1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

 

I, on the other hand, have the opposite expectation.  Following the theory of Balint Magyar, Trump's whole political career up to the election this year represents an "autocratic attempt," i.e. an attack on the institutions and norms of democracy.  The post-election denial of the electoral results was Trump's attempt at an "autocratic breakthrough," which would have destroyed the democratic process probably irretrievably.

 

 

In surveying the current wreckage of the U.S. political landscape wrought by Trump and Co., I'm afraid I have to side with your rather pessimistic, worrisome outlook as opposed to Earl's more optimistic one.

 

Yes, vanquishing Trump for the time being is a cause for some celebration and relief. But he and the people he has inspired aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  And  as long as the current vast political manic delusion on their part continues, they're a virus that's continuing to infect U.S. democratic institutions.

 

25 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Well i agtee. If repubs sign on to lawsuits that the election was a fraud then they should stand down. Thats if they believe it.

They don't have to believe it. 

We are now at a point in U.S. history when one of the two major parties stands firmly for autocracy and against democracy. This is a dark foreboding. The lines have been crossed already. Unless there is a major reform either via legislation and/or a constitutional amendment (not at all likely), the U.S.A. is heading towards an authoritarian state. They won't succeed this time in overturning a democratic election but at a later time when it is closer, there will be nothing to stop them. Mr. Trump has indeed been a consequential president. In the most anti-democracy ways imaginable. 

 

Opinion | Republicans faced a simple choice: For or against democracy. - The Washington Post

 

Quote

Republicans faced a simple choice: For or against democracy.

HOUSE REPUBLICANS have faced what amounts to a choice between standing for or against democracy: whether to sign on to Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton’s delusional lawsuit to overturn the presidential election. A large majority of them failed the test. More House Republicans, including Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), on Friday signed an amicus brief supporting Mr. Paxton, just hours before the Supreme Court unceremoniously rejected the suit.

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Jingthing

11 hours ago, owl sees all said:

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

In this case The Fat Lady got signed by Capital Records, went triple platinum in one week when she dropped her single "Trump Lost The Election", went on a World Tour where Beyonce, Lady Gaga, The Rolling Stones, Elton John and Elvis (back from the dead for a special performance) all opened for her,  won Grammies for Best New Artist, Single of The Year, Record of the Year and Performer of the year,  Won the Tony for her history making performance in the musical "Alternate Facts Equal NonZero Numbers", received a knighthood from The Queen Of England, won The Nobel Peace Prize, had an audience with the Pope where he asked her for her blessing and had a recording of her voice shot into space in hopes other alien civilizations can bask in her glory.

 

In other words....she is singing.

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Tie Dye Samurai

Well that didn’t take long, ‘The Proud Boys’ are out on the streets of DC, mincing around the Supreme Court with a bunch of religious types who are blowing horns in the hope of ‘bringing down the walls’ (it’s apparently a thing).

 

That’s not even the craziest bit, it gets way better.

 

’The Proud Boys’ are getting all flapped out and emotional, they are now chanting their new bonding mantra ... wait for it...’Destroy the GOP’.

 

Well yeh!

 

Give it your best shot.

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Proud Boys’ are getting all flapped out and emotional, they are now chanting their new bonding mantra ... wait for it...’Destroy the GOP’.

 

In terms of destroying, I believe Trump and Co. have long beat the Proud Boys in destroying whatever the pre-Trump modern GOP used to stand for. The current GOP under Trump bears little resemblance to even its recent past.

 

So I guess the question arises, just who in the GOP do the Proud Boys and such actually want to destroy now? The few remaining rational thinkers and reality recognizers who aren't fully onboard the Trump train?

 

Michael Flynn Says Trump Will Remain President in First Public Remarks Since Pardon

Former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn on Saturday expressed confidence that President Donald Trump will serve a second consecutive term in his first public remarks since his presidential pardon...

 

"The courts do not decide who the next president of the United States will be," Flynn told a crowd of protesters carrying patriotic flags. "We the people decide."

https://www.newsweek.com/michael-flynn-says-trump-will-remain-president-first-public-remarks-since-pardon-1554374

 

The courts actually agree with the big dummy. As they have repeatedly explained, how the people do it is called voting.

