Trump and allies launch new efforts to overturn Biden victory in key states

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

The remainder of Trump's Fab 5 legal strikeforce should also be scrutinize and face disbarment. Loony conspiracy theorist Sidney Powell, Ukraine shakedown husband and wife Joseph DiGenova and Victoria Toensing who once called Trump an idiot and can't be trusted.  

But Sidney Powell is not, was not and has never been, part of the legal team.  Apparently

 

PH

[ChouDoufu]

4 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Fraser's remark has a bit too much religious overtone for me, as if life was intended by somebody to be something in particular.

The only time Trump makes a mistake is when he repeats the same lie with variations on actual numbers or dates or people involved.

 

I seriously don't think he ever consciously lies however. He has lied so thoroughly for so much of his life that he is truly not aware that he's lying. He has learned that fabrication of facts are so often accepted by his minions that he believes whatever comes out of his mouth is true, he just can't exactly remember why he thinks it.

 

He is a completely flawed human with no consciousness of his actions, thoughts, or words. Obviously that appeals to too many people and that is what we should ultimately be concerned about.

 

if you listen carefully, he never cites sources.  it's always "i've heard..." or "people are saying....."  he never tells us where he heard it, or who's doing the saying.  makes it hard to fact check when there are no facts to check. 

 

after all, we can't prove he DIDN'T hear it somewhere, or that NO ONE said it.

[ChouDoufu]

9 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

But Sidney Powell is not, was not and has never been, part of the legal team.  Apparently

 

PH

 

the big man disagrees with you!  his very own tweet:

 

“I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defund OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives!” the president tweeted.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rudy-giuliani-sidney-powell-not-part-of-trumps-legal-team

[ChouDoufu]

5 minutes ago, J Town said:

Don't ya think if that was true it would have been exposed already? "Yeah, I know a guy who knows a guy."

So = false

 

nonono!  that's not how it works.

 

now i can claim, without lying, to have "heard people saying" that the ceo of aitch-pee has confirmed blahblahblah......

 

it's on the interwebs forever.

[RocketDog]

15 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

if you listen carefully, he never cites sources.  it's always "i've heard..." or "people are saying....."  he never tells us where he heard it, or who's doing the saying.  makes it hard to fact check when there are no facts to check. 

 

after all, we can't prove he DIDN'T hear it somewhere, or that NO ONE said it.

Agreed. It's a childish ploy to avoid responsibility, it's plausible deniability. But he often slips up and tells the lie at some point as if it's a fact or that it is the product of some great mental feat on his part. In his mind it may be. He is his own victim. He tells the lie to so often he finally believes it.

It's the same way he takes credit for things that he has not been even remotely involved in.

 

His lies are so outlandish that most people pretty quickly stop listening to him. That is just another aspect of what I don't understand about his supporters. Surely at least some of them know he is lying, but they either want to believe it very badly or consider it an inconsequential flaw in an otherwise noble man.

 

In the end I'm afraid it doesn't matter. Like some hardened criminals, many of his supporters are simply beyond the reach of reason.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It annoys the pig and wastes your time.

[Eric Loh]

27 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

But Sidney Powell is not, was not and has never been, part of the legal team.  Apparently

 

PH

Apparently wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8950261/Trumps-fab-five-president-names-legal-team-fight-election-courts.html

[scorecard]

33 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

but they are not claiming "fraud" in the courts.  lawyers are very careful with their words......in the courtroom where they would be held to account.  there are "potential irregularities" and "indications of malfeasance", but never fraud.

More to the point they offer no evidence. How can they get away with that again and again?

 

[rabas]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

nonono!  that's not how it works.

 

now i can claim, without lying, to have "heard people saying" that the ceo of aitch-pee has confirmed blahblahblah......

 

it's on the interwebs forever.

 

Well, it is now....

 

[onthedarkside]

A reported image post and replies have been removed.

[onthedarkside]

An unsubstantiated trolling post regarding voting machines and various replies have been removed.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

if you listen carefully, he never cites sources.  it's always "i've heard..." or "people are saying....."  he never tells us where he heard it, or who's doing the saying.  makes it hard to fact check when there are no facts to check. 

 

after all, we can't prove he DIDN'T hear it somewhere, or that NO ONE said it.

But he, you, and everybody knows that's unacceptable to a court and shouldn't be acceptable to a court. 

[scorecard]

Just now, scorecard said:

But he, you, and everybody knows that's unacceptable to a court and shouldn't be acceptable to a court. He knows there must be evidence and there never is.

Why doesn't he get his smart trump team to investigate there things 'he hears' and submit the findings. 

 

Why are so many people so willing to accept the rants of a madman with no morals?

[Phulublub]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Why doesn't he get his smart trump team to investigate there things 'he hears' and submit the findings. 

 

Why are so many people so willing to accept the rants of a madman with no morals?

The vast majority of us know the answer to the first question. 

