13 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Lawmakers Who Backed Texas Lawsuit Should Be Barred From House: NJ Congressman

 

"Pascrell accused the House members who signed an amicus brief supporting the action — including House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) — of violating the Constitution by seeking to nullify Americans’ votes and instead choose a “dictator,” citing Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, enacted after the Civil War and designed to keep traitors out of government.

The “text of the 14th Amendment expressly forbids Members of Congress from engaging in rebellion against the United States,” he tweeted. “Trying to overturn a democratic election and install a dictator seems like a pretty clear example of that.”"

 

Amen. These persons are traitors just like trump.

For sure the House members from Michigan et ball who supported the law suit should withdraw. After all they were in their opinion not elected legally.

6 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

before this is over, expect half a million dead.  that's a lot of angry friends and relatives that will be hounding him the rest of his life.

 

Wish I could say I thought your comment above was true...in terms of CV victims' families and friends holding those responsible ... responsible for the disaster that has transpired because of the Trump Admin.

 

But from what I've read on such things, when it comes to the hard-core Trumpists when faced with CV deaths in their family  or immediate circle, they don't seem to hold him to account. They blame China, or chalk it up to the Lord's choice, or some other kind of nonsense.

'

The denial of reality is strong and pervasive among those folks.

 

 

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Well put!!!  We can only hope some of the GOP come to their senses.  Sadly, with Mitch at the helm of the senate, there's no hope.  Such a dinosaur.

 

this is a very interesting read:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/opinion/trump-constitution-norms.html

 

What Really Saved the Republic From Trump?

It wasn’t our constitutional system of checks and balances.

 

I too think that's an interesting article, and good perspective on the upstanding people in the military, Justice Department and state and local elections agencies that refused to be bullied and coerced by Trump and Co.

 

But, at the same time, it seems to give short shrift to the fact that Trump might be heading toward a 2nd term as president were it not for the fact that his own (literally) Supreme Court decisively ruled against him in the farcical Texas lawsuit meant to unravel Biden's victory.

 

It will be very interesting to hear, perhaps, in the years ahead just what may have gone on behind the scenes in the justices deliberations over that case. Even though none publicly showed any support for the lawsuit, you have to wonder where they would have landed had it been some different kind of case where partisan leanings might have been easier to justify.

 

And at the same time, let's not forget the American people!  Enough of them turned out to vote for Biden/against Trump that in the end, the election wasn't so close, and didn't hang on Trump's ability to perhaps coerce the state legislators in just one pivotal state. In the end, there were too many states and too many votes to just easily erase.

 

Unless, the Supreme Court and Trump's own appointees there had been willing to mount one of the most enormous assaults on U.S. democracy ever witnessed, and in the process, sully the reputation and credibility of their own institution for decades to come.  Fortunately, even this Supreme Court wasn't willing to go THAT far.

 

 

4 hours ago, J Town said:

45 supporter and popular amongst the red hats is a guy named Nick Fuentes who is actively calling for the MAGA gang to destroy the GOP. I did NOT have THAT one on my Bingo card!

 

What more evidence is needed to arrest this guy and any of his followers for advocating violence and sedition. Then when Trump leaves the WH arrest him for sedition also.

 

At the present tie it is only ranting but from the look and sound of them they are dangerous.

7 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Some suggested that generations of creeping economic insecurity have inspired deep anger, compelling many voters in the white middle and working classes to embrace Trump, flaws and all, because he challenges the American status quo.

 

The above excerpt that you quoted, I think, is a cogent explanation... Except that it somewhat misses one big thing.

 

While Trump may have been a challenge to the U.S. status quo in style, he wasn't a challenge to the U.S. economic status quo in any way that actually benefited lower or middle class working Americans more than already was the case. Rather, the rich-poor disparity gap widened further during his tenure. Yet his followers somehow simply don't get that.

 

Where he truly was a challenge to the American status quo was in his myriad attempt to undermine democratic institutions, the built-in systems of constitutional checks and balances, the expansion of presidential autocracy, and the politics of hate and demonization.

 

3 hours ago, J Town said:

45 supporter and popular amongst the red hats is a guy named Nick Fuentes who is actively calling for the MAGA gang to destroy the GOP. I did NOT have THAT one on my Bingo card!

