Infected French woman: Virus found on gym equipment at her quarantine hotel

[Bkktodd]

2 hours ago, Oldie said:

I don't know what she does here. Perhaps she visits relatives.

 

But to Farang tourists in general. I ask myself if the Thai government is aware of the kind of Farang tourists that could come here. Many don't care about protection, some even will aggressively refuse it and some even like to make Corona parties. It is a completely different mentality than Thai people have. There is a reason why they have so many cases there. And I don't believe that this quarantine idea will work 100 percent. We saw it at this lady. Just to clarify - I am a Farang too. 

Alot of us are responsible...ironically the oldies take care more than reckless youth with covid. Thailand is so afraid of a single case.  No one has COVID immunity. Holding out for a vaccine.  Meanwhile how many died by suicide? On the thai roads? 

[Bkktodd]

1 hour ago, SePl said:

she just arrived with the virus as most people, very easy to understand, more than 50% tests are wrong.

 

 

3 tests.. before during and release from quarantine? Really?

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

with garrulous loud conversations and glass surfaces everywhere bars are just as bad and in many cases worse.. 

Bars are indeed just about the worst possible environment in terms of COVID spread (indoor bars that is, and most especially if crowded).

[Elkski]

My fiance in Bkk knew of this story.  She believes it was Miramar worker at hotel that infected equipment.   That must be what the Thai news is reporting.   So were all those people at that ASQ hotel required to do another 14 days?   It seems that all the staff and occupants should do a mandatory 14 days.    So where did this smoking gun come from?   And why was the virus found alive on the equipment? what 5 days or longer after the woman left?   This means  guests should not be allowed to use gym or the cleaning procedure is flawed.   

[donnacha]

49 minutes ago, Elkski said:

or the cleaning procedure is flawed.

The flaw afflicting every procedure in Thailand is that no one follows the procedures.

 

[donnacha]

10 hours ago, Oldie said:

The other question is why was she allowed to enter Thailand. She is from a high risk country. Are they not blocked? 

Blocking countries seems pointless if everyone must go through testing and quarantine anyway.

 

 

[Oldie]

5 hours ago, Bkktodd said:

Alot of us are responsible...ironically the oldies take care more than reckless youth with covid. Thailand is so afraid of a single case.  No one has COVID immunity. Holding out for a vaccine.  Meanwhile how many died by suicide? On the thai roads? 

People die of suicide and people die on the road. Very sad. But this doesn't bring down the economy of countries. There is a big difference. 

[Oldie]

3 hours ago, donnacha said:

Blocking countries seems pointless if everyone must go through testing and quarantine anyway.

 

 

If you get a lot of sick people in quarantine then you have a problem. 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Oldie

[donnacha]

14 minutes ago, Oldie said:

If you get a lot of sick people in quarantine then you have a problem. 

 

Why?

The point of quarantine is that you are isolating people who may be infected. Such isolation, if correctly executed, should be sufficient to ensure that, even if the detainee has brought the infection into the country with them, they are no longer infectious by the time they leave quarantine.

Remember, even in the "bad" countries such as the UK, the total number of cases, including all those who passed through their infectious stage earlier in the pandemic, is around 1% of the population, and disproportionately in sections of the population who are unlikely to travel to Thailand.


 

[Oldie]

31 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Why?

The point of quarantine is that you are isolating people who may be infected. Such isolation, if correctly executed, should be sufficient to ensure that, even if the detainee has brought the infection into the country with them, they are no longer infectious by the time they leave quarantine.

Remember, even in the "bad" countries such as the UK, the total number of cases, including all those who passed through their infectious stage earlier in the pandemic, is around 1% of the population, and disproportionately in sections of the population who are unlikely to travel to Thailand.
 

Every sick person in quarantine poses a problem. You can't send them back home. You can't let them walk freely. They might pass on the virus to other people in quarantine and to the staff there. They might get too many to be handled by the local health system. 

