People warned not to let their guard down with Covid

[placnx]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

If there were as many Arabs as there are Chinese we may well have seen the same problem in 2012, no doubt you would still have blamed the Chinese.

 

Middle East respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus (MERS-CoV),^[1] or EMC/2012 (HCoV-EMC/2012), is a species of coronavirus which infects humans, bats, and camels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome–related_coronavirus

MERS was in no way so infectious as this Coronavirus. There are many previous pandemics originating in China. A virologist friend said that is because of the proximity that small Chinese farmers keep different species of domesticated animals, thus causing infections from wild birds (or bats) to pass further between pigs, chickens, etc, etc. This explains the propensity for China to be the origin of disease since the respiratory pandemics beginning in 1918, but as far back as Black Death plague pandemics in 6th, 14th,  and 19th Centuries China was their origin.

https://ipdefenseforum.com/2020/03/china-a-hotbed-for-pandemics-historically-experts-say/

N.B. This article is old and still attributes Covid-19 spread to the Wuhan Market, but this is now discounted.  

The following has interesting historical info on documented epidemics in China back to the Han Dynasty: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971207000355

[placnx]

20 minutes ago, AMFWolfie said:

Would help if everyone on every flight coming into Thailand had proper COVID/SARS swab test within 72 hours to comply with the fit to fly certificate rather than accepting the phone consultation companies which simply issue a FTF certificate  on a verbal conversation over the phone to see if you have any covid symptoms!! This is excepted by  certain airlines and by immigration in Bangkok from returning Thias yet no physical test has been carried out and explains why returning Thia's on flights have Covid. Pretty sure if they have just paid best part of £1000 for an economy flight they are hardly likely to tell someone on the other end of the phone they have any covid symptoms and risk not being able to fly...I suppose £80 phone consultation and certificate  versus £225 for proper swab test and certificate at a proper clinic is the deciding factor. Its also unfair on the Farangs & Thais that have to have the proper swab test and 100% know they are free of COVID/SARS to board a flight with other people who have simply had a phone conversation and hope they are free of it...

It would be more sensible to have an antigen test on the check-in line. Most infectious pax would be detected. Some airports are doing this. That does not rule out quarantine, though, but would make flying safer.

[Percy P]

9 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

Something not so good might happen , too ... it's risky .

If people who think not wearing a mask doesn't matters ok, that's there problem. I'll wear one for sure and keep a safe distance . These people are only fool's into them selve. 

[Migrosmarket]

49 minutes ago, Mak25 said:

He also urged restaurants, hotels, tourist attractions, shopping malls, sports stadiums, retail shops, transports, health and beauty centres, exhibition centres, theatres and travel agencies to implement preventive measures, such as setting up Covid-19 screening

Yes lets go the whole hog..... 14 day quarantine to visit Big C..... or is it 10 days now?

 

And.... travel agencies? Are there any now? 

[AMFWolfie]

30 minutes ago, placnx said:

It would be more sensible to have an antigen test on the check-in line. Most infectious pax would be detected. Some airports are doing this. That does not rule out quarantine, though, but would make flying safer.

I believe Heathrow have 1 hour testing now but only applicable to specific flights. Would be great if everyone boarding had a test first and if Ok you fly. Very simple. When on arrival another test to satisfy the arrival country health rules, quarantine for 48 hours and providing all test come back negative again. pretty sure no one has it and could leave quarantine opening up tourism again..everyone's a winner with no risk..and more importantly ...no covid...

 

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, AMFWolfie said:

I believe Heathrow have 1 hour testing now but only applicable to specific flights. Would be great if everyone boarding had a test first and if Ok you fly. Very simple. When on arrival another test to satisfy the arrival country health rules, quarantine for 48 hours and providing all test come back negative again. pretty sure no one has it and could leave quarantine opening up tourism again..everyone's a winner with no risk..and more importantly ...no covid...

Yes, if Thailand really wants to rescue its dying tourist-industry it would have to be according to a scheme like you outline higher.  The current entry-schemes are NOT for tourists, only those with family or romantic ties in Thailand and currently stranded outside will be desperate enough to even consider tackling the hurdles to re-enter the Kingdom.    

[ronaldo0]

22 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, if Thailand really wants to rescue its dying tourist-industry it would have to be according to a scheme like you outline higher.  The current entry-schemes are NOT for tourists, only those with family or romantic ties in Thailand and currently stranded outside will be desperate enough to even consider tackling the hurdles to re-enter the Kingdom.    

Yeah I looked again at it yesterday as I can enter due to having a Thai wife and being in uk is driving me insane frankly . But while I can get insurance, I can get a reasonable price one way flight , the ASQ for 14 days was around 30,000bht so not too bad but an unnecessary expense. But the times for pre flight tests and things needed to book and pay for before getting the COE all while sending your passport to embassy to get a visa while lockdown is starting again is mind numbing to say the least ! I gave up looking after 20 minutes !