 

I've been waiting for this a long time, pre-DT, but expected it during the Tea Party.  For the GOP voters/supporters (as opposed to the ones in power) to realize these guys do not act in their interest, regardless of the testaments of patriotism (I heard a speech Pence gave in Florida (or Georgia?) last week, platitudes as obvious and empty as an old soda can).  Recall Sarah Palin having an open media b_tch fight with Barbara Bush, the former denouncing the other as a blue blood.

 

Strictly for entertainment, there is an episode of the series Homeland (season 7, episode 4) where these guys have it out with Federal LE.  Not pretty.  The Alex Jones character cowers in the basement.

 

 

17 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

I heard an interview with Barbara Res the other day.  She managed projects for Trump over 18 years, but quit years ago.  She thinks that Trump will indeed flee the country to avoid prosecution in NY State and possibly other states.  My own view is that the most rational course of action for Trump is to pardon his family and co-conspirators, get a pardon for himself from Pence, and then flee the country.  I assume that his lawyers advise him as much.

It's not that simple for Trump.  Without an adoring audience he will wither away and die.  He loves the spotlight even more than golf.

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

  Without an adoring audience he will wither away and die.  He loves the spotlight even more than golf.

Oh please let this be true

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by RJRS1301

Trumps legacy, a nation divided.

Numerous posts have been removed, including ones trying without evidence to implicate President Elect Joe Biden in the current federal investigation of his son; conspiracy theory posts, and posts with social media content from non-news agency sources.

 

Please be reminded of the forum policy:

 

18) Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube  etc.) should always be shown

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Lawmakers Who Backed Texas Lawsuit Should Be Barred From House: NJ Congressman

 

"Pascrell accused the House members who signed an amicus brief supporting the action — including House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) — of violating the Constitution by seeking to nullify Americans’ votes and instead choose a “dictator,” citing Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, enacted after the Civil War and designed to keep traitors out of government.

The “text of the 14th Amendment expressly forbids Members of Congress from engaging in rebellion against the United States,” he tweeted. “Trying to overturn a democratic election and install a dictator seems like a pretty clear example of that.”"

 

Amen. These persons are traitors just like trump.

Morally, maybe. Legally, not.

34 minutes ago, heybruce said:

It's not that simple for Trump.  Without an adoring audience he will wither away and die.  He loves the spotlight even more than golf.

I think Trump is rational enough to realize that the adoring audiences in Attica will be even scarcer than in Trump Tower Istanbul.

6 hours ago, J Town said:

He is doing as much damage as he can while he still can. Did you see that tweet about declassifying ALL information?

 

Biden will have his hands full when he enters on the 20th. As well as having to clean up the enormous mess left by this clown, he also has a very divided Democratic party. Biden is just another old white corporatist, deeply in the pockets of Big Pharma, and the up and coming Democrats in Congress are not putting up with "the same old." The country is weary of systemic racism, corporate greed, the OBVIOUS outrageous gouging in the healthcare system, and many more issues. It's still better than the nightmare of another 4 years of what's-his-name.

 

wasn't sure if he meant to declassify Everything (all of it!) or just everything (about the vote rigging).  but transparency is good if not taken to extremes.  no reason now not to declassify the jfk files, the truth about aliens,  mlk files, and etc.

 

it's true he has full power to declassify, although some of the alphabet soup agencies will fight it in court long enough to prevent release.  i suspect very little of national security value will see the light of day.

 

maybe he would be satisfied with having the nsa release "her" 33,000 missing emails, "his" tax returns, "proof" his campaign was spied upon, and the long-form version of the birth certificate of his arch-nemesis.

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

I think that is a TV station for sale at the far end of Nakhon Nowhere which might suit him as he seems to get on well with dictators.

 

san quentin has a small studio that could be used by inmates for podcasting during daily exercise periods.

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

 

 

Not a word about non  violence in protest from CIC, any word of compassionate for the injured?

The man is>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

well, he DID buzz the crowd in the presidential helicopter three times on the way to watch the army-navy football game.

