't spin it away. The number of people who took that as gospel and poisoned themselves rose. That is a fact and you can't spin it away. Even Ann Coulter admitted years ago what a blatant liar he is. 45 has lied and as a result people have died. How can anyone with a brain find that acceptable?

 

https://time.com/5835244/accidental-poisonings-trump/

[Sujo]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The accord makes claims like

All countries need to step up, accept that global emissions must reach net zero by 2050 and take very large steps to make it happen, says Niklas Höhne of the NewClimate Institute for Climate Policy and Global Sustainability in Germany.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2019/11/nations-miss-paris-targets-climate-driven-weather-events-cost-billions/

Which IMO are pie in the sky ravings.

 

It's also designed to transfer billions from western countries to poor countries for IMO ideological reasons.

 

The US is capable of achieving climate targets without surrendering to bureaucrats in another country and giving away much treasure.

 

Yes, Trump is a lucky man.

 

If you don't know why the Iran thing was a bad deal you can look it up. I can't educate you about it on here in 5 minutes.

So trump pulled out of the accord because of unnaceptable targets but then exceeded those targets.

 

How has pulling out of the iran deal made it better.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Clutching and straws comes to mind.

They, IMO, think if they keep claiming that various groups are "turning away from Trump" the undecided will believe it and vote for the other old rich white man.

Dream on.

Four more years.

 

Oh, "they" again? They who?

 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

A President should never say anything publicly without considering how it might be interpreted and choosing his words carefully.  Wars have been started (the Korean War and the first Iraq War) because the US policies regarding defending South Korea and Kuwait were misinterpreted.  I have no doubt that Khashoggi was killed because Saudi Arabia took Trump's contempt for a free press as a green light to murder troublesome journalists.

 

Responsible Presidents always choose their words carefully.  Trump is not a responsible President.

 

 

 

We begin bombing in five minutes...

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

You can't spin truth.  It is what it is.  Only false narratives are spun from a distortion of truth.

 

Well, you and other Trump supporters (never mind the man himself) do try your best.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nothing you said in that post proves that Biden is a better candidate, IMO. Pity that the Dems chose a candidate that is IMO so bad that people will vote for a scoundrel like Trump in preference to him!

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Many of us think Trump is a total idiot screwup, but still a better choice than Biden.

 

And yet, somehow, you never seem to have any issues with the Republican Party for the candidate they fielded. All you complaints on this score are leveled at the opposition.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump was elected, IMO, BECAUSE he isn't a normal politician. The people that voted for him did so, IMO because he was rough and unpolished and said things he shouldn't just like a normal person does. The average person, IMO, no longer identifies with career politicians that have never done a real job their entire lives.

 

Yeah, sure. And the next time Trump lies are referenced, you'll claim something like 'all politicians lie'. It is just a matter of convenience. As for doing a 'real job' - did you miss the part about Trump inheriting his money?  

[Morch]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have many times said I support him as better than the other candidate, but I've also said that I'd have supported Bernie over him, and that he is not the best person to be president. Sadly, IMO, US politics is so broken that the choice has come down to 2 old rich white men and one has to choose the least worst of the 2. IMO Trump is the least worse of the only 2 viable candidates on offer.

Ergo I do support Trump, but only as he's a better, IMO, choice than Biden. Had the Dems put up a decent candidate with acceptable policies I'd support them instead.

 

That boat sailed long ago. Hardly credible seeing how you celebrate almost all of Trump's nonsense, bad behavior, crazy stuff and whatnot. Defending pretty much everything he does or says, deflecting pretty much any criticism offered. 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you can list Biden's accomplishments in a long political career that would prove he'd make a good president.

Trump got 2 conservative justices on SCOTUS- that alone makes him successful. Hopefully 3 before the end of the year.

Trump took the US out of the Trans Pacific agreement, the Iran thing, and the Paris climate accord- I'd vote for him based on just those 3 decisions alone. If Biden were president he's probably going to suck up to China and re enter the Paris accord, which are a couple of reasons I would never vote for him.

Perhaps you can list Biden's accomplishments. 

