Killings in France trigger Bangladesh protests against Macron

[FritsSikkink]

3 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Tunisian in deadly Nice terror attack turned to religion after teen troubles

Same causes, same consequences, same storytelling too... 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tunisian-suspect-in-nice-attack-turned-to-religion-after-teenage-troubles/

His brother:“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” Yassin told Reuters. “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

Conveniently forgetting about his earlier arrest because of violence.

[Opl]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

His brother:“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” Yassin told Reuters. “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

Conveniently forgetting about his earlier arrest because of violence.

yes, I was editing my post by the same time !

in another article they say he didn't even know about Charlie. 

[Thorgal]

31 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Tunisian in deadly Nice terror attack turned to religion after teen troubles

Same causes, same consequences, same storytelling too... 

- One of 11 siblings, dropped out of high school and had worked as a motorcycle mechanic, - he had been arrested in his home country in 2016 for violence and using a knife. 

-“he drank alcohol and used drugs. I used to tell him, ‘we are poor and you’re wasting money?’ He would reply if God wills it, he will guide me to the right path, it’s my business’,” 

“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tunisian-suspect-in-nice-attack-turned-to-religion-after-teenage-troubles/

 

His first attack with a knife in 2016 had no religious motives.

 

He started to pray 2,5 years ago. His mental state has yet to be investigated by French justice. He traveled alone but was in contact with at least 2 French citizens from Nice.

 

Not sure if your source is the right one in such topics.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Western Liberalism is in crisis. The West has been trained to not see race and reject nationalism in favor of universalism. Now we can no longer distinguish between friends and foes. A Tunisian Muslim or an Irish Catholic are one of the same to us.

The definition of liberal has changed. I used to called liberal because I have a very liberal attitude to things like drug use, sexuality etc.

 

However, now that I have concerns about a religion that treats women as second class citizens, frequently shows support for the beheading of innocent citizens, opposes free speech etc. suddenly I'm right wing.

 

Strange world. Very glad I grew up in the 70s and 80s and went to Uni in the 90s. I genuinely feel sorry for the modern generation.

[Ganesh108]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

.......and they wonder why Islamophobia exists.

Being Islamophobic is being sensible. 

[Opl]

27 minutes ago, Ganesh108 said:

Being Islamophobic is being sensible. 

Quite correct, this is what happens when people from a non-Muslim host country feel pressured to adapt to migrant populations who choose not to integrate.

And I don't believe that stopping blasphemy will solve our problem with the Islamists ... 

Only authoritarian mesures and strengh will.

[luckyluke]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I have a very liberal attitude to things like drug use, sexuality etc.

 

However, now that I have concerns about a religion that treats women as second class citizens, frequently shows support for the beheading of innocent citizens, opposes free speech etc. suddenly I'm right wing.

 

 

 

Many people are both.

 

Being revolutionary/liberal in certain concepts, and traditionalist/conservative in others. 

 

However for many others also, it is impossible to be both, for them one is right or left. 

 

These are the real radicals. 

 

[Harveyboy]

20 hours ago, YetAnother said:

i forget where in the koran it says that is ok

macron is not promoting islamphobia he is just sick of watching watching his fellow countrymen being murdered by this scum im no lover of Macron but this time he is right 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Opl said:

 

Absolutely correct!  Questions to people saying that these terrorists  do not represent Islam: What about tens / hundreds of thousands of people who protest in the Muslim World... screaming / promising "death to the French" , "death to France", "death to Macron" etc following Macron's speech on Free Speech?  Doing so they clearly support the Islamists  terrorist and they applaud their killings.

Are they Muslims or they too have nothing to do with Islam?
Is this still a plot against Islam?

Do they too, misunderstand the Religion of Peace? 

 

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Are things that simple when it comes to ideas, beliefs and politics in the West? Does everything Macron (for example, can insert any politician or public figure) necessarily represents 'all'? Does the fact that the West, in general, got a tradition of more open discussion and dissent is not a factor?

 

 

[KarenBravo]

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Are things that simple when it comes to ideas, beliefs and politics in the West? Does everything Macron (for example, can insert any politician or public figure) necessarily represents 'all'? Does the fact that the West, in general, got a tradition of more open discussion and dissent is not a factor?

