Biden says UK border with Ireland must be open

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Being a member of the E.U. gave every European citizen the right to live and work in the UK , they were E.U rules, not the UKs rules 

How did the EU force their rules onto the UK without the UK agreeing to it? And didn’t that EU include the UK, so wasn’t it the UK itself who forced its own rules onto itself? 

[7by7]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

We were in the EU when those rules were formulated.

 To be fair; we weren't. We were when the directive came into force, so had a say in that, but as I say above 

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Although the FoM directive came into being in 2004, it was nothing new. What it did was simply bring together all the various bits and pieces contained in other directives since the Treaty of Rome.

 Of course, we knew all that when we voted to remain in the EC in 1975. Or those of us paying attention did.

[polpott]

9 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 To be fair; we weren't. We were when the directive came into force, so had a say in that, but as I say above 

 Of course, we knew all that when we voted to remain in the EC in 1975. Or those of us paying attention did.

Treaty of Maastricht, 1992.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons

 

"Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992."

 

There were forerunners but FOM as we know it today was1992. Signed on to by John Major, Conservative PM at the time. 

 

BTW. I voted leave in '75 as it was the Labour position at the time.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by polpott

[bangsaenguy]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:07 AM, JonnyF said:

Because Biden says so? Don't make me laugh. 

Not like Biden issued an order. It is part of negotation. No worries. Keep the border closed. Of course, you can not order Biden to sign a trade agreement either. Everybody is happy. Get an agreement with the EU

[7by7]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

Treaty of Maastricht, 1992.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-movement-of-persons

 

"Freedom of movement and residence for persons in the EU is the cornerstone of Union citizenship, established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992."

 

There were forerunners but FOM as we know it today was1992. Signed on to by John Major, Conservative PM at the time. 

 Yes, but that built on the fundamental freedoms, including freedom of movement for workers, enshrined in the Treaty of Rome and expanded upon by the Single European Act 1986 .

 

Where do my rights come from as an EU citizen?

 

The point being that freedom of movement was there in principle when we first joined, expanded in 1986 (thanks in no small part to Thatcher) and further expansion agreed to by Major in 1992.

 

Finally all the various parts were rolled into one via the Freedom of Movement Directive in 2004; which also sets restrictions on the freedom of movement rights. Such as the maximum three months residence unless either  engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. 

 

That various UK governments, Labour and Tory, have not enforced this as strictly as other member states is no one's fault but the UK's.

 

Of course, in the context of this topic all of that is somewhat irrelevant. As you said a few pages back, travel, residency, work, etc. by Irish and British citizens within the CTA dates back to 1923 and will continue post Brexit.

 

The issue is the crossing of the border by goods, not people.

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

They were rules that the UK helped formulate and willingly signed on to.

Yeah live and WORK no mentioned anything about poncing off the state.

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 To be fair; we weren't. We were when the directive came into force, so had a say in that, but as I say above 

 Of course, we knew all that when we voted to remain in the EC in 1975. Or those of us paying attention did.

Yeah i,m sure they did pay attention when they voted to stay in the common market,no one mentioned it morphing into an unelected dictatorship.fast foreward 35 years and the citizens older and wiser to respective government's chicanery voted to leave in a peoples vote.

Edited November 29, 2020 by kingdong

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Yeah live and WORK no mentioned anything about poncing off the state.

 

"Poncing off the state" is mentioned in the directive, though it doesn't use those words. The directive forbids it.

 

13 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Yeah i,m sure they did pay attention when they voted to stay in the common market,no one mentioned it morphing into an unelected dictatorship.fast foreward 35 years and the citizens older and wiser torespective government's chicanery voted to leave in a peoples vote.

 

The Council is the heads of each member state.

 

The Parliament is directly elected by citizens of member states.

 

Still, Brexiteers never let the truth get in the way of propaganda and lies.

 

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

EU rules the U.K. had a part in writing and passed in the UK Houses of Parliament.

 

Oh, and it worked the other way too, British citizens had the right to live and work in EU nations.

 

 

And did they have the right to go to eu nations and claim benefit under the respective nations welfare scheme?

[Evobase]

More meddling from the US. 

[polpott]

3 hours ago, kingdong said:

Yeah live and WORK no mentioned anything about poncing off the state.

