Sweden's pandemic experiment ends amid spiking coronavirus cases

[placeholder]

Sweden’s Covid-19 experiment is over.

 

After a late autumn surge in infections led to rising hospitalizations and deaths, the government has abandoned its attempt—unique among Western nations—to combat the pandemic through voluntary measures.

Like other Europeans, Swedes are now heading into the winter facing restrictions ranging from a ban on large gatherings to curbs on alcohol sales and school closures—all aimed at preventing the country’s health system from being swamped by patients and capping what is already among the highest per capita death tolls in the world.

Sweden's pandemic experiment ends amid spiking coronavirus cases | Fox News

[mtls2005]

Does Sweden report any figures?

 

In the usual places I see a bunch of blanks, with most figures remaining constant for a week or so.

 

Found some news articles...

 

 

 

Lockdown finally looms for Sweden as it suffers more than DOUBLE the number of Covid cases per capita than Britain, Germany or Spain

Sweden's infection rate is higher than in Britain, France, Spain, Italy or Germany
Average daily deaths are once again above those in Denmark, Norway or Finland 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9025989/Swedens-Covid-infection-rate-soars-Britain-Germany-Spain.html

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

At least they were free for longer than in other countries.

 

Seems that lockdowns don't work either, as it didn't stop all those other countries getting second wave.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Sweden's infection rate is higher than in Britain, France, Spain, Italy or Germany
Average daily deaths are once again above those in Denmark, Norway or Finland 

Infection rate is not, IMO, the critical factor, but the seriously ill and death rate is. if 90% only had mild symptoms or none, it's not critical, IMO.

If the death rate is below US, Britain, France, Germany they are doing well, IMO.

[cooked]

Everyone who is going to get Covid is going to get covid sooner or later. They will all become 'cases', very few will die. Remember that this was supposed to be about not overloading the health services? I believe that all the emergency hospitals that were built or shipped in initially (UK, USA, China and Russia off hand) have been removed. 

Meanwhile, for some mysterious reason, deaths from 'flu complications have virtually disappeared. 

 

[placeholder]

15 minutes ago, cooked said:

Everyone who is going to get Covid is going to get covid sooner or later. They will all become 'cases', very few will die. Remember that this was supposed to be about not overloading the health services? I believe that all the emergency hospitals that were built or shipped in initially (UK, USA, China and Russia off hand) have been removed. 

Meanwhile, for some mysterious reason, deaths from 'flu complications have virtually disappeared. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Infection rate is not, IMO, the critical factor, but the seriously ill and death rate is. if 90% only had mild symptoms or none, it's not critical, IMO.

If the death rate is below US, Britain, France, Germany they are doing well, IMO.

 

COVID-19 hospitalizations soar in lockdown-free Sweden amid second wave

Coronavirus hospitalizations are surging in lockdown-eschewing Sweden as the country grapples with a second wave of the virus, data shows.

There are currently 1,004 patients being treated for the virus in the Nordic nation’s hospitals — up 60 percent from the previous week’s 627, the Guardian reported.

“We consider the situation extremely serious,” Björn Eriksson, the director of healthcare for the Stockholm region, told state media.

COVID-19 hospitalizations surging in Sweden amid second wave (nypost.com)

 

 

As for the lower incidence of flu...

Decreased Influenza Activity During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, Australia, Chile, and South Africa, 2020

After recognition of widespread community transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), by mid- to late February 2020, indicators of influenza activity began to decline in the Northern Hemisphere. These changes were attributed to both artifactual changes related to declines in routine health seeking for respiratory illness as well as real changes in influenza virus circulation because of widespread implementation of measures to mitigate transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Data from clinical laboratories in the United States indicated a 61% decrease in the number of specimens submitted (from a median of 49,696 per week during September 29, 2019–February 29, 2020, to 19,537 during March 1–May 16, 2020) and a 98% decrease in influenza activity as measured by percentage of submitted specimens testing positive (from a median of 19.34% to 0.33%).

Decreased Influenza Activity During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, Australia, Chile, and South Africa, 2020 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

[johng]

Just a thought but isn't it winter in Sweden now ?  isn't that normally the time when hospitals are stretched to their limits ?

[rabas]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

Meanwhile, for some mysterious reason, deaths from 'flu complications have virtually disappeared.