Edited November 5, 2020 by ronaldo0

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

4 hours ago, steevjee said:

Not all of the West,  Australia and NZ are now genuinely Covid free, not so sure about China and a few others

Too many of the right wing governed Western countries (think USA & UK) put Wealth before Health and opened far too quickly, now they are paying the price for their greed before need policies

Which price? Norway has had nearly no deaths for months. Sweden has had nearly no deaths for several months. Denmark is about the same. Despite the fact that there is nearly no economic lockdown, here. And those who died and the extremely few that die these days, are all older and nearly all in old people's home.

 

And what is the price of the economic shutdown, that a great part of the world has done? 8000 children more than normal, every day, starve to death on this planet. Millions more will starve to death before the year is over. Not to mention the hundreds of millions that will sink into deep poverty, with malnutrition and starvation as a consequence. Together with all those losing their jobs, the soaring numbers of suicides, those, who lose their business, etc., etc., etc.

 

And for those countries that has completely locked down - China, Thailand, Australia, etc. - when are they opening up again? Ever? Because the corona is here for good, is it not? And the vaccine? Can such be developed? Will it be efficient? When will it be ready? And now it looks like the covid has done a serious mutation on Danish mink farms, which means that the vaccine that is being developed now, won't work on the new strain. And what if a new virus with the same infection mortality rate as the covid emerges every other year - are we then going to shut down the world economy forever? How many will die from that, you think? 

 

More than a million die from malaria every year. More than a million die from cholera every year. More than a million die in traffic accidents every year. Half a million die from the flu every year. And so on, and so forth. If no lockdowns were made, probably 2-3 million would have died with covid in a 12 month period. And with the recent knowledge we have about the virus, less will die in the future. We have more and more medicine to treat it. Already now, here in Scandinavia, the infection mortality rate is FAR below that of the seasonal flu! Please do check the numbers before you say anything! They are extremely easy to come by. 

 

To totally shut down countries like Thailand and Australia have done, is unintelligent, shortsighted, and definitely brutal to so many people. Cost & Benefit. Everything comes with a price!

[xtrnuno41]

It was yesterday i believe, i red 12000 people died in traffic up to now.

In 10 months it comes up to 40 people /day die in Thailand in traffic.

Why would you worry about covid?

[Andy from Kent]

From a LiveScience article  it appears possible Mankind may be in for a bumpy ride in the future.

 

Corona virus may just be the beginning of a New World.

 

https://www.livescience.com/dangers-of-zoonoses-pandemics.html

 

Current investigations of potential zoonotic viruses, funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development's (USAID) PREDICT program, suggest that there are over 1.6 million unknown viruses in birds and mammals. Based on decades of expertise, an estimated 700,000 of these agents could pose a zoonotic risk, according to the Wildlife Conservation Society.

Emergence of these as-yet-unidentified threats results from the ever-shrinking separation between humans and wild ecosystems and organisms. Changes in human population size and distribution, land use, infrastructure and consumption all impact the wild world, shake out the pathogens lurking in the dark and increase the potential of zoonotic illnesses to emerge.

[Is this real]

How can there be a threat if all cases are stopped upon entry, as reported? 

[gamini]

11 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Spot on.  But blame can also be placed with many governments for their lousy handling of this pandemic.  China's under control, the West isn't.

Particularly in the UK!

[placnx]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

The lab conspiracy theory has been disproven.  By many experts.

If you have a link, please show it

[roxnadz]

This situation plays very well into the Thai government’s hands. They don’t have to deal with throngs of stinky farang passing into the country, they don’t have eyes watching their many violations of human rights, and they get to conveniently reinvent themselves as an expansion of the Chinese influence in SEA. Like our government here in the US, any move to help ordinary people who have built their lives around tourism is pure theatre, as they are bought and paid for. 

 

72 people died on Thailand’s roads yesterday and all it got was a shoulder shrug. But look at the amount of investment that has been made in the name of 3800 sick and 59 dead over nine months. If you can even believe the official numbers. Statements like this merely keep the fear and xenophobia ratcheted up.

[edwardandtubs]

If half of people are not wearing masks and the virus isn't spreading then clearly the other half can relax and take their masks off too.

[tomauasia]

I wear a clean face mask and the Thais don't wear. Most any way. What guard lol.

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, placnx said:

If you have a link, please show it

Just one of hundreds.

 

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html

Myth: The virus was probably made in a lab

No evidence suggests that the virus is man-made. SARS-CoV-2 closely resembles two other coronaviruses that have triggered outbreaks in recent decades, SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, and all three viruses seem to have originated in bats. In short, the characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 fall in line with what we know about other naturally occurring coronaviruses that made the jump from animals to people.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

In the end, it was China's fault.  They tried to hide it, lied about, and allowed wild, endangered species, to be kept live inside cages INSIDE wet markets. A recipe for disaster.  As has happened in the past.

No country is without blame, it is a matter of intent but as far a China is concerned McCarthyism prevails.

The history books have many instances involving huge loss of life where the intent was perfectly clear. Remember the saying about glass houses and stones.

