Biden says UK border with Ireland must be open

[welovesundaysatspace]

10 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

Right, because the USA has 27 different official languages, over 2000 years of recorded history (with enmities and wars) and completely different major cultures?

 

Just like Europe has one major culture and one dominant language, with a strong federal government established 200 years ago right??

If you define “homogenous” as speaking the same language and eating the same food, then I guess the US may be more homogeneous than the EU. But then it also seems pretty pointless, because Europe with its different languages and foods seems to be living together more peacefully and united than the US. And I understand your point wasn’t languages and food, but internal conflicts. 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

 

Biden, you may be interested to learn, is not the only Irish American.  The Irish American population is about six times the size of Ireland.

 

A lot of us look forward to the not too far-off day when Sinn Fein forms its first government in the Republic.  

 

Most Irish Americans are soon going to be too busy worrying how to come up with reparations taxes to BLM rather than think about Northern Ireland.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Don't talk gibberish. Interference is clearly understood as someone or some thing intervening without invitation to do so. And Rob has years of posts where he complains about the US interfering. Had this been an instance of Biden demanding the Dutch increase their share of Nato spending, I imagine quite a few Dutchies would be out whining and complaining about US interference. Just like the Germans did about Trump and Nordstream 2. 

Maybe if you're a very sensitive type. It's possible to sharply disagree without labeling speech as interference. Your NATO example is a particularly bsd one since both America and The Netherlands are members. And since the Conservatives are pushing for a free trade agreement with the USA and not the other way around, the Biden administration has a perfect right to set conditions

 

[cmarshall]

10 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

So house prices have risen 50% since 2015 yet inflation has been around 2%?

 

One of those graphs is telling a lie...

 

If it were inflation, then rents would increase along with house prices.  But as we see in the graph below, which only covers the last five years unfortunately, house prices have been increasing faster than rents.  So, it's a housing bubble.  Without knowing the details of German inflation calculation, I am guessing that it includes rent, but not assets like stocks, gold, or houses.  

 

That's what you get with a trade surplus: low inflation, low interest rates, an increase in asset prices.  The same was true of the housing bubble prior to 2008 in Ireland and Spain, where the money was actually German money flooding into Irish and Spanish banks.  At time IIRC German home ownership was around 42%.  Now it's at about 51%.  

 

If you are unable to comprehend the difference between consumer price inflation and asset inflation, I can't help you.

 

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Don't talk gibberish. Interference is clearly understood as someone or some thing intervening without invitation to do so. And Rob has years of posts where he complains about the US interfering. Had this been an instance of Biden demanding the Dutch increase their share of Nato spending, I imagine quite a few Dutchies would be out whining and complaining about US interference. Just like the Germans did about Trump and Nordstream 2. 

Another crucial difference is that in the case of the Dutch and Nato the Trump administration was threatening to change the status quo. In the case of Ireland the Biden administration supports maintaining it. 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Another crucial difference is that in the case of the Dutch and Nato the Trump administration was threatening to change the status quo.

 

He was trying to get Nato members to pay what the agreed to pay and then refused to. Of course, he was all just hot air and Trump, like on everything else, talked big and carried a twig. But the hysteria in Europe when they were asked to pay their fair share was all "how dare somebody tell us how to uphold our international obligations!"

[Chomper Higgot]

55 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Usually, you're all aghast and angered at US interference across the globe. Now, suddenly you think it's just peachy.

You can produce a link to a post in which rob block is ‘all aghast’ or are you making baseless claims?

 

For the record, my own view is there is one thing worse than US ‘international interference’ , US isolationism. So don’t waste time looking for me being ‘all aghast’.

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

But the hysteria in Europe when they were asked to pay their fair share was all "how dare somebody tell us how to uphold our international obligations!"

There was no hysteria amongst European leaders. They just looked at each other and said, "Gob<deleted>e, he'll be gone in 4 years". How right they were.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

He was trying to get Nato members to pay what the agreed to pay and then refused to. Of course, he was all just hot air and Trump, like on everything else, talked big and carried a twig. But the hysteria in Europe when they were asked to pay their fair share was all "how dare somebody tell us how to uphold our international obligations!"

In the context of the topic of this discussion it might not be a good idea to use ‘international obligations’ as any part of the argument against Biden’s remarks to the UK.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Yea all those Brexiteers always complaining about the EU deciding things..  I don't get it at all

Yes you need higher order thinking skills to understand it.

 

4 hours ago, robblok said:

However I have read quite often that part of the reason there was so much hatred against the EU in the Uk was that their politicians (on both sides) blamed all wrongs on the EU instead of taking their own responsibility.

Once again totally out of touch with reality. just because you read it, doesn't mean it is true.

 

If you were British and had family and friends who were British or lived in the UK then you would have a better more rounded viewpoint and understanding to argue your point.

 

You go on about your country being pro EU. maybe the tide is changing and this from the left wing rag.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/06/dutch-voters-reject-closer-eu-links-to-ukraine-in-referendum

 

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/68155

 

Anyway your country has referendums and they just get ignored

 

[Muzzique]

6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

So we cant have a border in Ireland and we cant have a border in the Irish sea.