Flu itself is way down worldwide. Lockdowns, masks, distancing, hand washing, home schooling, general caution, zinc!  Now, if all that caution greatly reduced the flu, just imagine what would happen with highly infectious COVID-19 without it? 

 

From WHO

• Globally, despite continued or even increased testing for influenza in some countries, influenza activity remained at lower levels than expected for this time of the year.
• Worldwide, of the very low numbers of detections reported, seasonal influenza A(H3N2) viruses accounted for the majority of detections.

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

Flu itself is way down worldwide. Lockdowns, masks, distancing, hand washing, home schooling, general caution, zinc!  Now, if all that caution greatly reduced the flu, just imagine what would happen with highly infectious COVID-19 without it? 

 

From WHO

• Globally, despite continued or even increased testing for influenza in some countries, influenza activity remained at lower levels than expected for this time of the year.
• Worldwide, of the very low numbers of detections reported, seasonal influenza A(H3N2) viruses accounted for the majority of detections.

 

I think lower flu incidence is also related to 'viral interference'.  This is the basic idea that one dominant virus crowds out others. Viruses have to compete with each other for the spoils just as athletes do.  Yes, you are also right about social distancing, etc.  In successfully dealing with one virus we may also receive a general immunity boost as well.  As you say, we are all looking after ourselves better.  I've had far fewer infections this year, because I haven't been mixing so much. Maybe we'll all learn a lesson from this pandemic-  I mean I for one have had a few truly rotten respiratory infections in my life.  Some people really don't appreciate that even the common cold is a definite disease event, leading them to be cavalier about their own and other peoples' health.

[teacherclaire]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Does Sweden report any figures?

 

In the usual places I see a bunch of blanks, with most figures remaining constant for a week or so.

 

Found some news articles...

 

 

 

Lockdown finally looms for Sweden as it suffers more than DOUBLE the number of Covid cases per capita than Britain, Germany or Spain

Sweden's infection rate is higher than in Britain, France, Spain, Italy or Germany
Average daily deaths are once again above those in Denmark, Norway or Finland 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9025989/Swedens-Covid-infection-rate-soars-Britain-Germany-Spain.html

 

 

 

   Any involvement with China would only be coincidental.  

[teacherclaire]

5 hours ago, johng said:

Just a thought but isn't it winter in Sweden now ?  isn't that normally the time when hospitals are stretched to their limits ?

 Plenty of ordinary flues,  car accidents, broken bones, etc. And now also broken dreams. 

 

Many thanks to China. Something doesn't add up here IMO.

Edited December 8, 2020 by teacherclaire

[teacherclaire]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I think lower flu incidence is also related to 'viral interference'.  This is the basic idea that one dominant virus crowds out others. Viruses have to compete with each other for the spoils just as athletes do.  Yes, you are also right about social distancing, etc.  In successfully dealing with one virus we may also receive a general immunity boost as well.  As you say, we are all looking after ourselves better.  I've had far fewer infections this year, because I haven't been mixing so much. Maybe we'll all learn a lesson from this pandemic-  I mean I for one have had a few truly rotten respiratory infections in my life.  Some people really don't appreciate that even the common cold is a definite disease event, leading them to be cavalier about their own and other peoples' health.

 

    Nature fights back? The environment can recover, which is ironically great. 

 

All the endangered and extinct animals, including everything we have done to the environment, are now fighting back.  

 

All the stinky planes and trains, the bushfires, the use of too much plastic, power plants instead of solar energy,  now slowed down, can only be good. 

 

We are destroying many rainforests to have cheap gasoline where millions of other living things get killed, and water is so polluted that it's also affecting the ground and drink water. 

Something similar had to happen for some greedy freaks to wake up to realize that you can't eat money. 

 

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

There are currently 1,004 patients being treated for the virus in the Nordic nation’s hospitals — up 60 percent from the previous week’s 627, the Guardian reported.

 

1,000 Covid hospitalizations really isn't that bad. If scaled up, it would be the equivalent of 30K in the US and they are having 100K+ hospitalizations at the moment.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, johng said:

Just a thought but isn't it winter in Sweden now ?  isn't that normally the time when hospitals are stretched to their limits ?

Why would you think that Sweden, given its advanced health care system, would regularly jeopardize its citizens by having barely enough capacity to cope with the usually predictable rise in illness?

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

1,000 Covid hospitalizations really isn't that bad. If scaled up, it would be the equivalent of 30K in the US and they are having 100K+ hospitalizations at the moment.