 

You have to see what is happening at the moment in Europe. The Corona cases are getting extremely high. The governments don't know what to do to stop this development. Sick people are a problem but if the economy gets a (far bigger) problem too then this could end in a desaster. Don't you read the news from there? 

 

If Thailand gets a problem like Europe then not only the tourism industry has a problem but the whole country. And this at a time with demonstrations against the government. 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Oldie

[donnacha]

57 minutes ago, Oldie said:

Every sick person in quarantine poses a problem. You can't send them back home. You can't let them walk freely. They might pass on the virus to other people in quarantine and to the staff there. They might get too many to be handled by the local health system. 

 

I understand what you are saying but these people are not being released directly into the general population. They are subject to quarantine protocols from the moment they land in Thailand. Their interactions with Thai citizens are minimal and protected. No one is letting them walk freely. There is zero need to send them back home. Sick people are not a problem unless they are making other people sick.

This is how modern medicine deals with highly-infectious diseases. If quarantine is executed correctly, upon passing their last test and leaving the hotel, those people are less risky than the average Thai citizen. This is regardless of whether they come from a country with a high or a low number of infections.
 

 

57 minutes ago, Oldie said:

You have to see what is happening at the moment in Europe. The Corona cases are getting extremely high. The governments don't know what to do to stop this development. Sick people are a problem but if the economy gets a (far bigger) problem too then this could end in a desaster. Don't you read the news from there? 

Yes, I have read the news.

It is important to understand the situation without overreacting, to try to see things clearly.

For example, the economic problem is not due to the virus but due to our attempt to control it by locking down the entire population rather than properly shielding the vulnerable. The main thing that will be remembered about this period is how the governments got it all upside down, and put almost no thought into how we could protect the groups that we already knew would be vulnerable. An astonishing number of the early deaths were in care homes, a completely avoidable tragedy.

 

57 minutes ago, Oldie said:

If Thailand gets a problem like Europe then not only the tourism industry has a problem but the whole country. And this at a time with demonstrations against the government. 

Money spent by foreigners in Thailand is far bigger than just the tourism industry. In underpins businesses and families all over the kingdom, including the parts of the country that the elites never think about.

The idealism and passion of the students gave these protests their form, but the desperation and hunger caused by destroying the real, on-the-ground economy will give them their teeth. In Egypt, after all the lofty speeches about freedom from dictatorship, the main factor behind the 2011 revolution was that the price of cooking oil had doubled.

Far from shutting out most countries, the Thai government should fix whatever holes have emerged in their quarantine procedures and, then, open the country up to anyone willing to risk a flight and to pay top dollar to be locked up and treated like a leper for 15 nights.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by donnacha

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

The media said the positive test on the gym equipment was one of seven samples taken at the quarantine hotel. An further investigation is underway at the ASQ (alternative state quarantine) facility.

Safe trusted Thailand

[hotchilli]

16 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So none of them went to the gym ????

 

As no cleaning took place you're quite correct.

[Elkski]

2 hours ago, donnacha said:

I understand what you are saying but these people are not being released directly into the general population. They are subject to quarantine protocols from the moment they land in Thailand. Their interactions with Thai citizens are minimal and protected. No one is letting them walk freely. There is zero need to send them back home. Sick people are not a problem unless they are making other people sick.

This is how modern medicine deals with highly-infectious diseases. If quarantine is executed correctly, upon passing their last test and leaving the hotel, those people are less risky than the average Thai citizen. This is regardless of whether they come from a country with a high or a low number of infections.
 

 

Yes, I have read the news.

It is important to understand the situation without overreacting, to try to see things clearly.

For example, the economic problem is not due to the virus but due to our attempt to control it by locking down the entire population rather than properly shielding the vulnerable. The main thing that will be remembered about this period is how the governments got it all upside down, and put almost no thought into how we could protect the groups that we already knew would be vulnerable. An astonishing number of the early deaths were in care homes, a completely avoidable tragedy.

 

Money spent by foreigners in Thailand is far bigger than just the tourism industry. In underpins businesses and families all over the kingdom, including the parts of the country that the elites never think about.

