Trump and allies launch new efforts to overturn Biden victory in key states

[ChouDoufu]

17 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

By the numbers:  Roughly 80m voted for Biden, 74m for Trump. There are 328m Americans.  There are 47m Republicans (14% of the US population). Roughly half the Republicans (or roughly 7% of the US population) may think Trump should have won, but even that doesn't make all 7% of them corrupt lying, deluded conspiracy theorists.

 

So where do you get your 47.2% chance?

 

correction: 

 

as of yesterday, there are now 327,750,000 americans.

 

by inauguration day, expect that number to drop to 327,500,000.

 

such a legacy.

[billd766]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

While Trump attempts to salvage his Presidency, the real tragedy for Americans is the polarization and deaths he has caused, to serve his own selfish ends. More to come, until he is ejected.

And because of his pettiness, arrogance. and stupidity because of his refusal to concede and start the transition process with the true winners of the election, many more people will die needlessly.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Misty said:

 

By the numbers:  Roughly 80m voted for Biden, 74m for Trump. There are 328m Americans.  There are 47m Republicans (14% of the US population). Roughly half the Republicans (or roughly 7% of the US population) may think Trump should have won, but even that doesn't make all 7% of them corrupt lying, deluded conspiracy theorists.

 

So where do you get your 47.2% chance?

You're right, I realised after I posted I was going on the raw percentages, not the actual numbers. My bad.

[Meat Pie 47]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But still over 40% of Americans support that mutt. That is scary. 

Yes and a handful here on TVF

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

I agree that every country on the planet should strive to be militarily and economically independent. The harsh truth is most of them cannot readily achieve that goal independently, and fair trade and cooperation benefit all nations. If an alliance with America is not beneficial then it should be abandoned. Sooner or later most of the world will have to choose alignment with Western nations led by America, or with China; China is forcing the issue. The devil you know may be much better than the one you already suspect you know. China does not have your best interests at heart by offering to build your electrical grid, manage your ports, and build your telecom industry and your government has twigged to that already.

 

Trump has crippled America, and my history on this forum is rife with criticism for the Americans that elected him. It's not an accident that I retired and got on a plane to Bangkok in November 2016. I am established here, own property, investments, and plan to stay. We have recognized our lack of attention in letting this crackpot seize control of the presidency, but will not be so negligent again any time soon. Hopefully the Republican party will suffer some losses in the midterms, as they richly deserve. America has made some real mistakes, but has the ability to significantly contribute to the world peace and prosperity. It should be clear that a large majority of people didn't vote for Biden, they voted against Trump.

 

The CCP has less scruples than Trump and is blatantly bent on global domination. If America had had that goal it would have already achieved it and China would not be a threat. America soundly defeated Japan and then turned it into a powerhouse of industry; China will not do that with any country dominates. Look at what it has done already for Africa which is on the verge of becoming a satellite nation to China. If America investment is strong in Australia it is all about profit, not about politics. China's interest has nothing to do with money, it's all about power and resources.

 

So use a long spoon, but be careful about who else you invite to the table. America may not be your friend but it doesn't want to gobble you up.

A very thoughtful post, thank you.

I take no pleasure in seeing what is happening in America. During my working life, I visited America many times in many places, and enjoyed it immensely.

America is not perfect, Iraq was something we should have stayed out of because it was basically about oil. America has a history of accommodating dictators, as long as they don't rock the boat.

We'll have to disagree on politics, Murdoch was an Australian who became an American citizen. He's been meddling in Australian politics for decades, and has been one of Trump's key media backers until recently. A criminal, he should have gone to jail after the UK phone-tapping scandal.

The main concern with America now is that Trump is poisoning the well with his barrage of lies on twitter, even though they are now being flagged as disputed or baseless. There will be a fairly sizeable rump of Trump supporters for at least a decade who will continue to deify him despite all evidence to the contrary. His legacy is one of division and hatred.

There is a book by James Lee Burke published in the 1990's which is eerily predictive of Trump. In it, the author describes a fictional Louisiana politician and demagogue, whose followers believe in him even as he is betraying them for his own ends.