 

Haven't bothered to look up his voting record for legislation during his career, but some bullet points:

 

https://www.miamidadedems.org/joe-biden-accomplishments-list

 

Stacking the Supreme Court with conservative judges is obviously a personal opinion matter regards a plus, but trump did not have a mandate from the majority of voters to do so, an unfortunate glitch in the US political system.

 

Trump took the US out of the Trans Pacific agreement

 

The majority would say it was a strategic error by trump to withdraw, especially taking on board his failure to date of a trade war with PRC.

 

https://www.rand.org/blog/2017/03/strategic-consequences-of-us-withdrawal-from-tpp.html

 

If Biden were president, he's probably going to suck up to China

 

There is no evidence with Biden's current policy position to support this claim

 

Paris Accord

 

Already answered by other members

 

Unilateral withdrawal from P5+1

 

To date no proven advantage for peace in the M.E., only more misery for the Iranian people and damaging relations with EU signatories, plus politically advantaging Russia and China.

 

There are plenty of links I can provide, but for the moment the TPP link is sufficient to ascertain whether you will bother to inform yourself in order to reply.

 

 

 

 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump was elected, IMO, BECAUSE he isn't a normal politician. The people that voted for him did so, IMO because he was rough and unpolished and said things he shouldn't just like a normal person does. The average person, IMO, no longer identifies with career politicians that have never done a real job their entire lives.

Yes, we've all read those and similar words many times.

 

These words completely ignore the need for Presidents to think before they speak, otherwise wars, assassinations, and other bad things happen. 

 

Once again:  Responsible Presidents always choose their words carefully.  Trump is not a responsible President.

[heybruce]

18 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

We begin bombing in five minutes...

For those who are young or have poor memories, that was Ronald Reagan making an attempt at a joke when he thought he was off-mike.  It was not well received.

[Average man]

The virus has probably turned some voters away from Trump but voters probable through up over the thought of biden or Harris being president .

do you think shutting down the economy for a year or two would help.do youthinkgoverment would take care of people for a year or two . They can’t even get a second stimulus done in 9 months of virus . Biden wants lockdown and higher taxes, how is that gonna help anyone that has to work for a living .

 

[Sujo]

6 minutes ago, Average man said:

The virus has probably turned some voters away from Trump but voters probable through up over the thought of biden or Harris being president .

do you think shutting down the economy for a year or two would help.do youthinkgoverment would take care of people for a year or two . They can’t even get a second stimulus done in 9 months of virus . Biden wants lockdown and higher taxes, how is that gonna help anyone that has to work for a living .

 

Biden wants noting of the sort. What he will do is follow the science.

 

How is the economy now?

[Ireland32]

16 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  The article is attempting to factualize using polling data from a leftist news outlet.  You can't make this stuff up.

Kool aid overdose 

[Brickbat]

Just on our climate catastrophe , they need to dump this clown.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Seeing-climate-change-from-space?utm_campaign=RN Free newsletter&utm_medium=opinion_newsletter_free&utm_source=NAR Newsletter&utm_content=article link&del_type=6&pub_date=20201010093000&seq_num=6&si=07107445

 

it’s laughable how Trum-Pets class any factual view on this ludicrous administration as from the Left .

[wwest5829]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

 

So, as usual, nonsense when cannot address a point, on when it's demonstrated you're wrong.

Forget wasting your time on him. He's bent and nothing, especially fact will have any effect on his bent thinking.

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, Average man said:

The virus has probably turned some voters away from Trump but voters probable through up over the thought of biden or Harris being president .

do you think shutting down the economy for a year or two would help.do youthinkgoverment would take care of people for a year or two . They can’t even get a second stimulus done in 9 months of virus . Biden wants lockdown and higher taxes, how is that gonna help anyone that has to work for a living .

 

Biden said he would lock down the economy "if necessary".  Of course if more people would wear masks and not engage in risky activities it wouldn't be necessary.

 

Biden said he would raise taxes on corporations and those making over $400,000 a year.  Nobody likes taxes, but the budget deficit was going through the ceiling before Covid 19 struck, and has really sky-rocketed since then.  It has to be brought down.

 

It takes both parties to get a second stimulus done.  Democrats are willing to work on it, Trump isn't.