 

Many of us are equally confounded and have no clue as to the answer to the second.

 

PH

 

[Meat Pie 47]

Just another article I read today 

Donald Trump refuses to defer executions to Biden administration

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-refuses-to-defer-executions-to-biden-administration/news-story/c6dc85043f7e2a29d02c43a3659ac6b0 

When will it stop?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

Just another article I read today 

Donald Trump refuses to defer executions to Biden administration

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-refuses-to-defer-executions-to-biden-administration/news-story/c6dc85043f7e2a29d02c43a3659ac6b0 

When will it stop?

January 20 at noon.

[Meat Pie 47]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

January 20 at noon.

Yes

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

not likely to be a problem at all.  even though trump appointed these judges, they are in no way required to rule according to his wishes. 

 

he wanted "strict constructionist, not activist" judges who will rule according to the law and legal precedent.  if they do accept one ,or possibly two, of his elite lethal team's hail mary's, the suits will be soundly defeated.

 

he wanted "strict constructionist, not activist"

As if he knows what those terms mean.

He does not stand for anything except himself and his money, then comes family.  Other than that he's about as concerned as he is for the insects he steps on at the golf course.

He sees the appointments as favors, and expects something in return.  Haven't you heard the word "transactional" often enough?

Having gone through Catholic instruction as a kid, I know that questioning the higher-ups and standing up to authority is not part of the culture. 

Kavanaugh already threw in a few weeks ago

https://www.thedailybeast.com/justice-brett-kavanaugh-parrots-trump-in-ominous-anti-mail-in-ballot-ruling-in-wisconsin-decision-footnote

 

Alito gave a speech a few weeks ago that could have been made in 1956 on the ill effects of Elvis Presley on society.  Probably thinks Vatican II was too radical.

 

 

[bendejo]

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2020/11/23/michigan-canvassers-who-could-face-felony-charges/6388235002/

 

 

[Slip]

Michigan has certified.  (as per the live feed of the meeting)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDuQquoM4sQ&ab_channel=MichiganDepartmentofState%2FSecretaryofState

 

[simple1]

After weeks of farce consisting of disinformation and lies from trump, sullying his name forever as a poor loser, Biden can now commence the transition process.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/23/us/joe-biden-trump

[RocketDog]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:26 PM, RocketDog said:

Agreed. Let America go its own way and leave the world to sort its own problems. The time for depending on the USA to "benefit" the world is over. 

 

Let Americans wallow in the squalor of their backward society and struggle to survive on its meager resources and uneducated masses of unproductive workers. Let them face the reality of how dependent they are on the largesse of the rest of the world. 

Apparently my sarcasm was misunderstood. 

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, heybruce said:

Trump is incapable of nuance, such as striking a reasonable balance between containing the pandemic and supporting the economy.  He decided that since the virus was bad for the economy, and he had bragged endlessly about the economy, it was better to pretend the virus wasn't important..

Good points. I add that he can't/doesn't think about anything other than in terms of himself and his ego, his racist and his white supremitist attitudes, and screw the USA. 

[Phulublub]

16 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Good points. I add that he can't/doesn't think about anything other than in terms of himself and his ego, his racist and his white supremitist attitudes, and screw the USA. 

And in terms of screwing trhe USA, have a look at what he is having done with regards to the Open Skies Treaty, and destry=oying the US ability to monitor potential aggressors.

 

PH

[onthedarkside]

8 hours ago, bendejo said:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/2020/11/23/michigan-canvassers-who-could-face-felony-charges/6388235002/

 

 

The Michigan state board has voted to certify the state's election results in favor of Biden:

 

https://www.cbs58.com/news/michigans-state-board-certifies-bidens-win

 

[ChouDoufu]

11 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

he wanted "strict constructionist, not activist"

As if he knows what those terms mean.

He does not stand for anything except himself and his money, then comes family.  Other than that he's about as concerned as he is for the insects he steps on at the golf course.

He sees the appointments as favors, and expects something in return.  Haven't you heard the word "transactional" often enough?

Having gone through Catholic instruction as a kid, I know that questioning the higher-ups and standing up to authority is not part of the culture. 

Kavanaugh already threw in a few weeks ago

https://www.thedailybeast.com/justice-brett-kavanaugh-parrots-trump-in-ominous-anti-mail-in-ballot-ruling-in-wisconsin-decision-footnote

 

Alito gave a speech a few weeks ago that could have been made in 1956 on the ill effects of Elvis Presley on society.  Probably thinks Vatican II was too radical.

 

 

 

i wouldn't read too much into that.  he was explaining a possible scenario of what states may be wanting to avoid. 

 

regardless, the us supreme court does not determine state election ballot rules.  those are decided by the state legislatures.  he was absolutely correct in his vote.  the state supreme court, not the legislature, extended the deadline.  that's unconstitutional.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-election-supreme-court-rules-againt-absentee-ballots-after-election-day/

 

meanwhile, in the case of pennsylvania, the state supreme court ruled to extend receipt of ballots by three days, when the state legislature voted not to.  that can was kicked down the road, letting it stand, but requiring ballots be segregated in the event it became decisive.  it did not.