[Meat Pie 47]

It’s President Trump’s last remaining hope to hold onto the presidency – but a little digging reveals something disturbing about his Dominion claims.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/truth-about-dominion-scytl-conspiracy-theory/news-story/83b7681cabb44b35ea1c7090f3cd80ac

[alex8912]

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Actually fairly easy to know the minds of Trump’s supporters. They get their opinions from Fox News and other far right media outlets. None of which are very credible.

You can vote for not wanting someone else and not support ( especially to yours and others mixed up heads) the one you actually voted for. 

[alex8912]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

About 70 million people voted for Trump this time. How many of them think Trump won and how many think he lost and how many can't make up their mind? If these people would look at reality then they must realize Trump lost. That's it. Accept it. Maybe try again in 4 years. And if these people care about the USA, which they pretend they do, they should be interested in a smooth transition. 

Now let's look at reality. How many GOP members or GOP politicians even try to convince Trump that the race is over. You lost, accept it, at least try not to play the sore looser. Otherwise not just Trump is an embarrassment. The whole word does not only laugh about Trump, they also laugh about all those Americans who still think he didn't lose.

News flash. A large ( huge) majority of people that voted for Trump ( but let’s add in voted for but questioning for 2020 lol) know Biden is the Pres. to be sworn in Jan 20. 
What’s really crazy are the large amount of people ( and for sure TVF posters) that don’t seem to know this fact. Change the channel or better yet speak to a real American in America now. You act as if Trump and a few Reb guys represent the rest. 

[RocketDog]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

A very thoughtful post, thank you.

I take no pleasure in seeing what is happening in America. During my working life, I visited America many times in many places, and enjoyed it immensely.

America is not perfect, Iraq was something we should have stayed out of because it was basically about oil. America has a history of accommodating dictators, as long as they don't rock the boat.

We'll have to disagree on politics, Murdoch was an Australian who became an American citizen. He's been meddling in Australian politics for decades, and has been one of Trump's key media backers until recently. A criminal, he should have gone to jail after the UK phone-tapping scandal.

The main concern with America now is that Trump is poisoning the well with his barrage of lies on twitter, even though they are now being flagged as disputed or baseless. There will be a fairly sizeable rump of Trump supporters for at least a decade who will continue to deify him despite all evidence to the contrary. His legacy is one of division and hatred.

There is a book by James Lee Burke published in the 1990's which is eerily predictive of Trump. In it, the author describes a fictional Louisiana politician and demagogue, whose followers believe in him even as he is betraying them for his own ends.

Trump is a scourge on humanity. He started in America and he needs to end in America. It's up to America to eliminate him from any power and keep his ilk and his enablers positions of minimum influence and power. Given the task of renewal ahead of us, Americans will be consumed with that and shouldn't be involved in any foreign military excursions. Trump is intent on creating as much mayhem and mischief as possible before he is ejected, as he certainly knows he will be. Even then he will continue to drag society through the mud as his acolytes are inflamed to support him while creditors and the justice system pursue him. This on top of the virus and rebuilding the ravaged government bureaucracy is daunting. It won't be a good time for my country for the immediate future.

 

Vietnam was a mistake we learned something from, but not enough. His legacy can never be eliminated but can only be minimized. I don't pretend to know much about Australian politics but I do pay attention. Murdoch does seem to be the type of guy that doesn't think much about his people either. But again, his type is extant in greater force than we care to imagine.

 

I'm an avid reader and will take a look at Burke. He seems to be a prolific mystery author. A suggestion of the title in question would be helpful.

 

American politics has seen demagogues like trump before in state government positions. His brand of division and hatred always appeals to a fraction of the population. The shock for my country is seeing his type rise to the pinnacle of power. He has polluted and destroyed everything that most Americans hold inviolable, and hopefully this will serve as an object lesson in vigilance. His type of authoritarianism is gaining followers in more countries as larger parts of the world population feels socially neglected, politically marginalized, and economically cannibalized. These are the failures of governance that feed and elevate sociopaths like trump. These are these issues my country has to confront.

