The sad state of Thai labour in the countryside

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, bodga said:

Well even just to take care of the garden area they arent interested in, garden is 1  acre  2.5  rai and is  low maintenance, everything on sprinklers, Fruit is 12  rai, we  may  just abandon growing the fruit completely, even when they get  offered 40%  of any profits they dont want it.

The main problem is they  just up an leave,  no warning often leaving us in a  real mess, have to cancel appointments even flights  sometimes.

Ive had enough of the attitude and lack of work ethic Ill sell get a condo by the sea and have a less stressful  life without having to think about staff beacsue no matter what you offer or  how  kind you are its  not appreciated.

I let the last  lot even use my pick up once every few  weeks, then they started using it weekly  then daily.........theyre all take take  take.

Sorry to hear that, a sign of the times.

Don't drive yourself into the ground, sell up if you must to keep your sanity, buy a nice place in a great location and thank yourself for being able to do so.

Watch the sunrise/sunset over a beach somewhere quiet... 

[kickstart]

8 hours ago, bodga said:

So  have had my land now for 8  years, staff were easy to find way back then, generally  Burmese, Thais dont want to do  this work on the land.

Ive noticed in the last 4-5  years more and more fields are being abandoned become overgrown etc, and staff are  getting harder to find and are  more lazy.

It doesnt matter what you pay, it doesnt matter what you give them in extra benefits such as free  electric, water ,  motorbike,  house etc etc.

Wife has spoken to a few  more people round here with farms and they all say the same, no one wants to work  on the land, even though many have no  jobs  now they will  not work on the land.

It pains me to sell up but it is  what it is, Im looking forwards to  maybe getting a life back instead of the constant worry of staff leaving at the drop of a  hat or just sitting doing very  little.

So here is the warning for  those thinking of  getting some land and growing anything, forget it, no one wants to work on the land anymore.

 Most crops now can grown by using tractors only no hand work involved ,even the few rice farms we have in this area the job is all mechanized.

Is it a case of farmers have got themselves in that much debt over the years they can not get any credit , and just abandon the land in my area Lopburi ,nearly all the farmable land is farmed .

The wife knows farmers with 1 million plus bank loans ,all from BAAC they somehow keep going ,just hoping for a good year when they can pay off their  debts.

In this area they is a lot of industry in the area , chicken factories ,electronic factories ,even a steel mill ,but the land is still farmed ,a lot of big farms now ,a lot of land is rented ,a problem 1000-1500 baht /rie/year,you need to grow a lot to make that pay ,hence all the mechanization ,it is a case of having too, the way forward .

The op grows top fruit ,bar Durian almost a dying industry we used to have a lot of orchards  in this area ,mainly mangos ,all gone ,mainly a low selling price of fruit no money to be made .

It has been said before ,in the not to distant future it will be big company farms farming in Thailand,we have one now in this area growing maize ,they is a few in the big rice growing provinces of Ayutthaya and Suphanburi

 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, peterpop said:

My friend has a restaurant in Chiang Mai.  Recently he advertised for a waiter/ waitress.  250Bht work from 5pm to 9 pm 5 days.  Zero response

 

Wow, it's amazing you can't get people to work for 5K a month when a minimum wage job pays ~10K.

 

 

[peterpop]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Wow, it's amazing you can't get people to work for 5K a month when a minimum wage job pays ~10K.

 

 

Good point but this is part time and half the hours, so it equates, and actually tips as well.  

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, peterpop said:

Good point but this is part time and half the hours, so it equates, and actually tips as well.  

 

Yes, it's half the hours, but it's from 5-9, and it's only half the money, so they either have to settle for half the money or work two jobs.

 

The best way to get help is to poach them...

 

A lot of big tippers up that way? 

[473geo]

46 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

not if the development of the country is well managed, it's not a simple one solution fits all, education for example needs to be improved, opportunities and support for the development of business and the economy needs to be provided centrally and locally, corruption needs to be addressed. failure to do this will result in the rural poor remaining the rural poor. if they are happy with that then fine. the uk benefits today from what started with the enclosures act in the 1500s, thailand is someway behind.

 

I would suggest the 'rural poor' in Thailand are much happier with their 'lot' than the urban poor in the UK and Bangkok mostly because their plot gives them options, not being solely reliant on hand outs from the government.

 

My mother in law is what you would class as 'rural poor' yet she has enough land to give each of her children a plot to build a home for their retirement years, enough land that they may grow rice and feed themselves. This is not a position I would expect the Bangkok or UK 'urban poor' to attain any time soon.

 

[OneeyedJohn]

I live in the country and see mechanised labour everywhere, by that I mean big combine harvesters doing all the work that 10 - 15 local people used to do 5 years ago with scythes and bamboo ties.