The idealism and passion of the students gave these protests their form, but the desperation and hunger caused by destroying the real, on-the-ground economy will give them their teeth. In Egypt, after all the lofty speeches about freedom from dictatorship, the main factor behind the 2011 revolution was that the price of cooking oil had doubled.

Far from shutting out most countries, the Thai government should fix whatever holes have emerged in their quarantine procedures and, then, open the country up to anyone willing to risk a flight and to pay top dollar to be locked up and treated like a leper for 15 nights.

 

Ok I will try to follow your thoughts.  How about I allow you to describe a safe protocol for what should occur now that this French woman was positive. Lets focus on what to do with the other customers that just arrived at the same ASQ, those that were 1 day away from leaving, what about all the workers, someone  changed this woman's sheets during her stay, (probably within 3 days of her leaving)  and someone cleaned it after she checked out.  

Do we make some customers stay another 14 days? Do we ask all the employees to self quarantine at home like the CDC in USA says should occur at a workplace positive case?  Who all should be contacted and traced and tested? What if this becomes a regular occurrence at many ASQ's?   What happens when a few ASQ workers test positive? What happens if a few die?

[Bangyai]

Wow. The lesson here is never try to keep fit. Avoid gyms and stick to watering holes.

[Estrada]

I have noticed that the quarantine regulations are not being adhered to whereby the detainees must stay in their rooms with food and fresh bedding and towels delivered outside their doors. I have since noticed that several friends who arrived a week ago posted photos of himself using the hotel's fitness rooms and also meeting friends in the restaurant of the Mövenpick BDMS Wellness Resort Bangkok. It is no wonder that the virus can be passed on by infected persons that should have remained in their rooms.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Estrada

[ChipButty]

10 minutes ago, Bangyai said:

Wow. The lesson here is never try to keep fit. Avoid gyms and stick to watering holes.

Safer in the Bar

[donnacha]

45 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Ok I will try to follow your thoughts.  How about I allow you to describe a safe protocol for what should occur now that this French woman was positive. Lets focus on what to do with the other customers that just arrived at the same ASQ, those that were 1 day away from leaving, what about all the workers, someone  changed this woman's sheets during her stay, (probably within 3 days of her leaving)  and someone cleaned it after she checked out.  

As I said, "the Thai government should fix whatever holes have emerged in their quarantine procedures". In this case, it appears a shared piece of gym equipment may have been the vector. That's a hole that needs to be fixed. If it is absolutely imperative to have shared gym equipment (as opposed to providing an exercise bike or whatever in each room), one person should use it at a time, and it should be thoroughly wiped down by a member of staff between users.

Some are saying that an infected member of the hotel staff, a cleaner, recently arrived from Myanmar may have been the source of the infection too. That's a hole too. Staff for such a specialized service should be as vetted and tested as the detainees.

Members of staff should be supplied with the best possible PPE. We already know, from the many first-hand reports on this forum and elsewhere, that contact with staff is minimal. From the moment you exit the plane, you are treated as a biohazard, and rightly so under the circumstances.

 

45 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Do we make some customers stay another 14 days?

Already happening. Detainees who test positive at any point enter a different process.
 

 

45 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Do we ask all the employees to self quarantine at home like the CDC in USA says should occur at a workplace positive case?

The CDC does not require that of hospitals, medical centers, prisons, and quarantine facilities.

 

45 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Who all should be contacted and traced and tested? What if this becomes a regular occurrence at many ASQ's?   What happens when a few ASQ workers test positive? What happens if a few die?

To prevent the wholesale carnage you envisage, we must absolutely INSIST that all chambermaids in their 80s be reassigned to regular hotel rooms.