 

Anybody that understands American demographics sees the clear lines of division that represent the red states that supported trump's bid for dictatorship. Lack of economic opportunity, poor educational systems, and disaffection from the rest of the more progressive areas of society distinguish them. This is what has to change. Biden won't be able to do it in one or even two terms. Ultimately America has to find a way to distribute the benefits that a united peoples could create. America has the means, but whether it has the will is the open question.

 

Until then, it is probably best to not depend on America to be strategically involved in major global efforts. With the exception of defending Taiwan against invasion and cooperation on climate initiatives, America needs to focus on healing internal wounds and evolving the economy to something more than the debt engine we have now. A republican senate will largely hobble Biden on foreign policy and gridlock congress to the point of paralysis if it can.

 

 

[Psimbo]

B-52s deployed to the Middle East. This lunatic may just go full retard in his last few days.  If they hit Iran things will go toxic. Jus made the world more unsafe in a fit of pique, Thanks Donny.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, RocketDog said:

 

I'm an avid reader and will take a look at Burke. He seems to be a prolific mystery author. A suggestion of the title in question would be helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Title of the book is " A Stained White Radiance "

The passage that caught my attention:

"But Bobby Earl is out there by consent. He has his thumb on a dark pulse, and like all confidence men, he knows that his audience wishes to be conned. He learned long ago to listen, and he knows that if he listens carefully they'll tell him what they need to hear. It's a contract of mutual deceit by which they open up their flak vests and take it right through the breastbone.

If it were not he, it would be someone like him - misanthropic, beguiling, educated, someone who, as an ex-president's wife once said, allows the rest of us to feel comfortable with our prejudices".

[bendejo]

At this point it's about getting something before the US Supreme Court.  Likely Alito and Thomas will keep true to the party regardless of the hogwash presented, and the three he appointed are already there.

If the chief justice accepts the case at all, not good: welcome to Belarus.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by bendejo

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, Psimbo said:

B-52s deployed to the Middle East. This lunatic may just go full retard in his last few days.  If they hit Iran things will go toxic. Jus made the world more unsafe in a fit of pique, Thanks Donny.

Do you have a Link for this?

[bkkcanuck8]

39 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Do you have a Link for this?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-deploys-b-52-bombers-middle-east

 

You never know, maybe Saudi Arabia has promised Donald Trump help with his businesses if he took care of their problem for them ????

 

On a serious note though, there is no-one better at surrendering than Donald Trump so if it is meant as a threat - it would only be something that Iran would have to temporarily weather.

[Caldera]

The evidence of voter fraud remains as evasive as Rudy Giuliani's hair dye.

 

Concede already.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

8 hours ago, alex8912 said:

speak to a real American

That is in principle a good idea. But who are those real Americans?

I don't know many Americans but sometimes I talk to them. With some of them I can have a cordial conversation. When I ask them about Trump they agree that he is an <would be censored>.

And seldom I talk to an American who supports Trump. Most of the time I try to stay away from such people. But sometimes I ask them about Trump. And it seems they think he is the messiahs. Apart from that I couldn't get much sense out of them.

 

In general I think it would be a great idea if Americans would talk more with Americans from the other side. Maybe if they would do that more often they would understand each other better. The problem is obviously they have different realities. What is the middle ground between NYT readers and fox? Maybe they will be able to agree on the weather but that's about it.

[Jeffr2]

58 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/us-military-deploys-b-52-bombers-middle-east

 

You never know, maybe Saudi Arabia has promised Donald Trump help with his businesses if he took care of their problem for them ????

 

On a serious note though, there is no-one better at surrendering than Donald Trump so if it is meant as a threat - it would only be something that Iran would have to temporarily weather.

Seems they were deployed due to the troop drawn downs in various countries. Not specifically Iran.

 

https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/why-are-american-b-52s-back-in-middle-east-649871

[CaptRon2]

22 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

The purpose of these law suits is not really to win, it is to plant doubt into America's mass mind. The more, the louder you repeat a lie over and over the more people believe you. The more outrageous the lie, the more believable it becomes. It's a social dynamic Trump is exploiting. He is chipping away at Americans' capacity to think for themselves by drowning them in these lies.