 

had the contest been close, the supremes would have accepted the case again, and would have rightly ruled the state supreme court decision to be unconstitutional, giving trump the win in that race.  as it turned out, with only a few thousand ballots in play, the decision would not have changed the outcome, so they left it to a future court.

 

now don't think i'm a trump lover, i'm interpreting the law as written.  the legislature writes the rules, not the courts.  personally, i think that all valid ballots postmarked by election day should be counted within a reasonable time......7 days sounds good.  but we want to uphold that there constitution thing, so the citizens of the state are gonna have to elect representatives that will change the laws accordingly.  we don't want federal judges messing with the state election because of feelz.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

i wouldn't read too much into that.  he was not voicing a possibility of what states may be wanting to avoid. 

 

regardless, the us supreme court does not determine state election ballot rules.  those are decided by the state legislatures.  he was absolutely correct in his vote.  the state supreme court, not the legislature, extended the deadline.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-election-supreme-court-rules-againt-absentee-ballots-after-election-day/

 

meanwhile, in the case of pennsylvania, the state supreme court ruled to extend receipt of ballots by three days, when the state legislature voted not to.  that can was kicked down the road, letting it stand, but requiring ballots be segregated in the event it became decisive.  it did not.

 

had the contest been close, the supremes would have accepted the case again, and would have rightly ruled the state supreme court decision to be unconstitutional, giving trump the win in that race.  as it turned out, with only a few thousand ballots, the decision would not have changed the outcome, so they left it to a future court.

 

now don't think i'm a trump lover, i'm interpreting the law as written.  the legislature writes the rules, not the courts.  personally, i think that all valid ballots postmarked by election day should be counted within a reasonable time......7 days sounds good.  but we want to uphold that there constitution thing, so the citizens of the state are gonna have to elect representatives that will change the laws accordingly.

"regardless, the us supreme court does not determine state election ballot rules.  those are decided by the state legislatures.  he was absolutely correct in his vote.  the state supreme court, not the legislature, extended the deadline."

What you decided as being "absolutely correct" is actually absolutely controversial. This is a new doctrine concocted by extreme right wing legal theorists that the state legislature alone can make such decisions. But given the extreme right wing nature of the current court, they will probably adopt it.

Conservative Supreme Court justices are threatening a post-election coup

They are pushing a theory that makes a mockery of America’s constitutional design.

Conservative Supreme Court justices are threatening a post-election coup - The Boston Globe

[placeholder]

Detroit had more vote errors in 2016, when Trump won Michigan by a narrow margin. He didn’t object.

Republican Party leaders who urged Michigan's state canvassing board to hold off certifying the Nov. 3 election results before it met Monday cited what they described as "significant problems and irregularities" in Wayne County, home of Detroit.

But state and county election data shows that four years ago — when Donald Trump carried the state by a much narrower margin — twice as many Detroit precincts were out of balance.

Detroit had more vote errors in 2016 when Trump won Michigan by a narrow margin. He didn’t object then. - The Washington Post

 

Even though the vote was lower in the 2016 election it had twice the number of discrepancies as did this election. 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

"regardless, the us supreme court does not determine state election ballot rules.  those are decided by the state legislatures.  he was absolutely correct in his vote.  the state supreme court, not the legislature, extended the deadline."

What you decided as being "absolutely correct" is actually absolutely controversial. This is a new doctrine concocted by extreme right wing legal theorists that the state legislature alone can make such decisions. But given the extreme right wing nature of the current court, they will probably adopt it.

Conservative Supreme Court justices are threatening a post-election coup

They are pushing a theory that makes a mockery of America’s constitutional design.

Conservative Supreme Court justices are threatening a post-election coup - The Boston Globe

Once a legislature certifies the state results, that argument disappears as it basically affirms the decisions that incorporates the requirements that any courts earlier mandated.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Once a legislature certifies the state results, that argument disappears as it basically affirms the decisions that incorporates the requirements that any courts earlier mandated.

That's a different issue.

[placeholder]

Donor sues pro-Trump group over failure to prove voter fraud: 'Empty promises'

Fred Eshelman sued Houston-based True the Vote Inc., which promised to “investigate, litigate and expose suspected illegal balloting ad fraud in the 2020 general election,” Bloomberg reported. 

Eshelman, founder of Eshelman Ventures LLC, claimed that he “regularly and repeatedly” asked for updates on the initiative but was met with “vague responses, platitudes, and empty promises...” 

True the Vote filed four lawsuits in the weeks after the election, Bloomberg notes, but it dropped all of them last week.

Donor sues pro-Trump group over failure to prove voter fraud: 'Empty promises' | TheHill