 

Don't be so hasty, I hear there is a partially built wall coming up for sale  soon in the USA that might work. You have to wait till 20th January though.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So speeches from different dates, 3 years apart, but transcript released on one day, so you think the speeches were given on the same day.

HMG would not have released anything unless it had been updated or there was some other reason to do so.

 

[Proboscis]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So we cant have a border in Ireland and we cant have a border in the Irish sea.

Only solution is to remain in the EU's single market.

Ergo Johnson will have to accept all the EU's demands for allowing access. 

Will that include freedom of movement?

No, there are other options - including variations that include a customs union. And there are many many other details too, from sharing of law enforcement data to the passporting (exporting of British) services, from the European Arrest Warrant (that involves even those who are not in the EU) to Air Traffic Control, from Drug Standards to Global Positioning Systems. None of these ever included freedom of movement.

 

There is a separate international agreement between the two countries, UK and Republic of Ireland that has enshrined freedom of movement between those two countries only. But belonging to a custom's union involving the EU does not mean freedom of movement. You would need a separate agreement for that, which as I understand is being proposed as a 90 day visiting permit (UK passport holder can visit an EU country for up to 90 days and EU citizen can visit UK for up to 90 days). This is being opposed by UK citizens who want to retire to Spain or the South of France. THose who already have residence are OK. The Irish government is complaining at the numbers of UK citizens who are suddenly discovering that grandma was born in Ireland and are exercising their rights to an Irish (and therefore EU) passport.

 

I remember Brexiteers making speeches saying things like, "yeah, we will keep some stuff that suits us from the single market but we will leave the EU." Only when the vote was marginally passed did the "leaving the EU" become a "hard Brexit."

[Barnabe]

51 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

If it were inflation, then rents would increase along with house prices.  But as we see in the graph below, which only covers the last five years unfortunately, house prices have been increasing faster than rents.  So, it's a housing bubble.  Without knowing the details of German inflation calculation, I am guessing that it includes rent, but not assets like stocks, gold, or houses.  

 

That's what you get with a trade surplus: low inflation, low interest rates, an increase in asset prices.  The same was true of the housing bubble prior to 2008 in Ireland and Spain, where the money was actually German money flooding into Irish and Spanish banks.  At time IIRC German home ownership was around 42%.  Now it's at about 51%.  

 

If you are unable to comprehend the difference between consumer price inflation and asset inflation, I can't help you.

 

 

And there you go. Consumer price inflation does not include house prices, which shows that these CPI calculations are a joke. So if you're a consumer buying a house, your prices are double what you would have paid 10 years ago, but somehow that doesn't count towards inflation.

 

There's CPI, which is "inflation" and then there's real inflation, as you just demonstrated.

 

Also I took your comment at face value in the original House Price Index, and didn't look at the graph properly.

 

Doing it now, it completely destroys your theory that the assets prices rose in line with the trade surplus. The trade surplus started with the Euro introduction in 2002, yet house prices ramp up massively since 2010. And what happened in 2010? The Euro sovereign crisis, which resulted in the explosion of debt and money "printing".

 

So in summary:

- CPI and inflation calculations are a joke, real asset prices have been increasing, but somehow CPI doesn't take this into account. Yet most people belive it to be "science" and credible numbers, while reports on the ground contradict it.

- You admit the Euro was a terrible mistake for periphery countries, and that rich countries have benefited from it at the expense of poorer countries.

- The Euro was forced down the throat of periphery countries by the EU, as evidenced by their massive tantrums over the UK, Poland and Hungary keeping their currency, and Greece being allowed to cook the books to enter the club with no consequences.

- Yet somehow a more federal EU, with more control over smaller states at the expense of their sovereignty is a good thing?

 

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, evadgib said:

HMG would not have released anything unless it had been updated or there was some other reason to do so.

 

Speeches at different dates. You were wrong.

[Emdog]

"Oh I'm sure the left really love the US, it is well documented that they don't,..."

One of the most ignorant statements I've ever read on TV, and I've been here for a long time.

"The left" are the ones who push USA to live up to it's professed ideals: equality regardless of where you came from or what you look like. Voting is essential right for adult citizens. "Of the people, by the people and for the people". It wasn't the left that decided corporations are people too. Not the left that declared a free press is "the enemy of the people". Left did push for equal rights, civil rights, workers rights.... I could go on and on

I'm left leaning, I love my country, as do my leftist friends. We want the US to be the best it can be, a crowning achievement of the enlightenment. We haven't gotten there yet, but we're trying.

[candide]

58 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

He was trying to get Nato members to pay what the agreed to pay and then refused to. Of course, he was all just hot air and Trump, like on everything else, talked big and carried a twig. But the hysteria in Europe when they were asked to pay their fair share was all "how dare somebody tell us how to uphold our international obligations!"

