1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm not so sure.  So far, none of the legal challenges seem significant.  And with so many states turning towards Biden, even if he loses one, he'll still win.

 

The big question!  Will he resign, like happened in the past, and have Pence, as POTUS, pardon him?

 

 

In 2000 the Supreme Court did not decide in favor of Bush until Dec. 12.  Trump and his minions are not just going to roll over, however clear the decision of the electorate is against him.  Those Republican justices on the Supreme Court are ready to do the job for which they have been preparing for their entire careers.

 

Yes, if Trump cannot steal the win, he will resign, take a pardon, and probably flee abroad.  If I were his lawyer, that's what I would advise him to do

2 minutes ago, J Town said:

Supreme Court has turned down every one of his attempts so far. The deal with THIS court and not the court of public opinion is the absolute requirement of compelling evidence of which there is none.

 

J Town, you lack an eye for detail.  No appeal has reached the Supreme Court on the voting counts and so the SC has not taken any action to date.  

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

 

In 2000 the Supreme Court did not decide in favor of Bush until Dec. 12.  Trump and his minions are not just going to roll over, however clear the decision of the electorate is against him.  Those Republican justices on the Supreme Court are ready to do the job for which they have been preparing for their entire careers.

 

Yes, if Trump cannot steal the win, he will resign, take a pardon, and probably flee abroad.  If I were his lawyer, that's what I would advise him to do

Presidential pardons don't cover state level crimes. SDNY is salivating uncontrollably, waiting for the instant 45 has his crown removed (probably forcibly). Fleeing the country with his tail tucked between his legs to a country without an extradition agreement is his best bet.

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

J Town, you lack an eye for detail.  No appeal has reached the Supreme Court on the voting counts and so the SC has not taken any action to date.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vote-lawsuits/2020/11/05/77f8a284-1f84-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

J Town, you lack an eye for detail.  No appeal has reached the Supreme Court on the voting counts and so the SC has not taken any action to date.  

They've taken some action on how the votes should be conducted and what ballots are admissible. But the fact is, even if they end up restricting late ballots for Pennsylvania, Biden's margin is going to be too big for that to make a difference.

Inflammatory post reported and removed. 

 

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

Presidential pardons don't cover state level crimes. SDNY is salivating uncontrollably, waiting for the instant 45 has his crown removed (probably forcibly). Fleeing the country with his tail tucked between his legs to a country without an extradition agreement is his best bet.

 

See what I mean about missing the detail.  The fact, which you appear to be incapable of absorbing, is the SDNY is part of the US Dept. of Justice, not the NY State government.  So a pardon would indeed end any attempt at prosecution by the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY.

 

I know it's hard, but try to understand.

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

They've taken some action on how the votes should be conducted and what ballots are admissible. But the fact is, even if they end up restricting late ballots for Pennsylvania, Biden's margin is going to be too big for that to make a difference.

 

Quite right and, in my opinion, the SC stands at the ready to perform legal arabesques to give the election to Trump.  The fact that they haven't done so already is only because the opportunity has not yet appeared.  Too early to tell which way they go.  Violence in the street by the Trumpists will be lead in to a judicial coup.

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

 

See what I mean about missing the detail.  The fact, which you appear to be incapable of absorbing, is the SDNY is part of the US Dept. of Justice, not the NY State government.  So a pardon would indeed end any attempt at prosecution by the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY.

 

I know it's hard, but try to understand.

You're right about that but the fact is that NY State is investigating Trump for fraud.

Did Trump Overvalue His Properties? Here’s What We Know About the Inquiry

The New York State attorney general is investigating whether the president and the Trump Organization improperly inflated the value of his holdings.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/nyregion/trump-letitia-james-investigation.html

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Youlike said:

Let me help the best President of the World a bit, just for you deniers here... What about this?? anyone?? please?

 

 

Let me help you before your post is deleted:

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-pennsylvania-media-social-media-cffc1bf12660177b0c651f98054a3a76

NOT REAL NEWS: A look at what didn’t happen this week

 

When processing ballots, county officials rely on a machine extractor to open the ballots and some ballots become damaged during the process, preventing them from being scanned. In order to count those votes, the man in the video was manually transcribing the votes from the damaged ballots to a clean ballot so they could be properly scanned. The damaged ballots were positioned next to the new ones for election observers to witness, and they were preserved.

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-ap-fact-check-pennsylvania-media-social-media-cffc1bf12660177b0c651f98054a3a76

This is a video of workers transcribing damaged ballots. It's been edited to remove the bipartisan observers supervising their activity.

