so BJ's "offer" was all smoke and mirrors 

 

Why am I not surprised?

13 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

so BJ's "offer" was all smoke and mirrors 

 

Why am I not surprised?

We have seen the EU do the same many times I think the term is called Window dressing

If you ever watch Yes Minister with Sir Humphrey Appleby he was a master at window dressing

10 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Is there anything wrong with smiling/laughing/smirking ?

Is it against any rules or laws or etiquette ?

Have you seen Patel's smirk?

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Funny how there are so many Brexiters who  don't want UK to remain in EU but who didn't want want to remain in the UK themselves

People have their reasons for living abroad. Nothing to do with Remain or Leave. Many people from the EU live abroad, probably more than UK citizens. Why if the EU is so good? A rather pointless question by the above poster. 

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

We have seen the EU do the same many times I think the term is called Window dressing

If you ever watch Yes Minister with Sir Humphrey Appleby he was a master at window dressing

I know Yes Minister by reputation ????

 

 

now how in the world could Boris think he would fool us? This imbecile presented a worse offer

Quote

The key sticking point remains fishing rights: The EU presented on Friday what it described as a "last possible offer," under which the bloc would accept a 25 percent cut in the share of fish caught by EU vessels in U.K. waters. London followed up with a counter-offer over the weekend, proposing a 35 percent cut — but Barnier told ambassadors that offer is actually worse because it does not include all species, so the overall cut would be even higher, diplomats said. Another matter of fierce dispute between London and Brussels is how many years it would take before the cuts enter into force.

https://www.politico.eu/article/scrooged-brexit-talks-risk-dragging-beyond-christmas-as-no-deal-looms/

11 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

You’ve bored the bejesus out of us once or twice yes with endless fish rants  (0.1% gdp) but then you don’t have a lot else to justify your stupidity I guess . 

You are telling lies.....You maybe bored, so don't talk for others....Thank you...

7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

so BJ's "offer" was all smoke and mirrors 

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

This concession (that Remainers instantly jumped on as BJ 'folding') was reported by The Guardian, not Johnson himself. So perhaps you should be questioning the accuracy of their reporting, which as usual was biased and dire.

 

The Guardian misreports. Remainers accuse Johnson of folding.

Barnier clears up the matter. Remainers accuse Johnson of smoke and mirrors.

 

You guys are hilarious ????.

 

Why should we give up our territorial waters to the very people we are trying to get away from? Leave is leave and take everything that belongs to us with us. The EU is worse than a woman going through a divorce. 

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

So the earlier reports of the UK caving in to EU demands were incorrect

It seems more and more that the E.U. will only accept their own conditions, and are prepared for a loose-loose situation.

 

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

This concession (that Remainers instantly jumped on as BJ 'folding') was reported by The Guardian, not Johnson himself. So perhaps you should be questioning the accuracy of their reporting, which as usual was biased and dire.

 

The Guardian misreports. Remainers accuse Johnson of folding.

Barnier clears up the matter. Remainers accuse Johnson of smoke and mirrors.

 

You guys are hilarious ????.

 

They all seem to read the same rag, because they write what they want to hear, so funny that they haven't fallen in yet that others read the real news...????....

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It seems more and more that the E.U. will only accept their own conditions, and are prepared for a loose-loose situation.

 

Doesn't sound much like best endeavors.

 

Doesn't sound much like good faith.

 

1 minute ago, transam said:

that others read the real news..

The sad fact is that for the bigots(left & right) the truth is only their own belief/view of a situation. 

7 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

The sad fact is that for the bigots(left & right) the truth is only their own belief/view of a situation. 

My fact is, I voted to leave the EU, and we left the EU, also fact, but the rags have to write their stuff to make ends meet and keep the losers fed to carry on stomping and dribbling, fact..????

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Doesn't sound much like best endeavors.

 

Doesn't sound much like good faith.

 

This is nice written theory.

In politics there is not such thing.

However usually one party will claim they are handling in good faith, that their propositions are fair, but that the others are unfair and present unacceptable propositions.

The base of the parties will generally believe it.

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

This is nice written theory.

In politics there is not such thing.

However usually one party will claim they are handling in good faith, that their propositions are fair, but that the others are unfair and present unacceptable propositions.

The base of the parties will generally believe it.

Let's be clear. The EU's demands are completely unprecedented in the framework of an FTA. No other country has ever requested, let alone agreed to such terms as part of an FTA.

 

So spare me the 'perspective' line.

 

Hopefully we will end up in a situation where the courts decide whether the EU negotiated in good faith after we've ripped up this document after a WTO exit. Given your previous post, you don't appear to think they did either.

 

1 minute ago, transam said:

My fact is, I voted to leave the EU, and we left the EU, also fact, but the rags have to write their stuff to make ends meet and keep the losers fed to carry on stomping and dribbling, fact..????

A fact is that nobody discuss the result of the referendum.

Another fact is, that the looser of the referendum will not join at once/without question, the winning team, as long they are convinced Brexit is a bad thing for the U.K..

It may change when Brexit will prove, starting next year, with concrete  facts, that they were wrong.