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

No country is without blame, it is a matter of intent but as far a China is concerned McCarthyism prevails.

The history books have many instances involving huge loss of life where the intent was perfectly clear. Remember the saying about glass houses and stones.

Agreed!  But the virus did go from animal (bat?) to human in China.  Like has happened before (SARS, etc).  And these things do happen because of live, wild animals in cages inside wet markets.  Something the Chinese could stop, but won't.  So I hear ya, but I'll still place blame on China for not controlling this better.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, placnx said:

MERS was in no way so infectious as this Coronavirus. There are many previous pandemics originating in China. A virologist friend said that is because of the proximity that small Chinese farmers keep different species of domesticated animals, thus causing infections from wild birds (or bats) to pass further between pigs, chickens, etc, etc. This explains the propensity for China to be the origin of disease since the respiratory pandemics beginning in 1918, but as far back as Black Death plague pandemics in 6th, 14th,  and 19th Centuries China was their origin.

Quite. It would be fairly obvious that cramped poverty conditions would create a high risk of disease and the Chinese are being blamed for doing what they have always done.

Other countries have had their problems but blame tends to be proportional to effect rather than cause. Not long ago the UK created disease in cattle through malpractice but it wasn't an infectious airborne disease so not a great deal said.

With the covid outbreak, ebola has become distant memory, how lucky was the world that it wasn't an airborne disease?

Coronavirus is nothing new and if more effort had been put into a vaccine for SARS & MERS the world may well have been better prepared. Instead of trying to put all the blame on the Chinese, it could be said that it was the west that allowed it to happen.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed!  But the virus did go from animal (bat?) to human in China.  Like has happened before (SARS, etc).  And these things do happen because of live, wild animals in cages inside wet markets.  Something the Chinese could stop, but won't.  So I hear ya, but I'll still place blame on China for not controlling this better.

No different here.

Turtles are a protected species but you still see them being sold for food in the markets, alongside the rats.

There tends to be  consensus that the bat is the origin but not that it has passed from bat to human, more likely that it mutated to an intermediate host, as in the case of MERS, the most popular theory being snakes.

If the host has the virus, wet markets become irrelevant, people around here will eat large snakes if they get them.

[Rimmer]

An argumentative troll post pushing a disproved agenda has been removed

[xtrnuno41]

 I red, the jump from animal virus corona to human are extreme rare.

The lab in Wuhan had the virus. For manipulation to bring it to humans?

We already had SARS and MERS, also starting in Asia. 

There are many labs in the world working, keeping (studying?) viruses, you dont really know what they are doing with it.

In the beginning there were virologists saying it couldnt be done by human.

But also cloning of animals works and is executed. Also with humans? No one knows?!

Now there is a Chinese virologist, who had to flee to USA, as she said she find out and had prove of making the virus.

It was a month or two ago. Even brought on USA tv. Dont hear anything now anymore. So they are investigating or is the Chinese virologist dead? 

In Denmark 17 million minks were killed, as they find a new mutated virus of covid.

It means we are a long way off from not having the virus and having a vaccine.

And PCR tests seem to be not reliable.

[FarFlungFalang]

14 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Just one of hundreds.

 

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html

Myth: The virus was probably made in a lab

No evidence suggests that the virus is man-made. SARS-CoV-2 closely resembles two other coronaviruses that have triggered outbreaks in recent decades, SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, and all three viruses seem to have originated in bats. In short, the characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 fall in line with what we know about other naturally occurring coronaviruses that made the jump from animals to people.

There are reports of a new mutated corona virus transferring from minks to humans in Denmark where something like 17 million minks are being culled.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mutant-mink-coronavirus-in-denmark-sparks-plan-to-put-down-15-million-animals/2020/11/05/d8fd8c56-1f58-11eb-ad53-4c1fda49907d_story.html

[Marco100]

If there is no covid cases reported why warning people not to let their guard down with covid ? I am confused .

 

[edwardandtubs]

The international community has given the WHO authority to investigate the origins of Covid-19 and no theories have been ruled out, although apparently we're not allowed to mention one on this forum.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

The international community has given the WHO authority to investigate the origins of Covid-19 and no theories have been ruled out, although apparently we're not allowed to mention one on this forum.

The conspiracy theory it was created in a lab has been ruled out.  Luckily, it's against forum rules to post fake information here.

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, Marco100 said:

If there is no covid cases reported why warning people not to let their guard down with covid ? I am confused .

 

Some of his more knowledgeable colleagues also warned about not letting your guard down for loose-running lions and hyenas.

And in a bid not to be outdone by his colleagues the famous dr Yong from Chulalongkorn University, warned about taking precautions for velociraptor-attacks.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

double post removed

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Peter Denis

[edwardandtubs]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

The conspiracy theory it was created in a lab has been ruled out.  Luckily, it's against forum rules to post fake information here.

Please show us the source that says the WHO will not be investigating this. The one you posted previously doesn't.