 

I do wish the mods would let this falsified video stand to show how fake news is distorting the election results.

No outgoing POTUS has ever left a bigger mess than 45. Consider:

 

-235,000 dead from a pandemic 45 ignored and downplayed from day 1

-record new CV-19 infections despite 45 claiming 'we've turned the corner on Covid'

-largest increase in National Debt in any 4 year period; 45 added 38% of total 244 year US accumulated debt

-largest yearly budget deficit ever

-long term alliances, which aided US and world growth since end of WWII, fractured and need rebuilding

-Unemployment of around 9%

-an economy smaller than 45 inherited from President Obama

-Farm Belt in tatters from 45's bad trade policies that necessitated 45 turning US farmers into "Socialists" with tens of billions in US Taxpayer-funded handouts

-lowest 'favorable' rating of US internationally since at least the Vietnam Conflict

 

A post which would normally be removed will remain for the time being.  Keep in mind, if you post false or misleading information you may face a suspension.  

 

 

38 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

See what I mean about missing the detail.  The fact, which you appear to be incapable of absorbing, is the SDNY is part of the US Dept. of Justice, not the NY State government.  So a pardon would indeed end any attempt at prosecution by the US Attorney for the Southern District of NY.

 

I know it's hard, but try to understand.

From what I understand, he's facing a lot of issues at the state level.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-legal-troubles-possible-indictment-doj-mueller-new-york-2020-11

56 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The big question!  Will he resign, like happened in the past, and have Pence, as POTUS, pardon him?

 

The answer is simple.  Don't charge him with anything until February.

 

(I think he will resign, though more for the "you can't fire me, I quit!" effect.  He'll then go through life insisting he never lost, but voluntarily resigned after he'd done his job better than anyone else in the whole world).

7 hours ago, vinci said:

I'm pretty sure the world would like to see Trump gone

Correct.

 

http://www.gallup-international.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Leaders-2017.png

https://www.gallup-international.com/surveys/global-leaders-2/

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

From what I understand, he's facing a lot of issues at the state level.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-legal-troubles-possible-indictment-doj-mueller-new-york-2020-11

 

Yes, and NY state is more likely to put him away than Biden's DoJ which is likely to hurt the Dems politically since they hope to get more votes from the current Trump supporters in the future, not fire them up for revenge.  

 

The politics of a prosecution in NY State are altogether different.  Leticia James, the Attorney General of NY State, looks in the mirror every morning and sees the future governor of NY.  The District Attorney for Manhattan, Cy Vance, Jr. is under a cloud that could endanger his next chance for re-election.  In the period before Trump became president Vance's staff attorneys prepared a solid case against Don Jr. and Ivanka for real estate fraud.  They were awaiting the okay from the boss to bring charges.  In the meantime however Vance had lunch with one of Trump's lawyers, Marc Kassowitz.  After the lunch Vance did two things: he stopped the investigation of the Trump spawn permanently and returned a $20,000 contribution to his re-election campaign that Kassowitz had previously made to avoid the appearance of influence peddling.  A few months later, mirabile dictu, his campaign accepted  a $50,000 donation from Marc Kassowitz.  

 

When news of his bribe-taking came out the voters were furious, but Vance was running unopposed that year.  His fear is that the voters will not have forgotten by his next re-election time.  However, if he has successfully prosecuted Trump in the meantime, he will have become a hero in liberal NY and all will be forgiven.

 

So, yes the NY Atty General's office is going to nail Trump.  But he'll be long gone by then.

 

1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

 

Yes, and NY state is more likely to put him away than Biden's DoJ which is likely to hurt the Dems politically since they hope to get more votes from the current Trump supporters in the future, not fire them up for revenge.  

 

The politics of a prosecution in NY State are altogether different.  Leticia James, the Attorney General of NY State, looks in the mirror every morning and sees the future governor of NY.  The District Attorney for Manhattan, Cy Vance, Jr. is under a cloud that could endanger his next chance for re-election.  In the period before Trump became president Vance's staff attorneys prepared a solid case against Don Jr. and Ivanka for real estate fraud.  They were awaiting the okay from the boss to bring charges.  In the meantime however Vance had lunch with one of Trump's lawyers, Marc Kassowitz.  After the lunch Vance did two things: he stopped the investigation of the Trump spawn permanently and returned a $20,000 contribution to his re-election campaign that Kassowitz had previously made to avoid the appearance of influence peddling.  A few months later, mirabile dictu, his campaign accepted  a $50,000 donation from Marc Kassowitz.  