 

https://cbs4indy.com/news/politics/trump-helicopter-buzzes-supporters-at-rally-in-washington/

 

good to know his priorities are in order.....on the day covid deaths in the usa broke 300,000.

 

at one death every 30 seconds, well, you do the math for how many died just during the flyovers.

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

well, he DID buzz the crowd in the presidential helicopter three times on the way to watch the army-navy football game.

 

https://cbs4indy.com/news/politics/trump-helicopter-buzzes-supporters-at-rally-in-washington/

 

good to know his priorities are in order.....on the day covid deaths in the usa broke 300,000.

 

at one death every 30 seconds, well, you do the math for how many died just during the flyovers.

Failed to order "Stand Down" people.

That is the executive order he could/should issue.

 

 

11 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

well, he DID buzz the crowd in the presidential helicopter three times on the way to watch the army-navy football game.

 

 

And stood maskless in a crowd of masked Army cadets, continuing to set a bad example to what will be a bitter end for him.

A post with unsubstantiated claims and replies have been removed.

 

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I wish I shared your optimism. I think the damage that has happened under Mr Trump may be permanent. There has been severe democratic backsliding. It won't be quick or easy to reverse that.

I thought about this and am adding why I am still optimistic like you indicate. I believe the supporters will disappear as quickly as they appeared. The division today is not dissappearing though for certain. The resumption of America before the trump phenonama will reappear I expect.

Cease with the personal comment posts, which have been removed. Any further of them will result in posting suspensions.

 

You're free to discuss the topic, not each other.

 

And on the Consistency Front:

 

Federal Judge in Wisconsin Deals Trump Another Court Defeat

A Trump appointee in Milwaukee, Judge Brett H. Ludwig, dismissed a suit contesting the election with a withering rebuke.

A federal judge in Milwaukee on Saturday tossed out President Trump’s latest effort to overturn the election results in Wisconsin, dismissing the case and ruling that it had failed “as a matter of law and fact.”

In a strongly worded decision, Judge Brett H. Ludwig, a Trump appointee who took his post only three months ago, shot down one of the president’s last remaining attempts to alter the results of a statewide race. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/us/trump-election-lawsuit-wisconsin.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by placeholder

29 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

I thought about this and am adding why I am still optimistic like you indicate. I believe the supporters will disappear as quickly as they appeared. The division today is not dissappearing though for certain. The resumption of America before the trump phenonama will reappear I expect.

 

I, on the other hand, have the opposite expectation.  Following the theory of Balint Magyar, Trump's whole political career up to the election this year represents an "autocratic attempt," i.e. an attack on the institutions and norms of democracy.  The post-election denial of the electoral results was Trump's attempt at an "autocratic breakthrough," which would have destroyed the democratic process probably irretrievably.  That attempt did not succeed, but there are numerous historical examples where the first attempt at a fascist takeover failed, but the fascist group nevertheless did achieve power subsequently.  The Munich Putsch of 1922 failed, but the Nazis nevertheless were in total control ten years later.  Viktor Orban's first term as prime minister of Hungary was followed by two terms when he was relegated to the opposition, following which he has returned to power even achieving "autocratic consolidation."  The anti-democratic forces of the Republican Party aren't going away and they aren't giving up.

 

Nor are the old norms of American politics coming back.  The information bubble that created an audience susceptible to the most extreme distortions of reality isn't going away.  The expectations for obstruction by the opposition have solidified.  No one expects to McConnell to allow Biden to fill any seat on the Supreme Court, if the Republicans continue to hold the Senate.  

 

The Republicans have no alternative but to support anti-democratic strategies to get and hold power, because they represent the interests of the rich which are in direct conflict which the values of the majority of Americans, which are in fact progressive.  

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by cmarshall

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And on the Consistency Front:

 

Federal Judge in Wisconsin Deals Trump Another Court Defeat

A Trump appointee in Milwaukee, Judge Brett H. Ludwig, dismissed a suit contesting the election with a withering rebuke.

A federal judge in Milwaukee on Saturday tossed out President Trump’s latest effort to overturn the election results in Wisconsin, dismissing the case and ruling that it had failed “as a matter of law and fact.”