7 hours ago, J Town said:

 

Doesn't this seem like Tea Party version 2?

Indeed.  Back then they'd follow any moron who came up with the bombast, now the have a leader, icon, and catch phrase.  But otherwise it's the same people, and just as stupid.  Vehemently opposed to Obamacare, but they like the Affordable Care Act.

 

And I do think these legislators who fell in with Paxton should be taken to task.  That state that is known for it's excessive sense of pride has disgraced the US.  Secession?  Bye-bye!

And then there is Kevin McCarthy.  Remember when he was supposed to succeed Paul Ryan as Speaker but they realized he was too stupid?  

 

BTW, Pompeo came out that nonsense, and made it known to all in his home state of Kansas that he was aiming for the presidency.  Let's see how all of that [waste product] on his nose washes off.

 

 

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

"The courts do not decide who the next president of the United States will be," Flynn told a crowd of protesters carrying patriotic flags. "We the people decide."

 

Then I guess someone should inform Trump and Co. of Flynn's views. Because they clearly haven't gotten the message still that it's the people (the voters) who did and have decided in favor of Biden.

 

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Then I guess someone should inform Trump and Co. of Flynn's views. Because they clearly haven't gotten the message still that it's the people (the voters) who did and have decided in favor of Biden.

 

I see Flynn's comments as a indication that violence from the people will follow.

17 hours ago, J Town said:

On a similar note, over the last two hours only one little blip about the outgoing guy and how he's lost. He's no longer newsworthy.

I like how everyone just ignored his executive order trying to hoard vaccines going to other countries to try cover for the fact he didn't order more when he had the chance in July.  As I understand it, the executive order is completely unenforceable anyways.

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by shdmn

On 12/12/2020 at 11:34 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s deal with today’s reality, Trump has lost the election, he’s 39 days away from losing control of the DoJ and his presidential immunity.

 

The lid is about to come off every crime Trump and his administration have been working so hard to hide.

Indeed, he does seem to have lost the election, but you guys just can't stop talking about him. In my opinion you'll still be attacking him in 4 years time because you just can't get him out of your heads.

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

We are now at a point in U.S. history when one of the two major parties stands firmly for autocracy and against democracy.

I agree, but not in which party you think stands for autocracy.

IMO, 70+ million Americans looked at what the Democrats/ far left are offering and rejected it 100%. Why else would they vote for someone that they have been informed for 4 years is a "very bad man"? Seems they'd rather have a very bad man than Biden/ Harris.

 

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, he does seem to have lost the election, but you guys just can't stop talking about him. In my opinion you'll still be attacking him in 4 years time because you just can't get him out of your heads.

ONCE he's left office, he'll be like fish left out of the fridge - rancid, stanky, placed in the rubbish and forgotten once the stench has dissipated.

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In terms of destroying, I believe Trump and Co. have long beat the Proud Boys in destroying whatever the pre-Trump modern GOP used to stand for. The current GOP under Trump bears little resemblance to even its recent past.

 

So I guess the question arises, just who in the GOP do the Proud Boys and such actually want to destroy now? The few remaining rational thinkers and reality recognizers who aren't fully onboard the Trump train?

 

The Republican Party has been the party of the rich since the second half of the nineteenth century, although they didn't turn against the civil rights movement until 1964.  They never "stood for" any progressive program.  

 

The current decisive turn toward minority rule based on gerrymandering, voter suppression, politicization of impeachment, etc. began with Gingrich and is now moving toward street violence a la 30's fascism.

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, he does seem to have lost the election, but you guys just can't stop talking about him. In my opinion you'll still be attacking him in 4 years time because you just can't get him out of your heads.

trump will never shut up after leaving Office and will forever be whining and repeating nonsensical grievances to keep his base blinded to reality. Equally trump world will keep on echoing trump BS, as we have seen on this forum and never shut up.

Just now, simple1 said:

trump will never shut up after leaving Office and will forever be whining and repeating nonsensical grievances to keep his base blinded to reality. Equally trump world will keep on echoing trump BS, as we have seen on this forum and never shut up.