 

When news of his bribe-taking came out the voters were furious, but Vance was running unopposed that year.  His fear is that the voters will not have forgotten by his next re-election time.  However, if he has successfully prosecuted Trump in the meantime, he will have become a hero in liberal NY and all will be forgiven.

 

So, yes the NY Atty General's office is going to nail Trump.  But he'll be long gone by then.

 

Your analysis is dead right. It does seem like they have an extremely strong case against Trump. But no conviction is ever guaranteed. Particularly since Trump will have access to the best laywers money can buy. Even if that money is Putin's.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Your analysis is dead right. It does seem like they have an extremely strong case against Trump. But no conviction is ever guaranteed. Particularly since Trump will have access to the best laywers money can buy. Even if that money is Putin's.

 

What one might expect, but not actually true.  The reason Trump does not have top-notch Washington lawyers working for him right now and is stuck with third-raters like Consovoy and Sekulow, is that the top tier Washington firms refused to work for him, during impeachment time for example, because he has a well-deserved reputation for not paying.

 

Most of the crimes for which he will be charged will be financial crimes for which the evidence is going to be documents, not eyewitness testimony.  If they get him in a trial he will be convicted.

6 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

What one might expect, but not actually true.  The reason Trump does not have top-notch Washington lawyers working for him right now and is stuck with third-raters like Consovoy and Sekulow, is that the top tier Washington firms refused to work for him, during impeachment time for example, because he has a well-deserved reputation for not paying.

 

Most of the crimes for which he will be charged will be financial crimes for which the evidence is going to be documents, not eyewitness testimony.  If they get him in a trial he will be convicted.

Lawyers specializing in criminal cases have different criteria from white shoe firms.

18 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Washington firms refused to work for him, during impeachment time for example, because he has a well-deserved reputation for not paying.

 

Were not trump legal representatives during impeachment not funded by Federal government?

In September 2019, Donald Trump’s lawyers debuted a bold new legal argument. Attempting to quash a subpoena from the Manhattan District Attorney’s office, which had requested eight years of tax returns to determine if the Trump Organization has falsified business records relating to payouts made to a porn star and a Playboy model, the president’s attorneys insisted that such a request was unconstitutional because the founding fathers believed sitting presidents should not be subject to the criminal process, which would “distract the president” from his duties.

 

Pressed by a judge on this argument, and the hypothetical Trump busted out during the 2016 election—that he could “stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody” and not “lose any voters”

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/donald-trump-post-white-house-prosecutions

 

Worth to read. 

 

  

 

 

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Were not trump legal representatives during impeachment not funded by Federal government?

Good question to which I don't know the answer.  But that was the reason that the top Washington firms declined his otherwise highly desirable impeachment business.

I thought Biden would win (and said so on here several times) and covid saved him. Trump's time is over although, I must say, there should be a time limit as in all elections not keep counting for weeks to get the result you want. That being said Biden obviously won but nowhere near the landslide the Libs were predicting nor their pollster friends (who did supress the vote a bit). All in all Biden scraped in and USA is still deeply divided.

7 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I thought Biden would win (and said so on here several times) and covid saved him. Trump's time is over although, I must say, there should be a time limit as in all elections not keep counting for weeks to get the result you want. That being said Biden obviously won but nowhere near the landslide the Libs were predicting nor their pollster friends (who did supress the vote a bit). All in all Biden scraped in and USA is still deeply divided.

If the numbers hold, Biden will get 306 electoral votes.  Just like Trump did in 2016.  Which he called a bigly win.  Or would you say Trump also just scraped in?

 

And Biden has won the popular vote.  Something Trump didn't.

 

Libs predicting?  Wow...a bit biased, eh?  But yes, the senate didn't turn out like they thought.  Just like the house didn't turn out like the Trump guys thought in 2018.

 

I hope that Biden can fix Covid, but I fear that McConnell will sabotage him so that by the 2022 the by then millions of deaths with be Biden's fault, not Trump's.  Here's how that will work.  In order to solve the Covid crisis with or without a vaccine, Biden will need to impose a nationwide lockdown for eight to twelve weeks.  But, to avoid a civil war, the government will have to pay everyone whose livelihood they have thereby destroyed, like the CARES Act, but better designed to save state and local governments from collapse as well as households and businesses.  So, we are talking about some trillions of dollars that the Congress must authorize the Treasury to pay out.  But without Senate approval no such bill can ever become law.  We know that McConnell refused additional disaster relief funds even when it would presumably have helped Trump's re-election efforts.  Is he any more likely to agree to such a bill to save the Biden administration?  On the contrary, as he did during the Obama administration, McConnell will work to sabotage the US economy including the health crisis for the purpose of keeping the Dems to one term.  