In a strongly worded decision, Judge Brett H. Ludwig, a Trump appointee who took his post only three months ago, shot down one of the president’s last remaining attempts to alter the results of a statewide race. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/us/trump-election-lawsuit-wisconsin.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

It seems the rule of law is part of the deep state.  I certainly hope so.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Morally, maybe. Legally, not.

How so?

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

I've been waiting for this a long time, pre-DT, but expected it during the Tea Party.

 

 

Doesn't this seem like Tea Party version 2?

Trump can't protect himself from New York prosecutors with a self-pardon, says the state senator who wrote the law to explicitly stop this from happening

 

"President Donald Trump can't dodge New York prosecutors with a self-pardon, according to a state senator who wrote the law to stop things like this from happening.

In October 2019, Sen. Todd Kaminsky helped pass legislation to close New York state's double-jeopardy loophole, which had prevented prosecutors from bringing charges against those who had avoided similar charges at federal level due to a presidential pardon. Presidents can self-pardon, but it would only apply to federal offenses."

I smell some 'heartfelt' thoughts and prayers coming from the repub hypocrites who have helped enable this farce that 45 fomented, as the likelihood of people dying at the hands of wrongly aggrieved violent magas is almost a certainty.

 

The blood, if and when it comes, will be on 45 and the 126 signers for sedition House members' hands, plus all those repubs who remained silent in the face of a coup against a man whom 81,000,000 Americans chose as their next POTUS.

 

GUARANTEED they will say, "No one could have seen this coming", which is yet another lie from pathological liars.

3 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I smell some 'heartfelt' thoughts and prayers coming from the repub hypocrites who have helped enable this farce that 45 fomented, as the likelihood of people dying at the hands of wrongly aggrieved violent magas is almost a certainty.

 

The blood, if and when it comes, will be on 45 and the 126 signers for sedition House members' hands, plus all those repubs who remained silent in the face of a coup against a man whom 81,000,000 Americans chose as their next POTUS.

 

GUARANTEED they will say, "No one could have seen this coming", which is yet another lie from pathological liars.

Agree, but you are looking at this someone who cares.....they don't give a flying...........

59 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

I, on the other hand, have the opposite expectation.  Following the theory of Balint Magyar, Trump's whole political career up to the election this year represents an "autocratic attempt," i.e. an attack on the institutions and norms of democracy.  The post-election denial of the electoral results was Trump's attempt at an "autocratic breakthrough," which would have destroyed the democratic process probably irretrievably.  That attempt did not succeed, but there are numerous historical examples where the first attempt at a fascist takeover failed, but the fascist group nevertheless did achieve power subsequently.  The Munich Putsch of 1922 failed, but the Nazis nevertheless were in total control ten years later.  Viktor Orban's first term as prime minister of Hungary was followed by two terms when he was relegated to the opposition, following which he has returned to power even achieving "autocratic consolidation."  The anti-democratic forces of the Republican Party aren't going away and they aren't giving up.

 

Nor are the old norms of American politics coming back.  The information bubble that created an audience susceptible to the most extreme distortions of reality isn't going away.  The expectations for obstruction by the opposition have solidified.  No one expects to McConnell to allow Biden to fill any seat on the Supreme Court, if the Republicans continue to hold the Senate.  

 

The Republicans have no alternative but to support anti-democratic strategies to get and hold power, because they represent the interests of the rich which are in direct conflict which the values of the majority of Americans, which are in fact progressive.  

 

"The information bubble that created an audience susceptible to the most extreme distortions of reality isn't going away."

 

That is my greatest fear.  Trump labeled the press "the enemy of the people".  https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/437610-trump-calls-press-the-enemy-of-the-people

 

I'm at a loss as to how to describe that.   Undemocratic, un-Constitutional, and un-American just don't cover it, yet a very large minority of US citizens cheer such an obvious tyrant wannabe.

 

As a joke in "A Day at the Races", Chico Marx said "Who you gonna believe, your eyes or me?".  It was a great joke.  But now many people are living the joke. How does one fix such enthusiastic willful ignorance?

58 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

How so?

Well i agtee. If repubs sign on to lawsuits that the election was a fraud then they should stand down. Thats if they believe it.