 

 

Right. Most Muslims will condemn the violence, yet, you can see with all the protests against the cartoons going on in Muslim countries that this is just a lie. They support the violence and any Muslim that doesn't is guilty of blasphemy.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

Right. Most Muslims will condemn the violence, yet, you can see with all the protests against the cartoons going on in Muslim countries that this is just a lie. They support the violence and any Muslim that doesn't is guilty of blasphemy.

 

I agree that the condemnation aren't quite as 'lively' or numerous or well-spread as the expressions of outrage when what's seen as transgressions against their religions are concerned. Maybe not all that surprising - hate, rage, fear and violence are strong emotions, and easily excitable.

 

But jumping from this to assertions that they all (or most of them) support this or that? How so? Again - maybe it should be compared with how things go in the West (and factoring for the West's longer tradition of people being involved in open public discourse). Better education, social tolerance and the like got something to do with it as well.

 

I'm sure many Muslims support violence against 'infidels' etc., I don't know that it's most, and sure that it's not all. Also, support doesn't necessarily equate with getting into in person. I'd  venture that in this, they are quite like most people - big on talk, less so when push comes to shove.

[Opl]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I agree that the condemnation aren't quite as 'lively' or numerous or well-spread as the expressions of outrage when what's seen as transgressions against their religions are concerned. Maybe not all that surprising - hate, rage, fear and violence are strong emotions, and easily excitable.

 

But jumping from this to assertions that they all (or most of them) support this or that? How so? Again - maybe it should be compared with how things go in the West (and factoring for the West's longer tradition of people being involved in open public discourse). Better education, social tolerance and the like got something to do with it as well.

 

I'm sure many Muslims support violence against 'infidels' etc., I don't know that it's most, and sure that it's not all. Also, support doesn't necessarily equate with getting into in person. I'd  venture that in this, they are quite like most people - big on talk, less so when push comes to shove.

Questions to people saying that these terrorists  do not represent Islam: What about tens / hundreds of thousands of people who protest in the Muslim World... screaming / promising "death to the French" , "death to France", "death to Macron" etc following Macron's speech on Free Speech?  Doing so they clearly support the Islamists  terrorist and they applaud their killings.

Are they Muslims or they too have nothing to do with Islam?
Is this still a plot against Islam?

Do they too, misunderstand the Religion of Peace? 

[KarenBravo]

The cartoons that the Muslims are up in arms about are nothing compared to the cartoons in the anti-Israel Arab press. Just more hypocrisy.

[kingdong]

21 hours ago, Opl said:

 

Tunisian in deadly Nice terror attack turned to religion after teen troubles

Same causes, same consequences, same storytelling too... 

- One of 11 siblings, dropped out of high school and had worked as a motorcycle mechanic, - he had been arrested in his home country in 2016 for violence and using a knife. 

-“he drank alcohol and used drugs. I used to tell him, ‘we are poor and you’re wasting money?’ He would reply if God wills it, he will guide me to the right path, it’s my business’,” 

“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tunisian-suspect-in-nice-attack-turned-to-religion-after-teenage-troubles/

Sounds a diamond geezer,what went wrong?

[Opl]

33 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

The cartoons that the Muslims are up in arms about are nothing compared to the cartoons in the anti-Israel Arab press. Just more hypocrisy.

In France, the "Muslim Community" - as diverse as its components can be - is unified  by deep envy  and jalousy and resentment  towards those they refer to as "Sionists" ( in their mind all Jews), They always suspect there is a Jewish plot behind everything that give the Muslims a bad image , including terror attacks.. whatever ... because their reasoning is : what hurts the Muslims automatically favors the Jews who they say are those who lead from behind the scene, the French being just their puppets ... Macron ( Rothshild etc..)

Another thing is they  have to admit the Jewish Community has succesfully managed to defend itself against anti-semism offenses and Holocaust denials , etc....

And one more thing is all what French culture owes to French Jews - who by the way  show off no problem with their identity as French.

The contrast is obvious.         

[Opl]

19 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Sounds a diamond geezer,what went wrong?

nothing else but now famous mantra  "Muslims have right to punish French" , sometimes it takes 2 days after they set foot on our soil, sometimes 2 years ...

and I'd add, if you (in this case Muslims)  don't know the reason why - the French will know.. 

 

[Scott]

Continued off-topic, racist posts are going to earn suspensions.  

 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Opl said:

Questions to people saying that these terrorists  do not represent Islam: What about tens / hundreds of thousands of people who protest in the Muslim World... screaming / promising "death to the French" , "death to France", "death to Macron" etc following Macron's speech on Free Speech?  Doing so they clearly support the Islamists  terrorist and they applaud their killings.