I have to agree with your well thought out response, and I look forward to reading all the usual rational and constructive posts in response to everything he utters.

15 minutes ago, J Town said:

ONCE he's left office, he'll be like fish left out of the fridge - rancid, stanky, placed in the rubbish and forgotten once the stench has dissipated.

Golly, I hope not, Mr Pom, my dog, would probably bring him home!

Edited December 14, 20205 yr by herfiehandbag

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have to agree with your well thought out response, and I look forward to reading all the usual rational and constructive posts in response to everything he utters.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. However, again as proven on this forum, rational responses to trump disinformation and outright lies are met with denial, deflection and irrationality by his supporters. Sadly I do not foresee any change in behaviour by trump supporters. 

Edited December 14, 20205 yr by simple1

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Again as proven on this forum, rational responses to trump disinformation and outright lies are met with denial, deflection and irrationality by his supporters. Sadly I do not foresee any change in behaviour by trump supporters. 

I agree 100%. You are spot on correct as usual.

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree, but not in which party you think stands for autocracy.

IMO, 70+ million Americans looked at what the Democrats/ far left are offering and rejected it 100%. Why else would they vote for someone that they have been informed for 4 years is a "very bad man"? Seems they'd rather have a very bad man than Biden/ Harris.

 

And 80+ million thought trump was moron and a terrible president that the vote count broke records to vote against him.

 

Hence, hes out.

2 minutes ago, Sujo said:

And 80+ million thought trump was moron and a terrible president that the vote count broke records to vote against him.

 

Hence, hes out.

I agree that he's out. How good of you to point out his flaws that I was blind to previously.

Edited December 14, 20205 yr by thaibeachlovers

15 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have to agree with your well thought out response, and I look forward to reading all the usual rational and constructive posts in response to everything he utters.

Not surprising you agree. After all, you have been claiming that CNN and the like will never stop covering Trump and that he will be a major media presence. 

On 12/14/2020 at 7:38 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, he does seem to have lost the election, but you guys just can't stop talking about him. In my opinion you'll still be attacking him in 4 years time because you just can't get him out of your heads.

It might have something to do with Trump and his most recent failure being the topic of discussion in this thread.

 

But I know, you really would prefer if we didn’t keep talking about his failures.

 

Don’t worry, starting soon after Trump leaves office we’ll be talking about his bankruptcy and criminal prosecutions.

 

Edited December 15, 20205 yr by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/11/26/the-end-of-the-embarrassment?utm_campaign=editorial-social&utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1efRW36LrkT0ZtzwCaesiZqKL5A4ldvrFtC9YlNj28Svb0RqZbqg3sdzg

The end of the embarrassment

The assumption that Republicans will remain in thrall to Donald Trump could be misplaced

There is a reason why Grover Cleveland, in 1892, is the only one-term president to have been given another crack of the whip by his party. Voters want winners.

Once the smoke of the 2020 battle has cleared, many of his supporters may see him as he is: a loser whose deranged loss-denialism encapsulates why he ran behind down-ballot Republicans all across the country.

On 12/14/2020 at 9:43 AM, Jeffr2 said:

<snip>

Once the smoke of the 2020 battle has cleared, many of his supporters may see him as he is: a loser whose deranged loss-denialism encapsulates why he ran behind down-ballot Republicans all across the country.

Without the protections afforded him as president, the exposure will be MOST illuminating. All the lies, the deceit, the cover-ups will be there for all to see. I believe the revelation of the identity of "individual 1" in itself will show what ... what traitorous behavior he exhibited while abusing the oval office.

Edited December 15, 20205 yr by onthedarkside
trolling name calling removed

Come 20 January cognitive dissonance will rein supreme among much of 45's base, including his proud Incels boys and his so-called evangelicals.