Tractors do the ploughing.

A relative has 6 - 7 rai of rice paddies that next year he is letting someone else tend. Too much trouble to do it on his own with no help.

[473geo]

8 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I live in the country and see mechanised labour everywhere, by that I mean big combine harvesters doing all the work that 10 - 15 local people used to do 5 years ago with scythes and bamboo ties.

Tractors do the ploughing.

A relative has 6 - 7 rai of rice paddies that next year he is letting someone else tend. Too much trouble to do it on his own with no help.

Possibly the economics he is better off taking payment in rice to eat and let somebody else try and make it pay

[TLeaf]

You must be paying them very little.  And the benefits package sound suspicious.  Why not just give them money?

 

If you give people enough money they will work on the land.

[samsensam]

3 hours ago, 473geo said:

 

I would suggest the 'rural poor' in Thailand are much happier with their 'lot' than the urban poor in the UK and Bangkok mostly because their plot gives them options, not being solely reliant on hand outs from the government.

 

My mother in law is what you would class as 'rural poor' yet she has enough land to give each of her children a plot to build a home for their retirement years, enough land that they may grow rice and feed themselves. This is not a position I would expect the Bangkok or UK 'urban poor' to attain any time soon.

 

 

 

i'm sure many rural poor in thailand  are relatively happy. the hierarchical nature of the society means people know their place, the lower class have very low expectations from life, low expectations are easily met.

[473geo]

1 hour ago, samsensam said:

 

 

i'm sure many rural poor in thailand  are relatively happy. the hierarchical nature of the society means people know their place, the lower class have very low expectations from life, low expectations are easily met.

 

Living a contented, relatively relaxed stress free life, may well be considered 'low expectation' by those with high expectation that fail to achieve such a lifestyle ????

[brianthainess]

20 hours ago, JWRC said:

My beautiful garden is overgrown and I have just sold the herd of 70 goats, I am too old now to do it all myself.

Maybe you should have kept a goat or two.

[Enzian]

A farang monk old friend just inherited money from his mother this year and used some of it (rest will go to other charities) to build two new monk kuti on his rural temple complex. He found a pretty good general contractor, and he himself worked construction all his younger life so he knew what he was doing. Biggest problem was that the men showed up hungover every day, some of them not even yet sober. Then they would be given clear instructions what to do and would do something different, to the point that something might have to be torn out and done over. Details that would never be accepted in the US would be considered good enough. Constant struggle.

[hotchilli]

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Wow, it's amazing you can't get people to work for 5K a month when a minimum wage job pays ~10K.

 

 

This was for short part-time hours... not full-time work.

5pm-9pm might have been interesting for a student etc.

[Yellowtail]

26 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

This was for short part-time hours... not full-time work.

5pm-9pm might have been interesting for a student etc.

 

I understand it a half-time job working evenings and likely Saturday & Sunday.

 

It's half the hours of a minimum wage job, for half the money of a minimum wage job, so it it still minimum wage, yes? But likely  without all the normal benefits of a minimum wage job. 

 

Yes, perhaps they'd get the odd three Baht tip now and then (if the manager doesn't take them) and perhaps they get a free meal.

 

Yes, it may have been attractive for for a student but apparently it was not. 

 

People have better options now than they have had in the past. 

 

I worked in entertainment for fifteen years and manufacturing for thirty both as direct labor and as management in both union and non-union shops. Except for isolated incidences, the problem is never poor labor, the problem is always poor management. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Yellowtail
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[Techno Viking]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

That is a disgrace, wanting to get overtime, they should work till the master says so. (sarcasm for the people who don't get it). They want money in their hand, not a room you picked or be able to use somebodies motorcycle.

 

In a factory environment as mentioned by the person you qouted working till their master says so aint gunna fly.... Unless of course you want the labour dept to come and ream you !!

[thaibeachlovers]

What about leasing the land, or growing non labour intensive things like trees.

 

However, if can get enough money for the land just enjoy a long holiday for the rest of your life. Most of us dream of that.

[Scouse123]

14 hours ago, 473geo said:

 

I would suggest the 'rural poor' in Thailand are much happier with their 'lot' than the urban poor in the UK and Bangkok mostly because their plot gives them options, not being solely reliant on hand outs from the government.

 

My mother in law is what you would class as 'rural poor' yet she has enough land to give each of her children a plot to build a home for their retirement years, enough land that they may grow rice and feed themselves. This is not a position I would expect the Bangkok or UK 'urban poor' to attain any time soon.

 

Yeah.

But you forget their kids don't want to stay on the land and live like that. They find it boring and want the ' city life '

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Techno Viking said:

 

In a factory environment as mentioned by the person you qouted working till their master says so aint gunna fly.... Unless of course you want the labour dept to come and ream you !!