 

That's why the Biden administration needs to pursue some of the non-conventional means to gain control of the Senate as I have outlined in another post.  

15 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

I hope that Biden can fix Covid, but I fear that McConnell will sabotage him so that by the 2022 the by then millions of deaths with be Biden's fault, not Trump's.  Here's how that will work.  In order to solve the Covid crisis with or without a vaccine, Biden will need to impose a nationwide lockdown for eight to twelve weeks.  But, to avoid a civil war, the government will have to pay everyone whose livelihood they have thereby destroyed, like the CARES Act, but better designed to save state and local governments from collapse as well as households and businesses.  So, we are talking about some trillions of dollars that the Congress must authorize the Treasury to pay out.  But without Senate approval no such bill can ever become law.  We know that McConnell refused additional disaster relief funds even when it would presumably have helped Trump's re-election efforts.  Is he any more likely to agree to such a bill to save the Biden administration?  On the contrary, as he did during the Obama administration, McConnell will work to sabotage the US economy including the health crisis for the purpose of keeping the Dems to one term.  

 

That's why the Biden administration needs to pursue some of the non-conventional means to gain control of the Senate as I have outlined in another post.  

Biden is known to be very close to Mitch.  So much so that dems during the Obama era would complain about it.

 

We'll see, but Mitch has been terrible for the US.  Blocking much needed legislation.  And being an enabler for a lying POTUS.  Sad he got reelected.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Biden is known to be very close to Mitch.  So much so that dems during the Obama era would complain about it.

 

We'll see, but Mitch has been terrible for the US.  Blocking much needed legislation.  And being an enabler for a lying POTUS.  Sad he got reelected.

 

It's not about personalities.  Mitch's job is to deliver for the Republican donor class who pay the bills for the Republican Party.  What he has to deliver is lower taxes on the rich and reduced regulation for their businesses.  When the Republicans are not in position to pass their own legislation, Mitch's job is to block the Dems from soaking the rich to pay for their social programs.  In his many years in the Senate Mitch has never been responsible for any major piece of legislation, except tax cuts.  He boasted about intending to hold Obama to one term, at which failed, and to block his Court appointment, at which he succeeded.  McConnell would undoubtedly sell his mother to achieve his mission.  How much hesitation do you think he will feel about his erstwhile "friend" who is now his biggest obstacle?

53 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

It's not about personalities.  Mitch's job is to deliver for the Republican donor class who pay the bills for the Republican Party.  What he has to deliver is lower taxes on the rich and reduced regulation for their businesses.  When the Republicans are not in position to pass their own legislation, Mitch's job is to block the Dems from soaking the rich to pay for their social programs.  In his many years in the Senate Mitch has never been responsible for any major piece of legislation, except tax cuts.  He boasted about intending to hold Obama to one term, at which failed, and to block his Court appointment, at which he succeeded.  McConnell would undoubtedly sell his mother to achieve his mission.  How much hesitation do you think he will feel about his erstwhile "friend" who is now his biggest obstacle?

I hear ya, but the oath of office they take doesn't say be good to your party's big donors.  Yup. Both parties are corrupt.  And change is desperately needed.  It's no longer for the people.  Just the select few.

 

Crazy times and people like Trump, Mitch and Lindsay are a big part of the problem.  Sadly, their supporters don't see it that way.  Winner take all in their minds.  Until they are on the losing end! ????

On 11/6/2020 at 11:41 AM, robblok said:

The Trump followers on this forum are awfully quiet I think they know that they can only win now with dirty tricks. 

I think they are punishing us by forcing us to clap with one hand. 

Without their provactive comments this is beginning to sound like a Faux News echo chamber. 

Gloating in the mirror is just ineffective. 

Stiil, after getting nauseous every morning for four years reading the news, I'll take it. 

15 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   It could quite likely be *President Harris* before the four years is up .

What fun thats going to be 

I would be happy to see it. If the ConservoBots hated Obama, think how much they'll hate a half-black,Half-Indian as President. I want to watch their heads explode. Diversity is what America needs MORE of.