Is now a good time to buy a condo in Bangkok?

[swissie]

9 hours ago, AlfHuy said:

In Isaan, you can build yourself a castle.

The problem arises, when it comes to sell the "Castle".

- Other Farangs see no reason to buy your castle sitting on your wifes land, somewhere in the sticks. Besides, Farangs want to build their own dream-castles on their wifes land (where else) and not wanting to buy a castle "off the rack".
- For some reason, Thais don't want to buy "Farang-Castles". (Can't afford it, style not to their liking or the monks said that it brings "bad karma").

So, the Castle may turn into a (involuntary) "investment for life".
Or: The opposite of an investment that can be turned into cash within a reasonable period of time.

 

Sorry, this thread is about Condos. That's different. Or is it?

[swissie]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You can buy a condo in Chiang Mai for 2 million baht. You can buy a condo in Chiang Rai for 1 million baht. Cooler weather than Bangkok, biggest sauna on the planet. Not sinking, or 1 metre above a rising  sea level.

But I still wouldn't buy, even if the prices were half that. Why? Because I am only here on one year's extension, which can be terminated at the whim of an Immigration officer. Why do you think the TM7 is entitled " Application for extension of TEMPORARY stay in the Kingdom"?

Buying property in a country where you don't own the land under the house, or can only get to 49% control of a condo, is daft.

Next to "temporary" it always states "non-immigrant". As we are not even given the status of an "Immigrant", what are the Farangs?

= Long-Term tourists at best! Just about the shakiest status anyone can have in a foreighn country.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

You can never own the land on which any property is built 

True.  But foreigners owning condos in a project that is sold will profit equally with the Thai owners.  

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

You have 100% control of the condo unit that you own.

You will never see all Thai owners represented at an AGM.

And even in your own country, you have no 100% control of the condo if the majority of owners decide to vote differently that what you want.

Thai owners are not against foreigners at AGMs; they vote for the good of the condo globally.

All correct.  I will add that with company ownership you can actually have more foreign owners than Thai in a condo project.  

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

So you are saying when it comes to any vote in an annual general meeting, the 49% foreigner ownership will prevail over the mandated 51% Thai ownership?

If the Thais vote against a levy of 100,000 baht on each unit for condo upkeep, against your conviction the place is falling to pieces, what are you going to do?

You're the one that doesn't understand Thai laws.

49% is foreign quota but there is no Thai quota.  The other 51% can theoretically be company owned by foreigners.  If a levy does not pass the condo can go the special assessment route.  

[Poet]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Whenever I invested in anything, I lost money faster than just having it sitting in a zero interest bank account.

Now any spare cash I have sits in a UK bank account losing value.

Ah. This explains why you get so cranky when other guys here mention that they've done well with shares or crytpo.

 

[smutcakes]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

We are arguing at cross-purposes. Of course a foreigner owns 100% of the unit.

My point, based on experience in a condo where I was renting, is this - Thais usually vote with their wallets. Not necessarily for the good of the condo.

The foreigners in said condo have been trying to increase the annual unit fees by about 20%, mainly for better maintenance and employment of more security staff, who are stretched pretty thin. One goes off sick, there's no cover. The annual fees are very modest compared to most other condos in Chiang Mai.

They need a 75% vote to get the resolution over the line. Seven years in a row, they have been rejected on the vote. One of the reasons is a bank owns about 30% of the apartments, so it's doomed before the Thais even cast their votes.

Next time you want to say I don't know something, try exploring what I actually said politely.

 

You normally post good information, but i think you have made a few errors in this thread. They don't need a 75% resolution to get anything over the line. The law is not less than 50% of Co-owners for an increase in common fee. You are also talking specifically about one condo. There are many condos well run with good mix of Thais and Farang on the Committees which run the building. Its not just Thai's who sometimes dont want to increase common fees, there are also many occasions where farang do not either. In every condo you will normally have a few of each nationality who cause issues, argue against everything but you hope that overall their is enough sense to vote in the best interest of the condo.

 

Another point which has come up in this thread is about not owning the land in a condo. I dont really understand that point. I dont think condo ownership with regards the land is any different to any other country, in that it is owned by the collective ownership.

 

Before buying people should do proper due diligence on the condo- you cannot prevent every issue, but you can go a long way to making sure you dont experience situations like this.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

You normally post good information, but i think you have made a few errors in this thread. They don't need a 75% resolution to get anything over the line. The law is not less than 50% of Co-owners for an increase in common fee. You are also talking specifically about one condo. There are many condos well run with good mix of Thais and Farang on the Committees which run the building. Its not just Thai's who sometimes dont want to increase common fees, there are also many occasions where farang do not either. In every condo you will normally have a few of each nationality who cause issues, argue against everything but you hope that overall their is enough sense to vote in the best interest of the condo.