 

The proud boy element, not particularly bright, will finally begin to see him for the loser he is. They seemed to have missed his 6 bankruptcies and 56 failed businesses, and somehow assumed he was 'successful', confusing a $412 million inheritance and $200,000/month allowance from age 3 until his father died in the early 1990s (per his niece Mary) with some sort of business acumen. The fact is---toss in the tax returns obtained by NYT that showed 45 was the nation's largest loser for a ten year period---until his game show, he was the epitome of neer-do-well, silver spoon  in mouth failure. This element of his base thinks he somehow can pull off an election victory, and when President Biden is sworn in, 45 will be revealed again as a loser, and a whining crybaby loser at that. The proud boys might finally catch on, though they may lack the brain power to make that connection.

 

The evangelicals had this absurd belief that 45 was some heaven sent neo messiah.  Forget the fact few deities of any faith would choose as their messiah a serial philandering, pathologically lying, willfully ignorant, self-absorbed Narcissistic clown, but given that he lost, these folks will have to consider that maybe their deity doesn't really like him. They might be forced to remember the words of Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, who answered when asked if 'god is on our side' replied, "I'm more concerned that we're on god's side'.

1 hour ago, J Town said:

ONCE he's left office, he'll be like fish left out of the fridge - rancid, stanky, placed in the rubbish and forgotten once the stench has dissipated.

That's a good analogy.  A lot of it depends on how the press covers him.  I'm sure certain right wing media will still give him a big voice...mostly for their own benefit of ratings.  But once it becomes apparent that he's irrelevant, the legitimate press will abandon him.  Trump had real power and celebrity power.  Once the real power (of the presidency) is gone, what's left will be celebrity power that has a very short shelf-life.  Just give it a year and Trump will become a sad, pathetic figure.  And I'm not even including all the civil/criminal allegations he'll be facing. 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree, but not in which party you think stands for autocracy.

IMO, 70+ million Americans looked at what the Democrats/ far left are offering and rejected it 100%. Why else would they vote for someone that they have been informed for 4 years is a "very bad man"? Seems they'd rather have a very bad man than Biden/ Harris.

 

Its called an election. 

Numbers are involved. 

President elect Biden got 7 million more votes than exiting Mr.Trump. 

Of course the election is actually decided based on electoral votes. 

 

Biden 306

Mr. Trump 232

 

Do the math.

Only an authoritarian movement would try to overturn any election much less a definitively won one by such as that.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I agree that he's out. How good of you to point out his flaws that I was blind to previously.

Yes you did fail to recognize them, even though you were not a trump supporter.

18 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Come 20 January cognitive dissonance will rein supreme among much of 45's base, including his proud Incels boys and his so-called evangelicals.

 

The proud boy element, not particularly bright, will finally begin to see him for the loser he is. They seemed to have missed his 6 bankruptcies and 56 failed businesses, and somehow assumed he was 'successful', confusing a $412 million inheritance and $200,000/month allowance from age 3 until his father died in the early 1990s (per his niece Mary) with some sort of business acumen. The fact is---toss in the tax returns obtained by NYT that showed 45 was the nation's largest loser for a ten year period---until his game show, he was the epitome of neer-do-well, silver spoon  in mouth failure. This element of his base thinks he somehow can pull off an election victory, and when President Biden is sworn in, 45 will be revealed again as a loser, and a whining crybaby loser at that. The proud boys might finally catch on, though they may lack the brain power to make that connection.

 

The evangelicals had this absurd belief that 45 was some heaven sent neo messiah.  Forget the fact few deities of any faith would choose as their messiah a serial philandering, pathologically lying, willfully ignorant, self-absorbed Narcissistic clown, but given that he lost, these folks will have to consider that maybe their deity doesn't really like him. They might be forced to remember the words of Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, who answered when asked if 'god is on our side' replied, "I'm more concerned that we're on god's side'.

 

The Proud Boys and the rest of the Trump cult members do not view like this at all.  None of the above matters to them in the least.  They don't blame the Covid failure on Trump at all.  Certainly the bankruptcies, because they saw with their own eyes for 14 years on TV that Trump is a billionaire who can hire and fire anyone at will.  They will believe for years that the election was rigged against 

Trump.

 

To the rest of us beyond the range of Trump's halo, it's hard to believe that anyone could view him this way, but they can, they do, and they will.  What the political consequences of that will be remain to be seen.