Biden camp considers legal action over agency's delay in recognizing transition

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

  

Hillary conceded at 2:30 AM on election night.  The election was officially over.  The 2020 election has only the networks projecting a winner.  The election result has not been certified.  Certification dates for states vary, starting on Nov. 10 and into Dec. for some states.  And we have no idea of the impact from the multiple lawsuits being filed.  A lot is still up in the air.  To claim there is a winner would be false and misleading.  That should make the difference clear for you.

Your argument boils down to 'clinton conceded, Trump not'. Someone not able to face reality doesn't mean reality is not there.

 

Biden has won, Trump conceding or not should be immaterial for the agency to release funds for the transition to start.

[jcsmith]

7 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

Let's ignore that elections don't typically get disputed when there are margins anywhere near this. The only real election dispute in recent memory was the Gore/Bush one in 2000, which was separated by 537 votes in a state where Bush's brother was governor. That's a far cry from this. 

Trump is down by:

46k votes in Pennsylvania
35k votes in Nevada
20k votes in Wisconsin
15k votes in Arizona 
13k votes in Georgia

Let's say they find some evidence of voter fraud. It might gain him a couple hundred votes. Or he might lose a couple hundred votes. If Biden's lead holds he'd be at 306 electoral votes. If Trump somehow came back to win Arizona and Georgia (very unlikely), and then let's say he also wins Nevada miraculously, that would only gain him 33 votes. He needs to gain 36 votes. Any other candidate would have conceded days ago.

Now it's certainly in his right to ask for recounts, to contest things. But he knows, McConnell knows, pretty much anyone who is being honest to themselves knows that he has lost. There is no widescale voter fraud. He's been beating that drum for months for this moment so he could try to hold onto power. What is both amazing and embarrassing is how many republicans has jumped on board and volunteered to go down with this sinking ship with him. 

Then he does things like today where he starts firing people during the transition. Doesn't cooperate with the incoming administration. Obama certainly had no love for Trump but they cooperated with him. They were cordial with him. Trump is simply incapable of being cordial or cooperating with anyone if it doesn't benefit him.

[Phoenix Rising]

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The man gave 4 years of his life to turn the U.S. around...

Are you serious??

[Tippaporn]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

We have no way of knowing the veracity of Trump's legal challenges.

 

The man gave 4 years of his life to turn the U.S. around while enduring literal hell from those who hate him when he could have easily lived his life out enjoying the fruits of his labour.  If he feels he has merit to his claims then we could be gracious and extend our respect to him to pursue what he is rightfully entitled to by law.  Just as any American has that right.  Or do you not respect the rights of your fellow Americans only because you hate them?  Okay for some but not others?  Equal justice under the law?

The man gave 4 years of his life servicing the debt he has with taxpayer funds, by renting out his properties for government functions. He's not enjoying the fruits of his labour, he has $420 million in debt coming due.

Your post goes beyond ludicrous, please tell me when Trump has been gracious and respectful to anyone who did not scrape and bow? If you want to talk about equal justice, please tell me how America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, way over-represented by black Americans?

Trump takes no salary.  He donates it.  You can claim anything you want about his personal finances but without any evidence then you are simply stating potentially false and misleading statements regarding his debt.  America's claim to fame regarding incarceration rates did not happen under Trump.

 

By all means DO NOT answer my three questions.  Avoid answering at all costs, even if you have to change the subject matter to something  else.  Those three questions may be toxic to you.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Then here's a helpful piece of advice:

Do not participate by posting in a thread which topic is the transition of power from trump to President-Elect Biden.

 

  This thread is about Biden threatening to take legal action against an agency, anyway , I know it will be pointless asking, so continue talking about Donald, some of you are obsessed with him and dont seem to be able to talk about anything other than him 

[Phoenix Rising]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  This thread is about Biden threatening to take legal action against an agency......

Yes, an agency that takes its orders from trump. So remind me again how trump in no way is part of the topic of this thread??

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You're the one trying to dress up Trump's prolonged legal tantrum in the guise of a noble exercise of right. The point is just because you're exercising your legal rights that's no proof of the morality of your cause.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

[BangkokReady]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

In addition, the team has no access to the State Department, which usually facilitates calls between foreign leaders and the president-elect, the official said.