 

Another point which has come up in this thread is about not owning the land in a condo. I dont really understand that point. I dont think condo ownership with regards the land is any different to any other country, in that it is owned by the collective ownership.

 

Before buying people should do proper due diligence on the condo- you cannot prevent every issue, but you can go a long way to making sure you dont experience situations like this.

You may be right, however, it could well depend on the by-laws and regulations, call them what you will, of the specific condo. As I said, for the condo I am referring to, a 75% vote in favor has never been achieved, and the fee increase was rejected.

What other errors do you think I have made? Please note, errors of fact.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

The law is not less than 50% of Co-owners for an increase in common fee.

Does it go to one third for the 2nd arranged meeting? from the condo act, I'm not sure that's why I'm asking

[smutcakes]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right, however, it could well depend on the by-laws and regulations, call them what you will, of the specific condo. As I said, for the condo I am referring to, a 75% vote in favor has never been achieved, and the fee increase was rejected.

What other errors do you think I have made? Please note, errors of fact.

Maybe you could inform them that they are trying to achieve a level of voting which is not necessary. Its irrelevant whats in their bye laws as individual condo bye laws cannot supersede the level set by the Condominium Act.

[smutcakes]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Does it go to one third for the 2nd arranged meeting? from the condo act, I'm not sure that's why I'm asking

Yes, if you do not have a quorum to consider the agenda in the 1st meeting. Second meetings and voting on these issues can all get a bit grey area and open to manipulation of voting.

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

Yes, if you do not have a quorum to consider the agenda in the 1st meeting. Second meetings and voting on these issues can all get a bit grey area and open to manipulation of voting.

From what I hear most AGMs get rearranged as they don't get a quorom so to change common fees only a third of votes required, that's do-able

[MarleyMarl]

Since you are putting in your wife's name anyway, why don't you look at townhouses? Condo market is over supplied.

I just bought my second townhouse with my fiance, 4.5 floors, 240sqm, 4 bath, 3 car park, 800m walking distance to MRT, 3.2mb + needs spending additional 800k for refurb.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Maybe you could inform them that they are trying to achieve a level of voting which is not necessary. Its irrelevant whats in their bye laws as individual condo bye laws cannot supersede the level set by the Condominium Act.

I left that condo at the beginning of March, no interest in the politics of condos, or golf clubs for that matter.

[Rancid]

All condo ownership posts descend into the buy or not to buy debate. Some guys get ripped off by their wives, others don't, some want to own and some prefer to rent, will we be booted out by immigration or not?

 

Seems to me we all need to ascertain our own situation and decide what works best for us, everyone's life is different. One persons paranoia is anothers good sense.

[onekoolguy]

^{I bought new 4 years ago 4 million baht. Never used and sold a couple of months ago for 2.4 million. That's how Thai Condo appreciation works! Very few buyers now so it will get much lower in the next year or so?}

^{Buy from foreigners  that have left and are not returning. Look at my figures and make low offers!}

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 minutes ago, onekoolguy said:

^{I bought new 4 years ago 4 million baht. Never used and sold a couple of months ago for 2.4 million. That's how Thai Condo appreciation works! Very few buyers now so it will get much lower in the next year or so?}

^{Buy from foreigners  that have left and are not returning. Look at my figures and make low offers!}

Since you already sold, do you mind sharing where in Thailand and maybe even size and building?

[metisdead]

An inflammatory bickering session has been removed.

 

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

All condo ownership posts descend into the buy or not to buy debate. Some guys get ripped off by their wives, others don't, some want to own and some prefer to rent, will we be booted out by immigration or not?

 

Seems to me we all need to ascertain our own situation and decide what works best for us, everyone's life is different. One persons paranoia is anothers good sense.

It comes back to whether one is comfortable with sinking all of their capital into assets in Thailand. I suppose if one is wealthy enough, one can choose as they please.

Given the lack of permanency for the vast majority of foreigners, IMO a little paranoia is advisable.

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Maybe you could inform them that they are trying to achieve a level of voting which is not necessary. Its irrelevant whats in their bye laws as individual condo bye laws cannot supersede the level set by the Condominium Act.

 

The "law" says not less than half, 75% is not less than half so they are abiding the law. 

 

The law is likely in place to prevent a small percentage of owners from having a meeting and changing the rules. 

[Mike Teavee]

Have been looking at Bank repossessed properties on the BAM & SAM websites and one thing I've noticed is the properties (especially houses, but also a fair number of the Condos) look like they're in a pretty poor state, is that true of all property in Thailand if left empty for a while? 