True. But that article was dated Nov 12. I couldn't one with more recent numbers. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by placeholder

[gunderhill]

Whether right or wrong its  good  that countries  have tried  different approaches to this to see if  it may work. 

In a few  years  when the full information comes out then you can see what did work that will include  the climate of various countries, health of  population, weight, health service provision,  poor  v  rich countries etc etc.

On the other hand  like the 1918 flu pandemic it may all be forgotten.

[placeholder]

 

 

On 12/9/2020 at 6:04 AM, gunderhill said:

Whether right or wrong its  good  that countries  have tried  different approaches to this to see if  it may work. 

In a few  years  when the full information comes out then you can see what did work that will include  the climate of various countries, health of  population, weight, health service provision,  poor  v  rich countries etc etc.

On the other hand  like the 1918 flu pandemic it may all be forgotten.

 

Maybe not.

 

'We need help': Sweden's capital sounds the alarm as its hospitals fill with coronavirus patients

Sweden's coronavirus surge causes alarm at capital's hospitals - Business Insider

 

Stockholm, Sweden's Largest City, Has Only Seven ICU Beds Free Amid COVID Surge

Stockholm, Sweden's Largest City, Has Only Seven ICU Beds Free Amid COVID Surge (newsweek.com)

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/9/2020 at 11:25 AM, placeholder said:

Why would you think that Sweden, given its advanced health care system, would regularly jeopardize its citizens by having barely enough capacity to cope with the usually predictable rise in illness?

Perhaps because excess capacity is very expensive and perhaps they can't get enough staff anyway. Nursing is so unpopular now that western countries have to import nurses from countries like the Phillipines.

[Airalee]

So much for that “lag time” theory postulated a few weeks ago.   Cases up and up but the percentage of fatalities down and down.

 

Looks promising.

 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

20 minutes ago, Airalee said:

So much for that “lag time” theory postulated a few weeks ago.   Cases up and up but the percentage of fatalities down and down.

 

Looks promising.

 

 

 

 

Time to test placeholder's comment

As of December 11:

December 1: 32

December 2: 33

December 3: 29

December 4: 26

December 5: 14

December 6: 36

December 7: 7

December 8: 14

December 9: 4

December 10: 21

December 11: N/A

 

Lets check the numbers in a weeks times again.

 

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Time to test placeholder's comment

As of December 11:

December 1: 32

December 2: 33

December 3: 29

December 4: 26

December 5: 14

December 6: 36

December 7: 7

December 8: 14

December 9: 4

December 10: 21

December 11: N/A

 

Lets check the numbers in a weeks times again.

 

 

I should have been doing that myself. Actually, from what I've observed is that the numbers keep on rising fpr more than 10 days. As for the current situation, it seems virtually impossible that deaths won't keep on going up given the continual increase in hospitalizations during this 2nd wave.

[Bluetongue]

 

There is a lot of commentary about Sweden as any reader will know. Why? Because they had a different approach to the mainstream narrative. So those in the health and government establishment and the media including social, who back the mainstream narrative 100% are keen, some might say desperate, that Sweden should fail as further evidence that they were correct. With the benefit of hindsight did Sweden make mistakes, sure, same as many other countries have done, most notably in Sweden's case failure to foresee the risk to and thus protect care homes in the early days of the pandemic, meaning high death numbers. As well as the herd immunity thing which whether it is possible or not would take way too long. I think there's an element of schadenfreude in this topic anyway, it had mostly been well covered on previous topics, why open it up again?

 

Just to put some perspective to it all, according to Worldometer Sweden is 24th in infections per 100k and 22nd in death per 100k. Not great but there are many first world countries ahead of them in both including the US, Belgium and Spain, and some notables in the death column include the UK and Italy. The other common criticism is comparison to the other Scnadinavian nations. To this I would say, firstly to properly make such comparisons, you should be in possession of all the data, for instance population distribution, age and ethnic makeup, previous years figures to name a few. Any supposition by us is just a rank guess by amateurs I'm afraid. But Sweden is a larger country, with a more concentrated population in 3 urban centres, has a MRT in Stockholm, a higher proportion of ethnic populations a very low death rate amongst the elderly last year, leading to the dry tinder effect and a decentralised and cumbersome health system for a start.