Doesn't Biden usually work through a family member?

[Phoenix Rising]

Just now, Tippaporn said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

By all means, trump should go ahead an waste the courts' time but they're chucking out these inane lawsuits as soon as he files them.

And that sanctimonious "who's next" claptrap from a guy who's for 4 years defended trump trying to turn the government into his own personal organization.......I mean, really??? 

[BangkokReady]

48 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Did you get it now?

I get that you don't know what despite means and wasted your time writing an explanation that made no sense..

 

People who think that the MSM claiming something means that it must have happened.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Trump takes no salary.  He donates it.  You can claim anything you want about his personal finances but without any evidence then you are simply stating potentially false and misleading statements regarding his debt.  America's claim to fame regarding incarceration rates did not happen under Trump.

 

By all means DO NOT answer my three questions.  Avoid answering at all costs, even if you have to change the subject matter to something  else.  Those three questions may be toxic to you.

Trump has made millions charging govt staff for the privilege of staying at his resorts. Republicans have booked expensive events at this hotels. He had Mike Pence cross to the west coast of ireland to stay at his resorts. Foreign governments have booked events and rented office space and living space at his properties. Please, give it a rest.

[Meat Pie 47]

8 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

But it was OK for Trump to announce he won the election before counting started 

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

Who's stopping him from suing? He can still allow Biden's team access just in case the nearly impossible occurs and he loses in court.

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

34 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

Trump has made millions charging govt staff for the privilege of staying at his resorts. Republicans have booked expensive events at this hotels. He had Mike Pence cross to the west coast of ireland to stay at his resorts. Foreign governments have booked events and rented office space and living space at his properties. Please, give it a rest.

Why do you not answer the very pertinent question I asked?

 

As to your claim it is most likely false and you certainly have no evidence whatsoever as to what the Trump organization does with monies received from governmental use of his properties.  It's suggestive and misleading at best.

 

The Washington Post - Trump Organization’s donation to U.S. Treasury shows drop in foreign government profits

 

President Trump’s company said it donated $105,465 to the U.S. Treasury last month, an amount that it said reflects its profits from foreign-government bookings at its hotels last year.

 

“While not legally required, for the third year in a row, we are honored to fulfill my father’s generous pledge to donate profits from foreign government patronage at our properties, back to the United States Government,” Eric Trump wrote.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Why do you not answer the very pertinent question I asked?

 

As to your claim it is most likely false and you certainly have no evidence whatsoever as to what the Trump organization does with monies received from governmental use of his properties.  It's suggestive and misleading at best.

 

The Washington Post - Trump Organization’s donation to U.S. Treasury shows drop in foreign government profits

 

President Trump’s company said it donated $105,465 to the U.S. Treasury last month, an amount that it said reflects its profits from foreign-government bookings at its hotels last year.

 

“While not legally required, for the third year in a row, we are honored to fulfill my father’s generous pledge to donate profits from foreign government patronage at our properties, back to the United States Government,” Eric Trump wrote.

We would have to take their word for it. And you have no evidence that the monies they return are an accurate accounting And it doesn't include offices and purchases of condominiums and such. And we know the Trumps have quite a way with computing profits. But apart from that, it doesn't address the money that the US government spends at his resorts. Plus there is that billion dollar sweetheart deal that bailed out the Kushners and is at least partially financed by the Qataris.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Why do you not answer the very pertinent question I asked?

 

As to your claim it is most likely false and you certainly have no evidence whatsoever as to what the Trump organization does with monies received from governmental use of his properties.  It's suggestive and misleading at best.

 

The Washington Post - Trump Organization’s donation to U.S. Treasury shows drop in foreign government profits

 

President Trump’s company said it donated $105,465 to the U.S. Treasury last month, an amount that it said reflects its profits from foreign-government bookings at its hotels last year.

 

“While not legally required, for the third year in a row, we are honored to fulfill my father’s generous pledge to donate profits from foreign government patronage at our properties, back to the United States Government,” Eric Trump wrote.

Are these the 3 silly questions you are referring to?