There is so much hysteria around this subject. This particular ASQ messed up, just as the ASQ in Melbourne did. This is the first time the world has faced anything like this, mistakes are bound to occur, but that does not invalidate the sound principles behind quarantine procedures. We simply have to get better at doing this stuff at scale, and we will.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by donnacha

[Sametboy2019]

Hard to judge how serious this is. Reports saying that it permanently damages organs yet PL players are getting and two weeks later back playing. One can say they are elite athletes but it either does damage or it doesnt. Is the virus really that serious or is it just that too many people are unhealthy? Neil Warnock had it and survived and he is 71.

[thai006]

i am in quarantine and after i read the story i don't want leave my room  ,  whatever i will be free on sunday morning  

i make a 100 % true quarantine did  no go outside anytime ???? 

[BigC]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:21 PM, Saltire said:

I've seen in other places that she is in fact a Thai citizen with dual (French) nationality, but not sure if that's the case. Can never be sure.

 

'Sixty seven of sixty eight staff there have tested negative' so is there one more positive?

 

Why are so many articles and reports on here so badly written, is it deliberate? They generate more questions than they give 'facts'.

 

 

 

written vague because the press do not know the answers so in UK they would lie to fill in the missing gaps. here they leave to

he gaps missing until more information comes out

[BigC]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:15 AM, Sametboy2019 said:

Hard to judge how serious this is. Reports saying that it permanently damages organs yet PL players are getting and two weeks later back playing. One can say they are elite athletes but it either does damage or it doesnt. Is the virus really that serious or is it just that too many people are unhealthy? Neil Warnock had it and survived and he is 71.

different people have different immune systems.

 

only 0.02 % of population in the world have died.

 

some people with different blood types are more open to worse effects. like flu not everyone catches it every year

[Dumbastheycome]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:43 AM, thai006 said:

i am in quarantine and after i read the story i don't want leave my room  ,  whatever i will be free on sunday morning  

i make a 100 % true quarantine did  no go outside anytime ???? 

A wise choice ! But if you want to go outside of your room can you without a problem?

[BigC]

so many anti thai comments and complaining 

 

i wonder why any of you lot are allowed in

 

or why you want to come and complain

 

try being a thai for a day and apply for a visa to go to america UK europe.

 

see if they give you 30 days on entry.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 10/27/2020 at 12:22 AM, donnacha said:

Blocking countries seems pointless if everyone must go through testing and quarantine anyway.

 

 

The rationale of restricting non Thai from high risk countries especially is mostly due to the capacity of quarantine facilities. Many countries have  weekly quota even on returning  citizens for that reason. There is also a need to retain a percentage of  quarantine spaces in the event of a  community outbreak because not all detected infections require hospitalization but extended monitored isolation in quarantine.

Allowing open entry even subject to quarantine would be a logistical nightmare and probably eventuate in defeating the purpose with  community outbreaks.

[sirocco]

BIG C

 

Let's say that they apply their right to express themselves, even if, at times, some are disappointing.
But, we must not be deluded, these "never happy" will not be good anywhere and will always find something to counteract.

[thai006]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

A wise choice ! But if you want to go outside of your room can you without a problem?

 

in my hotel you can go to the rooftop after the 7 day after the first covid test 

[pennine]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:38 AM, daiwill60 said:

So many questions about this report. 

Only 7 samples were taken, why so few in a large building?

Did the woman actually use the gym?

Was the virus present in the gym before she became infected, or did she become infected elsewhere and then subsequently infect the gym?
Did she become infected on Koh Samui or during her passage to Koh Samui?

 

I guess we will never certainly know, but we will carry on with lockdowns and quarantines nevertheless. 

My question is still "Why did big C let her in with a fever when they check everyone at entry?"

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, thai006 said:

 

in my hotel you can go to the rooftop after the 7 day after the first covid test 

And so can come in contact with surfaces touched  by someone who has also been there and tests positive later on the same day ?  Wow!

[thai006]

On 10/28/2020 at 1:37 PM, Dumbastheycome said:

And so can come in contact with surfaces touched  by someone who has also been there and tests positive later on the same day ?  Wow!

 that why all my quarantine i been in the room  lol  will be free on sunday morning ????