 

FWIW I'm thinking next year might be a good time to buy a property in Thailand, just not sure you'll see the same discounts in Bangkok as you might see in (say) Pattaya as it's not as reliant on tourists here.

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Have been looking at Bank repossessed properties on the BAM & SAM websites and one thing I've noticed is the properties (especially houses, but also a fair number of the Condos) look like they're in a pretty poor state, is that true of all property in Thailand if left empty for a while? 

 

FWIW I'm thinking next year might be a good time to buy a property in Thailand, just not sure you'll see the same discounts in Bangkok as you might see in (say) Pattaya as it's not as reliant on tourists here.

I looked at 10 condos in an older condo block and many empty ones needed a total refurb, may have been empty for many years, balcony doors wouldn't open, pigeon plop all over balcony, dead cockroaches everywhere, even the condos which looked more lived in had deteriorated fast

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I looked at 10 condos in an older condo block and many empty ones needed a total refurb, may have been empty for many years, balcony doors wouldn't open, pigeon plop all over balcony, dead cockroaches everywhere, even the condos which looked more lived in had deteriorated fast

They deteriorate fast because many are built from not much more than duct tape, toad s##t and plasterboard.

I know a big house outside Chiang Mai which can sleep 20 people, on about 2 acres. Doors and windows jamming, pipes leaking, electrical shorts and faults. Heaven knows what it is like now, it was 15 years old when I saw it.

Or take the 5-story apartment block  I saw under construction in Chiang Mai, off Huay Kaew road. Foundations are only 1 metre deep. It'll be a fun experience when an earthquake comes along.

That's not to say there are no good builders or well-built condos in Thailand, just that it can be difficult to find the wheat among the chaff.

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

They deteriorate fast because many are built from not much more than duct tape, toad s##t and plasterboard.

I know a big house outside Chiang Mai which can sleep 20 people, on about 2 acres. Doors and windows jamming, pipes leaking, electrical shorts and faults. Heaven knows what it is like now, it was 15 years old when I saw it.

Or take the 5-story apartment block  I saw under construction in Chiang Mai, off Huay Kaew road. Foundations are only 1 metre deep. It'll be a fun experience when an earthquake comes along.

That's not to say there are no good builders or well-built condos in Thailand, just that it can be difficult to find the wheat among the chaff.

The ones I looked at were in a good quality well maintained older Condo, but condos that are left empty for years will look shiiite with old furniture and the mandatory pigeon plop and cockroaches

[spidermike007]

No. No. No. No. The market will drop significantly. 

 

No question it is worse. And few in a position of authority are facing the music. Courageous of BAM chairman Bunyong Visatemongkolchai to state the truth, about the Bangkok economy. The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by half. A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 26,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent to sell anything, at this time. 
 
Demand is way down. The Chinese market is nearly gone, Russians and others are very hesitant to commit. And the long term tourists are gone too. So, who does that leave? Wealthy Thais, many of whom see the market collapsing, and would rather wait and see how all of this shakes out, and ex-pats, many of whom are smart enough to be shopping for bargains right now. 

 

Anyone interested in buying a condo right now, would be better off waiting awhile. Timing is on your side. Time is now your ally. The economy is going remain devastated here, for a very long time to come. And the longer this goes on, the more people are going to be affected by it, and the more desperate some will become. For the wealthy it barely matters. But, there are many middle class who have money invested, and there are alot of Chinese and Russians who bought, and cannot even visit Thailand. Some of them will want to unload their properties. Wait. The condo market is severely overbuilt. And demand is low, for all but the top buildings. 

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

No. No. No. No. The market will drop significantly. 

 

No question it is worse. And few in a position of authority are facing the music. Courageous of BAM chairman Bunyong Visatemongkolchai to state the truth, about the Bangkok economy. The pain will be felt for many years to come. I anticipate condo prices to drop by half. A friend of mine recently moved to Pattaya. He looked at condos in Jomtien. He walked into one of the nicest towers, looked at a 36th floor unit with panoramic views, and when he was quoted 26,000 a month, he offered 10,000. They settled on 13,000. He said the agent more or less admitted the building was nearly empty, and they could not rent to sell anything, at this time. 
 
Demand is way down. The Chinese market is nearly gone, Russians and others are very hesitant to commit. And the long term tourists are gone too. So, who does that leave? Wealthy Thais, many of whom see the market collapsing, and would rather wait and see how all of this shakes out, and ex-pats, many of whom are smart enough to be shopping for bargains right now. 

