New Denon AVR problems.

[phetphet]

Looking for some advice from the electrical  expertshere.

 

I recently bought a new Samsung QLED and Denon AVR2600H receiver. kept having problems with the receiver, so sent it back for diagnostic and repair.

 

Got the following message:

Your Receiver has no problem, it can work normally. But the symptoms that you found may be caused by an unstable electrical system in your home. When an outlet is used in the same system as the Receiver, power will interrupt the Receiver, resulting in a loss of sound from time to time.
The problem will be solved if a device that stabilizes electricity is installed in your home.

 

What sort of device could they be talking about to stabilise the power supply? A UPS?

 

So .Fast forward to today.

 

Technicians come to re connect the receiver. While doing so, transferring connections from old box to new one, one gets a jolt from an HDMI cable.

He uses a voltage testing screwdriver on the HDMI and also the side casing of the receiver. Both show power. Says "not good, no ground."

 

Now I know SFA about electrics, but show him that the power lead that came with the new Denon is the same as the one on the old one, in that they both only have two pins so are not grounded. (See photo no.3).

Anyway, he disagrees and fits an unsightly earth cable to the side of the receiver and into a socket. See photos 2 and 3.

 

Pretty sure Denon would have fitted an eareth pin in the socket if it had been needed, so I went online and not only is it not needed, but could increase the chance of surge damage.

We have real problems with surges here in Samui.

 

So looking for advice or suggestions on what I should do.

I'm pretty sure I should remove this earth lead, but are the little shocks and tingles I get when I touch the box and the TV a sign ofsomething wrong? Could they be dangerous?

 

TIA

 

 

[Oldie]

Often it helps to turn the plug around. Plug it in so that the poles are changed.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Oldie

[johng]

9 minutes ago, phetphet said:

 

 

That is a Shuko Plug   an like that it is not providing an earth !!

you can buy an adaptor ( to provide earth)  like this at some hardware store or online.

WA-GF(R5B)

 

 

Or you can cut the silly thing off and fit a  "proper"   3pin plug like this.  ( Haco P002)

 

[carlyai]

The double lead earth set up by your technician may not have worked or earthed the unit if there is no earthing wire run to your power points. Also the wire attached to your black box is connected to a painted surface which may not make a good earth.

I would trust the receiver handbook if it said not to install an earth, and remove that wire anyway.

TV s these days don't use transformers in the power supplies and you may get voltage on the chassis. I would expect TV's to have an earth wire or a 3 pin plug, but read what the handbook says. 

Again if your electrician when wiring the house didn't run an earth wire everywhere and back to an earth stake hammered into the ground, your 3 pin mounted sockets may not be earthen, so if you plug the power cord TV plug into the socket it may not be earthed. So you need to check if your house has a good earth.

For your receiver. Does it lose FM signal? Is that what you mean that it doesn't work properly? What happens?

 

[phetphet]

16 hours ago, carlyai said:

The double lead earth set up by your technician may not have worked or earthed the unit if there is no earthing wire run to your power points. Also the wire attached to your black box is connected to a painted surface which may not make a good earth.

I would trust the receiver handbook if it said not to install an earth, and remove that wire anyway.

TV s these days don't use transformers in the power supplies and you may get voltage on the chassis. I would expect TV's to have an earth wire or a 3 pin plug, but read what the handbook says. 

Again if your electrician when wiring the house didn't run an earth wire everywhere and back to an earth stake hammered into the ground, your 3 pin mounted sockets may not be earthen, so if you plug the power cord TV plug into the socket it may not be earthed. So you need to check if your house has a good earth.

For your receiver. Does it lose FM signal? Is that what you mean that it doesn't work properly? What happens?

 

It doesn't say not  to install an earth. It just only comes with a two pin plug as in pics in OP.

Even my new 2020 Samsung tv only comes with a 2-pin plug, so I presume that  doesn't need an earth. See pics below. But I am going to get an electrician to come in and check the health of my electrical system.

 

As far as the problem with the receiver;  The TV screen keeps going black every so often for several seconds. Sometimes I get a spinning wheel on screen as if it is buffering. Sometimes I get a "No Signal" or lost source message on screen. Also flickering  white spots like snow on screen.