I hope that his time runs out before then.

Your great knowledge on the purpose of the lawsuits would hold more water if you had a reference.

i believe the purpose of the lawsuits is to get this away from the alleged corruption of a few states and into the Supreme Court 

[Scott]

Inflammatory, off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, alex8912 said:

News flash. A large ( huge) majority of people that voted for Trump ( but let’s add in voted for but questioning for 2020 lol) know Biden is the Pres. to be sworn in Jan 20. 
What’s really crazy are the large amount of people ( and for sure TVF posters) that don’t seem to know this fact. Change the channel or better yet speak to a real American in America now. You act as if Trump and a few Reb guys represent the rest. 

News flash:  Half of Republicans think Biden won a rigged election.  That is what people here are commenting on.  https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1192884-half-of-republicans-say-biden-won-because-of-a-rigged-election-reutersipsos-poll/

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Do you have a Link for this?

Message to Iran: B-52 bombers deployed to Middle East

Message to Iran: B-52 bombers deployed to Middle East | Fox News

[RocketDog]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Title of the book is " A Stained White Radiance "

The passage that caught my attention:

"But Bobby Earl is out there by consent. He has his thumb on a dark pulse, and like all confidence men, he knows that his audience wishes to be conned. He learned long ago to listen, and he knows that if he listens carefully they'll tell him what they need to hear. It's a contract of mutual deceit by which they open up their flak vests and take it right through the breastbone.

If it were not he, it would be someone like him - misanthropic, beguiling, educated, someone who, as an ex-president's wife once said, allows the rest of us to feel comfortable with our prejudices".

Thanks, I'll look for it on my book club. 

 

The last paragraph of your post says it all. If Trump is educated however it's not evident in his statements or the word salad he speaks in. He shows no signs of the multiple level thinking that intelligent people use. Most of the time he doesn't complete thoughts or sentences demonstrating his incoherent thought process. This is not acceptable in a leader and made it difficult for orther world leaders to take him seriously. Most con men understand they are lying and employ it as a tool. Trump doesn't understand he is lying so deep is his sociopathy. 

 

These people will always be with us, we just can't allow them to co-opt such a powerful office again. 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Thanks, I'll look for it on my book club. 

 

The last paragraph of your post says it all. If Trump is educated however it's not evident in his statements or the word salad he speaks in. He shows no signs of the multiple level thinking that intelligent people use. Most of the time he doesn't complete thoughts or sentences demonstrating his incoherent thought process. This is not acceptable in a leader and made it difficult for orther world leaders to take him seriously. Most con men understand they are lying and employ it as a tool. Trump doesn't understand he is lying so deep is his sociopathy. 

 

These people will always be with us, we just can't allow them to co-opt such a powerful office again. 

IMO Trump is exhibiting cognitive decline, I'm reasonably sure when he was younger he was far more articulate.

You may find the attached analysis link interesting. It explains the reasons why America is so polarised.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-23/united-states-is-just-too-big/12907642

[ballpoint]

14 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Given this election, that should now say "Don't throw the bathwater out with the baby".

[RocketDog]

37 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Title of the book is " A Stained White Radiance "

The passage that caught my attention:

"But Bobby Earl is out there by consent. He has his t

I found the book on my club as an MP3 and am downloading it now. Thanks for that and the other link about understanding his supporter's attitude.

 

I admit that I have two long-time friends, both educated, intelligent, both support Trump. When I question one about trump's behavior in specific incidents he says he hasn't read about it so can't comment. He does say he wishes trump wouldn't tweet so much as it doesn't help him. I think this friend is being willfully ignorant because he doesn't want to defend stupidity. I want to keep them as friends, but now that we each know where we stand I think our friendship will wither away because we both let it. Sad, but at this point I guess there is no common ground anymore. I'm afraid this division is now too deep to heal. When the battle is over the very soul of the country, one must finally take a stance.

 

A Stained White Radiance by James Lee Burke Series: Dave Robicheaux(#5) Dave Robicheaux #5 [64] mp3 | 4 comments

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I found the book on my club as an MP3 and am downloading it now. Thanks for that and the other link about understanding his supporter's attitude.