 

Look I'm sure there is a lot more data and information to be analysed as all countries go through some process of review, although in Australia I note there seems to be no appetite for that, because, you know it's all over now blah blah. Anyway think its past time to be critical of what's occurred until appropriate review takes place. It is now time to hope for best practice for the next phase of the pandemic, which isn't looking too good in my opinion.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Bluetongue

[placeholder]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:44 AM, Airalee said:

So much for that “lag time” theory postulated a few weeks ago.   Cases up and up but the percentage of fatalities down and down.

 

Looks promising.

 

 

 

The timelag "theory" as you style it has nothing to do with the percentage of deaths of hospitalized patients. It has to do with how long it takes to report deaths for specific days. As I recall at the time you were discounting the surge, the day with the highest deaths was 31 and all the following days were less. This led you to infer that deaths were in a decline. Now, from Nov 14 to Dec 6 every day has more deaths than than 31. And here's a post of yours from another thread. How do those woods look now?

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

There's lots more comments from you in a similar vein in that thread. Here's one particularly choice one:

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - Page 2 - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

 

[placeholder]

On 12/11/2020 at 9:44 AM, Airalee said:

So much for that “lag time” theory postulated a few weeks ago.   Cases up and up but the percentage of fatalities down and down.

 

Looks promising.

 

 

 

 

Here's the daily deaths from about a month ago.

Look at the overlapping dates in November. Notice any changes?

[oldhippy]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:59 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps because excess capacity is very expensive and perhaps they can't get enough staff anyway. Nursing is so unpopular now that western countries have to import nurses from countries like the Phillipines.

I hear that the UK imports their nurses from Rumania. Until 1 january, that is.

Good for the Rumanian health system after 1 january.

[Airalee]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

The timelag "theory" as you style it has nothing to do with the percentage of deaths of hospitalized patients. It has to do with how long it takes to report deaths for specific days. As I recall at the time you were discounting the surge, the day with the highest deaths was 31 and all the following days were less. This led you to infer that deaths were in a decline. Now, from Nov 14 to Dec 6 every day has more deaths than than 31. And here's a post of yours from another thread. How do those woods look now?

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

There's lots more comments from you in a similar vein in that thread. Here's one particularly choice one:

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - Page 2 - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

 

Those woods still look ok.  As I said over and over, but you continually chose to ignore it, the percentage of people dying compared to the numbers of cases is much better than before.  That is a good thing.  Why you constantly pick every end of the world news article (that fits your bias) in order to support your theories (which the statistics aren’t showing) is baffling.  Why so negative?  
 

Next time, post both charts...cases and deaths. 

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Airalee said:

Those woods still look ok.  As I said over and over, but you continually chose to ignore it, the percentage of people dying compared to the numbers of cases is much better than before.  That is a good thing.  Why you constantly pick every end of the world news article (that fits your bias) in order to support your theories (which the statistics aren’t showing) is baffling.  Why so negative?  
 

Next time, post both charts...cases and deaths. 

I don't ignore the percentage of people dying. Care has gotten better. But on the other hand I haven't posted anything like the nasty dishonest piece of nonsense that you did. Namely

Here's the link to it: Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - Page 2 - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

[Lacessit]

On 12/8/2020 at 9:53 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

At least they were free for longer than in other countries.

 

Seems that lockdowns don't work either, as it didn't stop all those other countries getting second wave.

Really. You must tell the Australian and New Zealand governments, they may be interested in your opinion.

[Airalee]

38 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I don't ignore the percentage of people dying. Care has gotten better. But on the other hand I haven't posted anything like the nasty dishonest piece of nonsense that you did. Namely

Here's the link to it: Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country - Page 2 - COVID-19: Coronavirus forum - Thailand Visa Forum by Thai Visa | The Nation

Nothing nasty or dishonest about it at all.  Many (most?) people have no symptoms, fewer people have severe symptoms...many are somewhere in the middle.  With more cases, but fewer people dying (as a percentage of new cases...which did skyrocket immensely compared to deaths) Well...I would posit that many of those people are sent home with some Benadryl or something of the sort.

 

“With mild COVID-19, which happens in at least 80% of people, symptoms can include  congestion or a runny nose.”

https://www.webmd.com/lung/qa/is-my-runny-nose-coronavirus-or-a-cold

 

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

Some people prefer a country without curfews, mandatory facemask wearing, and government closures of your business. The law have to be changed if the government want to close down the country and I don't think the population will accept it.  Sweden was ranked Number one in the world for personal freedom last year.