 

This is a brand new 4K TV and Denon receiver. All sources connected with HDMI cables capable of streaming 8K. I have tried various different cables, so I doubt it is them. Updated TV software, firmware.

 

Samsung have been and  checked the TV, and a the Denon has been back to Mahajak in Bangkok for inspection. neither could find fault.

Apple TV 4K, Samsung $K Blu Ray player, NVIDIA Shield Pro, and a MAG 254 IPTV box.

 

1Gb /700Mbps internet. Checked this week by ISP tech. Speed good.

 

Even the IPTV box which only streams at 720 still gets the black screen. So I am at a loss what to check next.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, phetphet said:

1Gb /700Mbps internet. Checked this week by ISP tech. Speed good.

 

Even the IPTV box which only streams at 720 still gets the black screen. So I am at a loss what to check next.

The speed at the time of the check was OK but you need to check the speed at various times to be sure that the speed isn’t fluctuating causing the problem. The voltage may also vary significantly. If you have too many devices on the WiFi that could also be the problem.

[phetphet]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The speed at the time of the check was OK but you need to check the speed at various times to be sure that the speed isn’t fluctuating causing the problem. The voltage may also vary significantly. If you have too many devices on the WiFi that could also be the problem.

You  are right about the internet speed. As for the other devices, I normally have only the one I am using at that time powered on. 

I don't think it's that anyway because I get the black screen problem even when playing blu-ray discs, or watching movies from an external hard drive plugged into my Nvidia Shield Pro. No internet involved in either of  those methods. Also I bought this Denon box because it is a 4K receiver and has eARC.

 

I am  now wondering if there could be a problem with the fibre optic cable that runs from the Samsung TV to the "One Connect" box. Don't know  how I can test that apart from either getting the Samsung Tech back or replacing the cable.

 

Thanks for the suggestions anyway.

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, phetphet said:

Also I bought this Denon box because it is a 4K receiver and has eARC.

 

I am  now wondering if there could be a problem with the fibre optic cable that runs from the Samsung TV to the "One Connect" box. Don't know  how I can test that apart from either getting the Samsung Tech back or replacing the cable.

I would get new good quality cables as the next  step, do get all the connection cables to be sure.

 

I’ve no idea what eARC is though it’s probably a marketing term 

[carlyai]

11 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The speed at the time of the check was OK but you need to check the speed at various times to be sure that the speed isn’t fluctuating causing the problem. The voltage may also vary significantly. If you have too many devices on the WiFi that could also be the problem.

Good you are going to get your electrical system checked, but for correct earth testing you need a bit of specialist gear. Just confirming you have an earth run is a good start.

If you have a look at your router, you will see some LAN (local area network) female connectors. Get your computer and plug it into the router and then watch your incoming stream and see if it is watchable or buffering (the little spinning disk). You can watch You Tube and see how it looks. There is also a little gear wheel on the right top if you click on the screen and wheel and that will bring up a window showing your buffering etc.

Seems to me your main problem is lack of signal bandwidth.

1. So if you can test the signal at the router this would be a good start. 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, phetphet said:

As far as the problem with the receiver;  The TV screen keeps going black every so often for several seconds. Sometimes I get a spinning wheel on screen as if it is buffering. Sometimes I get a "No Signal" or lost source message on screen. Also flickering  white spots like snow on screen.

I would suspect an HDMI signal (compatibility) problem with the TV or the Denon. Probably the Denon.

Try it at a pals house with their different make of TV.

 

All this talk of cables and electricity supply sounds like BS to me.

All this talk of checking stuff ....... did they show you the Denon working correctly with any TV?

Did they bring a replacement Denon unit to plug in and show you the same problem?

If they didn't, then they weren't checking anything.

 

If you're in Chiang Mai, you can bring it to my house, I've got a large Samsung, and a large Lg to try it on.

I've also got a UPS and a completely independent stabilised power source.

Just saw ..... Samui is a bit far.