Edited October 10, 2020 by heybruce

[spidermike007]

President Trump on Thursday twice referred to Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) as a "monster" following her debate performance against Vice President Pence the evening prior. Trump’s comments, made in his first interview since his coronavirus diagnosis, were made during an exchange about Biden’s fitness for office. Trump claimed that Biden “won’t be president for two months” if elected because he is not “mentally capable of being president,” before tearing into Harris. In my opinion, the word monster is a dog whistle for a powerful, successful woman, who Trump cannot deal with, on any level. They represent his nemesis. It may also be a misogynistic term, and possibly a racist reference. Either way, he lost even most votes with his insane ranting. 

 

Trump deserves condemnation as often as it can be dished out. At this stage, he is getting an exceptionally low number of decisions, statements, policies, and guesses right. And he has come up with absolutely zero in 49 months, to replace Obamacare with. I am not fond of Obamacare. It has driven up costs dramatically. But, if you are going to open you big mouth and criticize your opponent on health care, when you promised you would find something better, then did nothing, it sounds a bit inane and toothless.

Trump is faltering in a way I never thought I would see happen. He looks weak, feeble, feckless, anemic, and rather lackluster. He is going to lose badly. He is going to be humiliated in a way he never has before. I cannot wait to see that happens. The planet waits with baited breath.

Most of us who are level headed, and have not sampled any of the kool aid, believe there is less than a 1% chance of a second term. One cannot eat cheeseburgers as a dietary staple, avoid all forms of exercise (swinging a golf club, and driving around in a cart all day does not count one iota), and get away with that forever. Once the people saw through this tax plan, and realized it is just a massive transfer of wealth from the middle and lower classes, to the corporations, the top 5%, all bets were off. You add in the massive failures of Hurricane Maria, and Covid, and now the revelation that everything he touches fails, with his businesses, and people are seeing right through the self created myth of Little Don. 

 

After Trump is unceremoniously ushered out of DC in January, when he reluctantly and bitterly hands the reins over the a far more capable man, political scientists and opinion writers will spend years dissecting the mad experiment of the Trump presidency, when democracy was nearly lost to a wannabe despot ruler, who ignored the rule of law, at every opportunity.
He has succeeded on a few levels. He has made the US the laughing stock of the world. He has allowed the US to become the most radioactive nation on earth, with over 7 million Covid cases, many of which are directly attributed to his polices, his ignorance, his willingness to ignore multiple warmings by experts, and his hubris. Granted, the rest can be linked to the world's highest levels of heart disease, diabetes, and morbid obesity, combined with a horrific diet. He has severely eroded and nearly destroyed alliances that took decades to build. He has succeeded in allowing China to emerge from all of this looking strong and smart, and he has succeeded in making himself look like an out of touch fool, a relic, and a terrible leader. Barr has acted as his personal lawyer, and next year he too will unceremoniously depart Washington into a life of obscurity and ridicule.

 

Is Trump now totally unhinged? You be the judge. He is panicked. His numbers are dropping daily, and he is facing the greatest humiliation of his lifetime, and he is melting down before our eyes. And frankly, it is a fun thing to witness, knowing he is about to lose the election by 7-13 million votes.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by spidermike007

[onthedarkside]

15 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Are they still pushing the long since debunked "drinking bleach" fallacy?  I guess if Biden is repeating the same lie it's O.K.?

 

Austin American-Statesman (slightly left leaning bias with a high factual rating) - Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

 

“And when it comes to COVID-19, after months of doing nothing, other than predicting the virus would disappear, or maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay, Trump has simply given up,” said Biden, who delivered his remarks at a metalworks factory near his hometown of Scranton on Thursday.

Trump's actual comments:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/11/joe-biden/no-trump-didnt-tell-americans-infected-coronavirus/

 

Quote

 

“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”
 

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”
 

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that “under no circumstance” should its products be used in the human body.

 

 

So, he didn't suggest people drink a disinfectant. He merely suggested initially that people might be injected with one.

 

[Benmart]

The source of this story is suspect. The brain-dead read it as truth and spread fear. An old tactic from years ago.