Are they Muslims or they too have nothing to do with Islam?
Is this still a plot against Islam?

Do they too, misunderstand the Religion of Peace? 

 

I do not and did not deny that there are such sentiments. What I reject is the notion that such things could be generalized as representing all Muslims, or Islam. They definitely are in tune with the way many Muslims feel about things, but whether this represents the majority of Muslims is debatable. What about all them Muslims who did not attend such protests? They are by far more numerous - does that mean that they oppose such views? Does it imply that they support them by not expressing views? I don't have a clear answer to that, and I'm reluctant to accept wide brush takes on such matters.

 

IMO, it's pretty easy for people to simplify positions and views of others, especially when seen as antagonistic and threatening. There's little room for more complex takes when the main elements are fear and hate. This can be applied all around, not limited to this or that group.

 

It is, more or less, easy for us to understand the complexities, contradictions and differences within our own societies, countries and religions. Less so when addressing other groups, people, countries and beliefs.

 

 

[ravip]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:50 AM, Thorgal said:

No face masks and safety distances in Bangladesh?

High immunity. Maybe not necessary... ????

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

 

[RichardColeman]

 

On 10/30/2020 at 10:36 AM, YetAnother said:

i forget where in the koran it says that is ok

Just after forcefully convert a 13 year old teen from Christianity and forcefully marry her off to a 44 year old pervert (before you ban me (again) - it's in the news)

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

I do not and did not deny that there are such sentiments. What I reject is the notion that such things could be generalized as representing all Muslims, or Islam. They definitely are in tune with the way many Muslims feel about things, but whether this represents the majority of Muslims is debatable. What about all them Muslims who did not attend such protests? They are by far more numerous - does that mean that they oppose such views? Does it imply that they support them by not expressing views? I don't have a clear answer to that, and I'm reluctant to accept wide brush takes on such matters.

 

 

The same can be applied to the opposite, those who condemn the actions of the terrorists, there are far more Muslims who don't openly join those condemnations.

 

Fact however is, that the number of people who join the protest is much larger than the people who openly condemn the terrorists

[daveAustin]

Macron is a twit, can't stand the bloke, but he is bang on with this. He is not anti-Islam at all, more against any party using a religion to attack his people. Of course, the nutters don't like it when they hear these words in the same sentence of their precious. But you know what, tough titties. Grow up! Get perspective.

Main reasons for non-advancement of human race into Type 1 civilization: war, climate, religion, EGO. 

[CG1 Blue]

On 10/31/2020 at 9:50 AM, Morch said:

I'm sure many Muslims support violence against 'infidels' etc., I don't know that it's most, and sure that it's not all. Also, support doesn't necessarily equate with getting into in person. I'd  venture that in this, they are quite like most people - big on talk, less so when push comes to shove.

So what you're suggesting is that many of them secretly support violence against 'infidels', but keep it under their hats. That would certainly explain the lack of protests against the terror attacks that 'don't represent' their religion. 

[Morch]

20 hours ago, Susco said:

 

 

The same can be applied to the opposite, those who condemn the actions of the terrorists, there are far more Muslims who don't openly join those condemnations.

 

Fact however is, that the number of people who join the protest is much larger than the people who openly condemn the terrorists

 

Yes, but there could be more than one interpretation for this, and either way, to infer that this represents 'all' Muslims is not quite supported.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

So what you're suggesting is that many of them secretly support violence against 'infidels', but keep it under their hats. That would certainly explain the lack of protests against the terror attacks that 'don't represent' their religion. 

 

What I suggest is that you quote and reply to my post as whole, rather than cherry pick and comment on something out of context. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

 

As for 'that would certainly explain' - no, not 'certainly'.

[CG1 Blue]

52 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What I suggest is that you quote and reply to my post as whole, rather than cherry pick and comment on something out of context. Don't put words in my mouth, please.

 

As for 'that would certainly explain' - no, not 'certainly'.

It's quite normal to quote the part of the text that you want to respond to. Don't be so sensitive. 

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It's quite normal to quote the part of the text that you want to respond to. Don't be so sensitive. 

 

It is not normal, nor allowed by forum rules to do so in a manner taking things out of context, which you did. My original post addressed the point you raised, if failing to satisfy your agenda.

[Scott]

Here's from the netiquette in the forum rules:

 

2. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

[Scott]

Trolling graphic removed.   This is a discussion forum.