Edited October 30, 2020 by BritManToo

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

All this talk of cables and electricity supply sounds like BS to me.

All cables fail and cheap cables are worse for that, it’s also a reasonably easy thing to check. If you have reliable stable power you are extremely lucky, few in Thailand have that.

 

Basic trouble shooting, check the simple things first.

Edited October 30, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

All cables fail and cheap cables are worse for that, it’s also a reasonably easy thing to check. If you have reliable stable power you are extremely lucky, few in Thailand have that.

Digital cables work or they don't work ....... there's no in-between.

As for stable power ...... 5,000bht battery, 3,000bht inverter ....... anyone can buy one.

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by BritManToo

[sometimewoodworker]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Digital cables work or they don't work ....... there's no in-between.

No they don’t. There are degrees of failure and interference.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they don’t. There are degrees of failure and interference.

BS (digital cables).

If it were a cable problem, the testers at the house would have plugged in their 'extra high quality' test cable and the problem would have gone away. If the testers can't show the problem as cured, they are just spouting BS.

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by BritManToo

[phetphet]

You might be right about bandwidth, as I don't get the black screen problem with my old Denon non 4K receiver. But I will do as you suggest.

 

But I also don't get any problems streaming to my iPad. Only the TV.

 

It's a Samsung's flagship 2020 4K TV. (QLED QA65Q95T).  I didn't go for an 8K because there is no content yet, and the Denon AVR2600H is a 4K receiver. Tried at least 3 new different sets of  HDMI cables.

 

The picture from 4K Blu-Rays and from 4K movies on external drive via Shield is great, (so these sources are ruling out internet as noneused) . But there does seem to be a bandwidth issue,or an inability of something to process the information fast enough. Hence the spinning wheel and black screen.

 

Happened at least ten times while watch Black Panther Blu-ray  yesterday.

 

Just thinking. The only other component now is the Samsung "One Connect" box. All  sources  go  from  the receiver, through one 8K capable HDMI from eARC connection to same on the One Connect, then  through a fibre optic to  the TV.  

That was checked by Samsung tech, but maybe I  need them  to recheck.

[phetphet]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I would suspect an HDMI signal (compatibility) problem with the TV or the Denon. Probably the Denon.

Try it at a pals house with their different make of TV.

 

All this talk of cables and electricity supply sounds like BS to me.

All this talk of checking stuff ....... did they show you the Denon working correctly with any TV?

Did they bring a replacement Denon unit to plug in and show you the same problem?

If they didn't, then they weren't checking anything.

 

If you're in Chiang Mai, you can bring it to my house, I've got a large Samsung, and a large Lg to try it on.

I've also got a UPS and a completely independent stabilised power source.

Just saw ..... Samui is a bit far.

BritManToo. Thanks for the offer, but yes am in Samui. What do you mean by independent stabilised power source? Is that a separate device between the socket and TV?

[phetphet]

1 minute ago, phetphet said:

BritManToo. Thanks for the offer, but yes am in Samui. What do you mean by independent stabilised power source? Is that a separate device between the socket and TV?

Forget last post. I see now. Battery and inverter.

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, phetphet said:

BritManToo. Thanks for the offer, but yes am in Samui. What do you mean by independent stabilised power source? Is that a separate device between the socket and TV?

Your problem is a faulty TV or a faulty Denon.

It was really up to Denon to show you your exiting unit working on another Tv.

Talk of cables and power is just BS on their part.

 

Blu-ray was always a problem, usually caused by the copyright protection on the HDMI signals.

Who to blame .... the player, the amp, or the TV .... the manufacturers will all blame each other.

Edited October 30, 2020 by BritManToo

[ravip]

...but are the little shocks and tingles I get when I touch the box and the TV

 

Just a thought.

Did you try each device independently?

That is, disconnect the TV and the Box completely.

Then power the TV on. -  any little shocks and tingles when you touch the TV?

Now, take out the TV and power the Box on - any little shocks and tingles when you touch the Box?

 

For whatever it is worth, take out both the TV and Box and plug another device on that power point - any little shocks and tingles when you touch that device?

 

Just to localise where the issue is.