Migrants from the EU provide a net positive to the British economy. I'm afraid that "poncing of the state" is largely an urban myth. The majority come here for work.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, kingdong said:

And did they have the right to go to eu nations and claim benefit under the respective nations welfare scheme?

Yes, and many British citizens who moved to

other EU nations did so.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, kingdong said:

Yeah i,m sure they did pay attention when they voted to stay in the common market,no one mentioned it morphing into an unelected dictatorship.fast foreward 35 years and the citizens older and wiser to respective government's chicanery voted to leave in a peoples vote.

The EU is not a ‘dictatorship’.

 

Proroguing Parliament and the attempt to govern by executive order is the closest any EU state has come to ‘dictatorship’, and that of course was the UK.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Evobase said:

More meddling from the US. 

Well if you will go ‘cap in hand’.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The EU is not a ‘dictatorship’.

 

Proroguing Parliament and the attempt to govern by executive order is the closest any EU state has come to ‘dictatorship’, and that of course was the UK.

 

 

All academic now,we,re out the people have spoken.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, kingdong said:

All academic now,we,re out the people have spoken.

 Yet you art still desperately trying to convince yourself via myths and misinformation that was the right decision!

[Loiner]

16 hours ago, kingdong said:

Yeah live and WORK no mentioned anything about poncing off the state.

That's why there's over 4 million of them, and increasing, applying to stay here and ponce for evermore. Even though, according to Remainers and Europhiles, the post Brexit UK will be a disaster the euro are still flocking for the free benefits. No need to work much, but put in 16 hours a week or do some seasonal stuff and a world of social security opens up to your average euro peasant and their offspring.

 

The apologists and bleeding hearts will constantly push the false propaganda that they contribute to the UK. Purported tax receipts from them are way too low, as are their taxable wages to make any substantial net contribution, while their burden on the UK services and infrastructure increases.  

[7by7]

@Loiner,

 

That EU migrants contribute more in taxes than they take out in benefits is a well established fact; proven many times in these forums. 

 

EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive

 

NHS boosted by EU migrants who pay more tax than Brits, report finds

 

EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals

 

Immigration from the EU is also falling: Net migration of EU citizens rose substantially from 2012 onwards, then fell sharply after the June 2016 EU referendum

 

Now you may say the number of applications under the EU settlement scheme gives the lie to that; but, as explained to you before when you tried to use those figures, that is because most applicants have to make two applications. See The progress of the EU Settlement Scheme so far

 

I await the evidence from you to contradict the above and so support the absurdities in your previous post. But do so in the full knowledge that you will not supply any.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

That's why there's over 4 million of them, and increasing, applying to stay here and ponce for evermore. Even though, according to Remainers and Europhiles, the post Brexit UK will be a disaster the euro are still flocking for the free benefits. No need to work much, but put in 16 hours a week or do some seasonal stuff and a world of social security opens up to your average euro peasant and their offspring.

 

The apologists and bleeding hearts will constantly push the false propaganda that they contribute to the UK. Purported tax receipts from them are way too low, as are their taxable wages to make any substantial net contribution, while their burden on the UK services and infrastructure increases.  

Meanwhile, racists and xenophobes continue to blame all the UK's ills on immigrants.

 

If only they weren't here, there would be no crime, everyone would have a job, the NHS would work perfectly, tax would be@1%, no virus would be present in the country,  and it would be 25p  - sorry 5 bob - for a pint. Post-Brexit this will, no doubt, all come to pass.

[polpott]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

That's why there's over 4 million of them, and increasing, applying to stay here and ponce for evermore. Even though, according to Remainers and Europhiles, the post Brexit UK will be a disaster the euro are still flocking for the free benefits. No need to work much, but put in 16 hours a week or do some seasonal stuff and a world of social security opens up to your average euro peasant and their offspring.

 

The apologists and bleeding hearts will constantly push the false propaganda that they contribute to the UK. Purported tax receipts from them are way too low, as are their taxable wages to make any substantial net contribution, while their burden on the UK services and infrastructure increases.  

 

Try inserting some facts in your venom.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Migrant_integration_statistics_–_labour_market_indicators

 

"In 2019, the EU-27 activity rate of working-age persons born elsewhere in the EU was 81.2 %, compared with 78.6 % for the native-born population and 73.4 % for persons born outside the EU"

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by onthedarkside
trolling reference removed

[onthedarkside]

An exchange of trolling posts over immigration has been removed.