 

Anyone interested in buying a condo right now, would be better off waiting awhile. Timing is on your side. Time is now your ally. The economy is going remain devastated here, for a very long time to come. And the longer this goes on, the more people are going to be affected by it, and the more desperate some will become. For the wealthy it barely matters. But, there are many middle class who have money invested, and there are alot of Chinese and Russians who bought, and cannot even visit Thailand. Some of them will want to unload their properties. Wait. The condo market is severely overbuilt. And demand is low, for all but the top buildings. 

You may be right in terms of prices going down but i think a 50% drop is unlikely. There are many deals around even now, but it all depends where you want to live.

 

If you want to live in popular areas in nice condo block i believe the prices have hardly dropped at all, especially in Bangkok where upwards of 90% of the condos are Thai owned.

 

If you moved to the Bangkok suburbs i am sure you could also get some big discounts, but then again its all demand and supply.

 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The ones I looked at were in a good quality well maintained older Condo, but condos that are left empty for years will look shiiite with old furniture and the mandatory pigeon plop and cockroaches

     And, those are just the ones I want to buy--if they have a great view and are in a great location.  'Pigeon plop and cockroaches' are easily dealt with but do a wonderful job of turning off buyers.  'Eeew!  Show me something else!'  As I've said before, I'd much rather tear out old 'shiite' than brand new, awful design choices.  

     I was surprised the Krungsri website had so few condos listed for Chonburi--just about a dozen.  Hopefully I searched correctly.  Didn't see anything of interest for Pattaya or Bangkok, which had many more listings.   

     Regarding price reductions, I haven't yet seen any really significant price drops in any projects I would consider buying into.  In Bangkok, my partner and I noticed a month or so ago a billboard for a new condo project that had reduced the condos by about 400,000 baht.  In my opinion the reduced price was still high.   However, we drove by the other day and the billboard had been changed back to the original even higher price.   From my Bangkok balcony I see another billboard screaming 1 bedrooms for 8.9MB.  If I remember correctly, this condo project does not even provide a kitchen.  I'll pass.

     If you don't need an ocean view I have seen some condo listings in Pattaya with reduced prices that might be considered a bargain.  But, a bargain isn't really a bargain if you're buying something you don't really want--so, not for me.   

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, smutcakes said:

You may be right in terms of prices going down but i think a 50% drop is unlikely. There are many deals around even now, but it all depends where you want to live.

 

If you want to live in popular areas in nice condo block i believe the prices have hardly dropped at all, especially in Bangkok where upwards of 90% of the condos are Thai owned.

 

If you moved to the Bangkok suburbs i am sure you could also get some big discounts, but then again its all demand and supply.

 

And from everything I have been seeing and hearing, there is tremendous supply, and very limited demand. 

 

However, there is always going to be demand for certain buildings, by sought after developers, in great locations. Ikon Siam is a good example. Managed by the Mandarin Oriental, a 52 story building on the river, adjacent to Bangkok's newest and most spectacular mall, the demand from gazillionaires worldwide, is likely high. Good marketing and a high degree of exclusivity, will attract the 150,000,000 baht, and up market. 

 

However, the vast majority of the buildings being constructed consist of tiny condos, for under 3 million baht. I would consider one of those, at this time, to be a questionable investment. And time is on your side. The prices can only soften in this Covid economy, with the current issues Thailand is facing, combined with the economic devastation. 

[smutcakes]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And from everything I have been seeing and hearing, there is tremendous supply, and very limited demand. 

 

However, there is always going to be demand for certain buildings, by sought after developers, in great locations. Ikon Siam is a good example. Managed by the Mandarin Oriental, a 52 story building on the river, adjacent to Bangkok's newest and most spectacular mall, the demand from gazillionaires worldwide, is likely high. Good marketing and a high degree of exclusivity, will attract the 150,000,000 baht, and up market. 

 

However, the vast majority of the buildings being constructed consist of tiny condos, for under 3 million baht. I would consider one of those, at this time, to be a questionable investment. And time is on your side. The prices can only soften in this Covid economy, with the current issues Thailand is facing, combined with the economic devastation. 

Agree, there will always be demand for certain condos, think Park Chidlom, Millenium, Domus, Kallista Mansion, Somkid Gardens etc. I don't think Icon Siam is that great an example as I don't believe they have sold particularly well. Wrong side of the river, on a congested road having to take even more congested roads into and away from the city everyday. I think its also leasehold, which puts some people off.

 

Also agree with your second paragraph, although i would never want to buy one of those anyway, on the outskirts of town especially as an investment, ok if you want to live there. My rule of thumb is only buy somewhere i would be happy to live in, as if everything goes tits up that might be your fall back.

[Dart12]

spend money in multi unit investment property if real estate investing is your gig.  Not single family housing.  Especially where you can never own it.

FYI, about $35,000 usd can buy you online ecom stores generating $2500/mn profits.  I'd put my money there.