 

I admit that I have two long-time friends, both educated, intelligent, both support Trump. When I question one about trump's behavior in specific incidents he says he hasn't read about it so can't comment. He does say he wishes trump wouldn't tweet so much as it doesn't help him. I think this friend is being willfully ignorant because he doesn't want to defend stupidity. I want to keep them as friends, but now that we each know where we stand I think our friendship will wither away because we both let it. Sad, but at this point I guess there is no common ground anymore. I'm afraid this division is now too deep to heal. When the battle is over the very soul of the country, one must finally take a stance.

 

A Stained White Radiance by James Lee Burke Series: Dave Robicheaux(#5) Dave Robicheaux #5 [64] mp3 | 4 comments

I've lived in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai for ten years now. I only know one American who supports Trump. The other half a dozen I do know are unanimous in condemning him.

I did have one Australian friend who admires Trump.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But still over 40% of Americans support that mutt. That is scary. 

 

Bolton said senior Republican leaders must act quickly to condemn Trump’s fight over the election result, to avoid alienating voters. “It’s a character test, which is why people need to speak up,” he said. Bolton added: “Right now, I think Trump is throwing rocks through windows. I think he’s the political equivalent of a street rioter.

 

“You can say what you want without worrying about a Trump Twitter rant that will just be a bunch of damp squibs at that point. 

[RocketDog]

34 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You may find the attached analysis link interesting. It explains the reasons why America is so polarised.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-23/united-states-is-just-too-big/12907642

I read the article and better understand the conundrum Australia has with the USA. It's similar to the 'Crazy Uncle' jokes about letting him out of the attic only for Thanksgiving but you really have to do it because he also owns the house.

I have told friends for quite some time that America should and probably will eventually split into confederations of states with similar cultures and beliefs. Large masses of people simply cannot find enough common ground to flourish. Social psychologists tell us that if groups are larger than about 100 people it is impossible for them to know each other and support each other despite differences.

 

The USA is so geographically diverse that society is a crazy quilt of beliefs and customs. It's easy to see California/Oregon/Washington forming an economic and political entity. Also the Southern states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia all share a common heritage. The east coast could break into two or more confederacies. Clearly states like Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri share some rather archaic social views and deserve each other. In short, it's better to separate and flourish individually than to perish collectively. It's obvious that decreasing the jack-boot footprint of the ever-expanding federal government would serve all people better as well. Whether the confederacies coalescing around fringe political or religious beliefs could survive economically is another question. To some extent the loose coalitions that already exist with radical beliefs already suffer from poverty, poor education, and lost social opportunity and in some cases have little economic clout; they may have to suffer an impaired lifestyle for the sake of their more generally objectionable beliefs.  Nobody every said life is fair.

[RocketDog]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I've lived in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai for ten years now. I only know one American who supports Trump. The other half a dozen I do know are unanimous in condemning him.

I did have one Australian friend who admires Trump.

My sense of it is that most American expats here are saddened and embarrassed by trump. I believe that is probably because the ones that have left the USA and made a new life here are free thinkers who believe in self-determination and liberty to pursue freedom. In some form or another they have self-selected to oppose tyranny and authoritarianism. While the Thai government is a democracy in name only, it clearly does not have the will to truly oppress/surveil/control its citizenry; economically exploiting them is sufficient for now. Prayuth craves power, but I don't think he's a megalomaniac with a filthy soul like our current president is. So we can accept the government here easier than we can the one at home.

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I've lived in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai for ten years now. I only know one American who supports Trump. The other half a dozen I do know are unanimous in condemning him.

I did have one Australian friend who admires Trump.

My sense of it is that most American expats here are saddened and embarrassed by trump. I believe that is probably because the ones that have left the USA and made a new life here are free thinkers who believe in self-determination and liberty to pursue freedom.

About Americans in Thailand and Trump:

Before the 2016 election I spoke with an American guy in my building. He just returned from the GOP primaries in Bangkok (I am not sure if that is the correct term). He was delighted that the majority voted for Trump. So it seem there are also lots of Americans in Thailand who support(ed) Trump.