Google sarcasm, I specially put it there for people like you.

[bodga]

18 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Generational? I never wanted to work.

me  too  hated it BUT it is  a  means to an end, thats all it ever  was for me and I worked  damn hard to get to that end retiring here at 42

[bodga]

14 hours ago, TLeaf said:

You must be paying them very little.  And the benefits package sound suspicious.  Why not just give them money?

 

If you give people enough money they will work on the land.

suspicious  yeah thats  right the new  house I  built them I rent back to them for 14k a month, the free  electric is  free for the first kw/hour after that 20  baht a unit, the free  water is for the first litre after that 500 baht a litre......I could  go on but Im bored with stupid replies

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, bodga said:

me  too  hated it BUT it is  a  means to an end, thats all it ever  was for me and I worked  damn hard to get to that end retiring here at 42

 

I wouldn't say I hated it, I had some jobs I liked, but like I used to tell my crew, I love working here, but the day they quit paying me you'll be able to shoot dice on my shirt-tails I'll be moving so fast. 

 

You don't sound retired...

[bodga]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I wouldn't say I hated it, I had some jobs I liked, but like I used to tell my crew, I love working here, but the day they quit paying me you'll be able to shoot dice on my shirt-tails I'll be moving so fast. 

 

You don't sound retired...

well  i dont have  anyone telling me what to do and I dont earn an income..............so what u call  that?

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, bodga said:

suspicious  yeah thats  right the new  house I  built them I rent back to them for 14k a month, the free  electric is  free for the first kw/hour after that 20  baht a unit, the free  water is for the first litre after that 500 baht a litre......I could  go on but Im bored with stupid replies

 

If I was working in the sun and had to pay 500 a liter for water I'd quit as soon as I was thirsty....

[Yellowtail]

Just now, bodga said:

well  i dont have  anyone telling me what to do and I dont earn an income..............so what u call  that?

 

I'm sorry, I was confusing you with another guy posting about the labor issues he had managing his farm. My bad...

[473geo]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Yeah.

But you forget their kids don't want to stay on the land and live like that. They find it boring and want the ' city life '

 

Economic migrants. Plenty that remain, marry have kids, live in the countryside, build a home on parents land live rent free, do some local work, close to family, maybe work in government positions. travel into the urban areas for work or weekends to 'party'. I am not denying young people go where employment is available. I am critical of the concept of eradication of the family plot and replacing with mechanised large farms, as I feel it will destroy the options, back up, and support, that the Thai economic migrants currently enjoy.

One great stress relief is knowing when you are working if you are out of work tomorrow you can return to the family home and reassess. Thai people do not have a strong welfare system.

Although I understand the corporate drivers behind large mechanised farming, to destroy the face, and family farm culture of rural Thailand in my opinion is not the way to.

Edited November 22, 2020 by 473geo

[473geo]

1 hour ago, bodga said:

suspicious  yeah thats  right the new  house I  built them I rent back to them for 14k a month, the free  electric is  free for the first kw/hour after that 20  baht a unit, the free  water is for the first litre after that 500 baht a litre......I could  go on but Im bored with stupid replies

My understanding of a 'tied cottage' is you offer a salary and the accommodation is offered to the employee as a free incentive. Suppose your workers could have found some cheaper accommodation elsewhere free with family of friends, they would feel you were taking advantage, and others would be quick to tell them so.

[Cake Monster]

21 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

You should also have employed a foreman separate from the workforce and kept yourself out of it. You cannot be friends with them! They have a different mentality.

 

Anybody that employs a Foreman, is really asking for trouble.

I went that route, and found that the guy in charge was allowing Theft on a huge scale, and production plummeted because he didnt want to upset his charges by asking them to get on with the Job.

All he wanted to do was " play " with the Ladies all Day

Never again.

As for the Coffee/ M150 breaks, extended Lunch breaks, Thais take them as a given FOC bonus for you to pay for the privilege of having them come work for you.

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Anybody that employs a Foreman, is really asking for trouble.

I went that route, and found that the guy in charge was allowing Theft on a huge scale, and production plummeted because he didnt want to upset his charges by asking them to get on with the Job.

All he wanted to do was " play " with the Ladies all Day

Never again.

As for the Coffee/ M150 breaks, extended Lunch breaks, Thais take them as a given FOC bonus for you to pay for the privilege of having them come work for you.

 

Yeah, that has not been my experience, but when when I fail at something others do successfully all over the world, I just try again. You hired one guy as a foreman and gave up. 

 

I'm guessing he was poorly managed. Hiring a foreman doesn't mean you can go out chipping golf-balls all day. 

[sead]

Time for you to take a trip outside Thailand and look for a workforce yourself. have that come in mind?