Or do you not respect the rights of your fellow Americans only because you hate them?  Okay for some but not others?  Equal justice under the law?

Edited November 10, 2020 by placeholder

[tilaceer]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Hillary conceded to Trump in a 2:30 AM phone call to Trump on election night.  The election results weren't being contested in 2016.  2020 is not 2016 in any way, shape or form.

The only difference is Trump will not accept the results. Hilary did.
Trump therefore is trying to utilize legal battles to try and contest Biden's victory.
Judges have already either tossed out or ruled against the majority of Trumps suits in four states, and a recount in Wisconsin is unlikely to change the electoral result. 
There is also a distinct possibility that the remaining suits might not even make it as far as the Supreme Court.
So the only difference is, without any substantial evidence, Trump is claiming voter fraud because he doesn't accept the results, in his usual petulant way.

And I quote from the advisory board of the non partisan Centre for Presidential Transition, (made up from both parties),

"While there will be legal disputes requiring adjudication, the outcome is sufficiently clear that the transition process must now begin," said the panel, which includes former George W. Bush White House chief of staff Josh Bolten and Mack McLarty, who had the job for Bill Clinton. "We urge the Trump administration to immediately begin the post-election transition process."

 

 

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

Frivolous litigation

Frivolous litigation is the use of legal processes with apparent disregard for the merit of one's own arguments. It includes presenting an argument with reason to know that it would certainly fail, or acting without a basic level of diligence in researching the relevant law and facts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation

 

Trump Election Lawsuits Have Mostly Failed. Here's What They Tried

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/10/933112418/the-trump-campaign-has-had-almost-no-legal-success-this-month-heres-what-they-ve

 

 

[onthedarkside]

A post making false and unsupported claims with no credible attribution whatsoever re Vice President-elect Joe Biden has been removed, along with another post's abbreviation of a profanity.

 

[placeholder]

59 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.  The courts will decide.  In any case he has the legal right.  If anyone wants to take that away from Trump for purely personal reasons then who's next?

And speaking of frivolous litigation. In one Arizona lawsuit, the Republicans actually contended that ballots were disallowed because they were filled in with Sharpies. SHARPIEGATE! It is to laugh. But maybe the Supreme Court will take that one up. Maybe they'll even write their decision using Sharpies. But if they did, would their decision be valid? Crusading Republicans want to know.

Edited November 10, 2020 by placeholder

[Throatwobbler]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

  

Hillary conceded at 2:30 AM on election night.  The election was officially over.  The 2020 election has only the networks projecting a winner.  The election result has not been certified.  Certification dates for states vary, starting on Nov. 10 and into Dec. for some states.  And we have no idea of the impact from the multiple lawsuits being filed.  A lot is still up in the air.  To claim there is a winner would be false and misleading.  That should make the difference clear for you.

Trump has lost. He and is supporters are just acting like spoilt brats. The sooner you accept the truth the easier it will become for you.

[Throatwobbler]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

We have no idea of how Trump's lawsuits will affect the currently projected claimed states.  We shall have to wait and see if there is substance.  No one can say with certainty whether there is or not at this time.  Folks can speculate as much as they like but it doesn't alter current reality.

I really get a sense of straws being clutched at here. A desperation not to accept the truth. Trump has lost.

[Sujo]

17 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Frivolous litigation

Frivolous litigation is the use of legal processes with apparent disregard for the merit of one's own arguments. It includes presenting an argument with reason to know that it would certainly fail, or acting without a basic level of diligence in researching the relevant law and facts. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation

 

Trump Election Lawsuits Have Mostly Failed. Here's What They Tried

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/10/933112418/the-trump-campaign-has-had-almost-no-legal-success-this-month-heres-what-they-ve

 

 

Go a step further and the courts can determine him a vexatious litigant. One who sues on anything and everything with no basis and is banned from further litigation unless approved by a court, loosely interpreted but thats the gist.

[Throatwobbler]

Trump is appealing for funds to fund his court cases to fight the election results. If you look at the fine print in these appeals it says that half the money will be used to pay off his campaign debt. This is why he is not conceding now. He is heavily in debt from the campaign. Just looking to fleece more of his gullible supporters to pay off his debt.