9 hours ago, Loiner said:

Toy town life full of regulations and overcrowded? Well the EU certainly increased your regulation and, sometime after you left, the overcrowding too. 

 

We already trade with China and the US. If we don’t like the deals offered we carry on WTO or other deals. 

 

I think it is up to 60 deals now. Where do you get 450 others from?

Apologies Loiner, it's 692 worldwide agreements that will cease to be on January 1st, deal or no deal, not 450.

This information is from a video by Marc Wesselin called ' These 9 things will happen when Hard Brexit Comes'.

47 minutes ago, transam said:

You are telling lies.....You maybe bored, so don't talk for others....Thank you...

So when you say ‘we’ voted to leave .....

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

• Let's be clear. The EU's demands are completely unprecedented in the framework of an FTA. No other country has ever requested, let alone agreed to such terms as part of an FTA.

Wrong.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2020-001203_EN.html

12 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  IMO , Brexit will be beneficial to the UK .

Time will tell though .

The younger generation will not have to compete with the never ending cheap workers from the EU .

Hopefully the younger generation will be able to earn a decent living wage in the future

You old uns just can’t help yourselves. You worry about what time you’ve got left and let them make decisions on their futures.
 

The younger generations voted overwhelmingly remain but were undone by old people with ill educated grudges who will be gone soon.  It should be them worrying about their future not you. 
Their votes should tell you you have shafted them. 

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Wrong.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2020-001203_EN.html

Nice try.

 

Unfortunately I read it and there is nothing in there about access to fishing waters.

1 minute ago, Bruntoid said:

You old uns just can’t help yourselves. You worry about what time you’ve got left and let them make decisions on their futures.
 

The younger generations voted overwhelmingly remain but were undone by old people with ill educated grudges who will be gone soon.  It should be them worrying about their future not you. 
Their votes should tell you you have shafted them. 

 

   May I ask how old you are ?

You keep calling me "old"

What is your age ?

 

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

You may not have noticed previous requests for me to do Remainers’ homework for them, but just for you: 

 

Go find your own positive projections. You could even learn something. 

So nothing then ? ????

 

If you had even the slightest snippet of a positive projection you would be bleating about it every other post (between each fish rant I would guess) 

 

Leave is all about hoping it will be ok - always has been because you have absolutely nothing to counter that! 

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Let's be clear. The EU's demands are completely unprecedented in the framework of an FTA. No other country has ever requested, let alone agreed to such terms as part of an FTA.

 

No other country has ever left the E.U., the E.U. is now showing that they will decide at what conditions, a country leaving the Union, will again be able to do business with them.

 

Leaving to the country which left, the full faculty to accept these conditions, or not.

 

Wonder which court will be prepared to ordeal about the good faith, or not, from a country.

 

 

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

Too late for anybody to stay, old or young. We are already out. 

You really think that won’t be reversed in some form ? Trading works better in blocs for a myriad of reasons above a leavers intellectual absorption levels.
 

Have you never thought wow why are there so many trading blocs around the globe ? Why do you think that is ? Just for a laugh right ? 

 

Brexit will be reversed in one form or another - guaranteed. 
 

 

12 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

So when you say ‘we’ voted to leave .....

Where did I say "we"......But even if I have, I think even a grouse would know who the leavers are on this topic...????

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   May I ask how old you are ?

You keep calling me "old"

What is your age ?

 

I wasn’t calling YOU old, if I did that’s a bit rude, but the general age of your average leaver (which is old) - 

 

With a fair wind I’m probably still in the first half ! 
 

You ? 

1 minute ago, Bruntoid said:

I wasn’t calling YOU old, if I did that’s a bit rude, but the general age of your average leaver (which is old) - 

 

With a fair wind I’m probably still in the first half ! 
 

You ? 

 

  I wasnt even conceived when England won the World cup in 1966 

Was you ?

Just now, transam said:

Where did I say "we"......But even if I have, I think even a grouse would know who the leavers are on this topic...????

You either did or you didn’t. Yet again non-sensical. Consistent at least. 

4 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

You old uns just can’t help yourselves. You worry about what time you’ve got left and let them make decisions on their futures.
 

The younger generations voted overwhelmingly remain but were undone by old people with ill educated grudges who will be gone soon.  It should be them worrying about their future not you. 
Their votes should tell you you have shafted them. 

 

You reminded me of that BBC show where they got a load of young people in the audience expecting them to be Pro EU and most of them supported Leave. Awkward to say the least ????.

 

Of course the young have every right to vote (unlike many Remainers I believe in Democracy), but unfortunately the younger generations are often pretty clueless about the big issues.

 

For example, as a 'right on' Uni student I voted Labour in my early 20's and then watched on in horror as Blair invaded Iraq with Bush on lies about WMD, killing hundreds of thousands of people and leading to decades of terrorism. I am now much better informed of the ills of the Labour party such as rampant antisemitism and would never vote for them again, no matter how many taxpayer funded freebies they tried to bribe me with.

 

Anyway, it was a UK wide vote and we voted to leave. In fact, only 34% voted to Remain in the EU. Says a lot about the popularity of that corrupt protectionist racket inhabiting the dark corridors of Brussels.