It was actually a fake issue. To start with, it was not about a direct contribution to NATO, but money spent on each national army. Most importantly, the key issue is not how much European countries are investing, but how this investment is (not) coordinated and optimised as a whole. For example, UK or France alone spend about as much as Russia. The problem is that investments are unnecessarily duplicated in each country. There's also the location issue. Forces are not located where they should be. Ex a tank regiment in Sevilla will not be very useful in case of a blitz invasion by Russia.

[tyga]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

Ah, are you saying that if we don't allow Joe Biden to interfere into another countrys business we won't get a trade deal, there's a word for that.

The issue is to do with Tories trying to tear up yet another of the UK agreements illegally. This one is the Irish Agreement which was settled by all parties with the US having a part in the negotiations. iit is not the US bullying the UK but the UK not upholding its international commitments which is at issue.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, tyga said:

The issue is to do with Tories trying to tear up yet another of the UK agreements illegally. This one is the Irish Agreement which was settled by all parties with the US having a part in the negotiations. iit is not the US bullying the UK but the UK not upholding its international commitments which is at issue.

Always somebody else fault, it has nothing to do with Joe Biden which ever way you want to spin it.

[gamini]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

Ah, are you saying that if we don't allow Joe Biden to interfere into another countrys business we won't get a trade deal, there's a word for that.

The Irish Republic is not solely Britain's business

[evadgib]

40 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Speeches at different dates. You were wrong.

I was indeed; caught out by my own technological gremlins which I have since rectified.

You might like to have this post framed 

Edited November 25, 2020 by evadgib

[vogie]

1 minute ago, gamini said:

The Irish Republic is not solely Britain's business

It is not Bidens business to tell other countries how they should run them, maybe when he gets his own house in order, we may listen, but there again, maybe not.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes you need higher order thinking skills to understand it.

 

Once again totally out of touch with reality. just because you read it, doesn't mean it is true.

 

If you were British and had family and friends who were British or lived in the UK then you would have a better more rounded viewpoint and understanding to argue your point.

 

You go on about your country being pro EU. maybe the tide is changing and this from the left wing rag.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/06/dutch-voters-reject-closer-eu-links-to-ukraine-in-referendum

 

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/68155

 

Anyway your country has referendums and they just get ignored

 

I think you have the wrong stats too bad you cant read Dutch.

 

https://www.europa-nu.nl/id/vh93qqnk8atd/opvattingen_in_nederland_over_europa

 

Dutch positive about EU-membership

70%

72%

77%

78%

 

That is 2015 to 2018

 

Perhaps you should stick to facts and not use Brit tabloids.

 

This is not the same percentage as people who like everything that europe does. Just about the membership. Again a lot think the same as I do good membership but with some bad stuff too.

Edited November 25, 2020 by robblok

[pegman]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

 

He was trying to get Nato members to pay what the agreed to pay and then refused to. Of course, he was all just hot air and Trump, like on everything else, talked big and carried a twig. But the hysteria in Europe when they were asked to pay their fair share was all "how dare somebody tell us how to uphold our international obligations!"

The 2% of GDP is not a contractual obligation but a guideline. Try researching with google rather than by what Trump says.

Edited November 25, 2020 by pegman

[robblok]

People are stating here that I am against US interference. It depends a bit on what point. But the fact that in general I am against it does not make anything I said here any less true. The US supporting the EU weakens the Brit negotiating position. 

 

It does not matter if I like that they put pressure on the UK or not, the fact is that they do and that it affects the Brit position negatively.

 

Personally I did not like the US interference in Dutch drug laws long ago and I after the gulf war based on fake evidence I am not a great supporter of US foreign policy about invading countries.

 

But I am not sure how this has any effect on what i said that this weakens the Brit position. 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is not Bidens business to tell other countries how they should run them, maybe when he gets his own house in order, we may listen, but there again, maybe not.

If you dont listen there will be a stick, (think trade). So it is indeed up to you guys to listen or not. Nationalism or your economy. 

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is not Bidens business to tell other countries how they should run them, maybe when he gets his own house in order, we may listen, but there again, maybe not.

Sure, do what you want. Just realise this will weaken your negotiation position.

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

If you dont listen there will be a stick, (think trade). So it is indeed up to you guys to listen or not. Nationalism or your economy. 

I think you guys are used to another country laying the law down and you have to obey such rules, the UK is proving that it doesn't have to be like that.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes you need higher order thinking skills to understand it.

 

Once again totally out of touch with reality. just because you read it, doesn't mean it is true.

 

If you were British and had family and friends who were British or lived in the UK then you would have a better more rounded viewpoint and understanding to argue your point.

 

You go on about your country being pro EU. maybe the tide is changing and this from the left wing rag.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/06/dutch-voters-reject-closer-eu-links-to-ukraine-in-referendum

 

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/68155

 

Anyway your country has referendums and they just get ignored

 

Was this your nostalgia piece?

The first article you linked to is over 4 years old.

The second is over 3 years old.

How are the anti-EU parties in the EU doing lately?

Edited November 25, 2020 by placeholder

[ShindenGo]

Spoken like a true leader. How amazing and refreshing it is to see American leadership fighting for peace. Not like Trump who sent his nepotist sons to bag money from various countries