[shdmn]

Biden is now up to 50.8% of the popular vote.  Topping Reagan's 50.7% in 1980.  This is the highest percentage for a challenger since FDR in 1932.

 

Instead of wasting time going down the rabbit hole of repub lies (but I repeat myself), the media should be saying "Joe Biden wins largest popular mandate since 1932".

Edited November 10, 2020 by shdmn

[watthong]

10 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I would really like to know if the the supporters of Biden on this thread, were given unequivocal evidence that there was voter fraud, would they care? Would they care if they knew the election was rigged?

I'm not saying it was, but there is a marked lack of interest in waiting for recounts and challenges. Gore's challenges went for weeks. Isn't it important to know that the vote still has meaning?

I understand the enthusiasm, but the vote is the foundation of everything America stands for.

 

A propos, there is no "unequivocal evidence that there was voter fraud," nor that "the election was rigged." Far from it, the folks working the voting booth both in front and back rooms are hell-bent on protecting the integrity of this election so  what is the point of your roundabout question? 

 

Lemme guess. This manner of say, debating, is similar to the way Barr, the most corrupt AG that the US has ever known, usually goes about - albeit with more convoluted legalese verbiage - trying to persuade anyone who care to listen that his logic/reason is the correct one. Begin with something innocuous (such as "vote still has meaning...") so that he got you to think here's a sensible chap, then go back and forth between "your" side and "our" side, peppering with opaque phrasing ("I'm (saying but I'm) not saying...,") while sandwiching in his bias under the guise of innuendoes/implications ("marked lack of interest in waiting" - who is marking and who is waiting?) one slice at a time and just when you happen to blink, he would sneak in his "winning" argument and gotcha! The unaware doesn't quite know why they ended up letting such garbage shoved down their throat.

 

If you want to adopt Trump's "there're fine people on both sides" argument just go ahead and say it. The mods won't stop you. The tactics the Reps are using  which could crudely be described as "the thief sounding the alarm" don't fool anyone except those wanting to have an excuse to do nefarious deeds such as, in this care, declare the election a fraud. "The only way we lose this election is if the voting is rigged" is Trump version of "head I win, tail you lose" that one can expect from a schoolyard bully or a banana republic despot, not from the leader of a democracy. 

 

Well the voting is not rigged, no matter how many rocks you are looking under. Yes, "the vote is the foundation of everything America stands for" (there could hardly be a more sensible sounding argument, ain't it?) But that appears exactly the pro-Trump crowd's problem at the moment: they simply don't want that foundation to remain standing hence they are moving heaven and earth to declare this election a fraud without a single shred of evidence. So why don't you check with them, the noisemakers, instead? 

Edited November 10, 2020 by watthong

[joecoolfrog]

12 hours ago, JusticeGB said:

Votes are still being counted and the news channels are not the people who call elections. Until all votes are counted the Agency can't call the Election. 

Really ?

I think you will find that in the last election the call was made before all votes were counted, and for the vast majority of elections preceding that.

I know , you know and every sane person in the universe knows that this is just Trump being a baby.

At the end of the day it just confirms what many of us have known all along , Trump only cares about himself and to help with the consequences, the GOP will not come out of this very well.

 

[joecoolfrog]

11 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

I expect they are waiting to see whether any voting fraud has occurred .

   If it can be proven that dead people registered and voted , the election would have to be voided and another election held  , this time without mail in votes

Now that's what I call grasping at straws lol.

There is more chance of Godzila winning the next election than this one being avoided.

Many people have suggested that a great number of Trump supporters are utterly delusional , the evidence for that seems to be climbing rapidly.

[CorpusChristie]

9 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

Now that's what I call grasping at straws lol.

There is more chance of Godzila winning the next election than this one being avoided.

Many people have suggested that a great number of Trump supporters are utterly delusional , the evidence for that seems to be climbing rapidly.

Cannot disagree , not allowed 

[joecoolfrog]

Some of you seem somewhat confused so let me clarify ;

Biden is the new president , Trump is an I'll mannered , trucculent loser !

All clear now ?