1 minute ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

i dunno.  he's got half a billion in debt coming due next year.  deutsche bank and the saudis want their money back....now.  as an ex-president, they no longer have to wait.  they want to dump him as a client, and no new banks will take him on.

 

due to the covids, and the situation in the usa he's fully responsible for, his golf courses and hotels and casinos are struggling, many were money-losers before the virus troubles.  look for more bankruptcies and desperate deal-making as he scrambles to stay above water.

 

there are now 80 million americans that hate his guts, and a hell of a lotta those 70 million maga'rs will soon realize what he's done to the republican party and to them personally (and to the country as a whole).  when the loss finally sinks in, many will abandon him.  his planned media empire will flounder as his fans abandon him.  he might get a weekly podcast "from an undisclosed location" for the core dead-enders, but he'll never get "the numbers."  and numbers is all he's ever been about.

 

what's left?  he's not even welcome on fox news!  he's still got a security detail for life, but who will have him?  which bars, hotels, country clubs (not owned by self) would let him and his g-men in?  trump is no longer president, so who wants the headache of his whining, and the disruption of closing to the public for his specialness, not to mention the inevitable protests, public shaming, boycotts that will come with serving his entourage?

 

don't forget, the covids ain't over.  not by a long shot, and some are saying the worst is yet to come.  the vaccine won't be readily available for months, after the xmas season, after the anti-inauguration rallies and demonstrations.  before this is over, expect half a million dead.  that's a lot of angry friends and relatives that will be hounding him the rest of his life.  i wouldn't wanna be him alone in public, without a bulletproof limo and a herd of trained g'men for protection.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that certain foreign governments will find a way to get cash to him. Trump's debts are chump change to them.

8 minutes ago, shdmn said:

It's a lot of things but it all can be distilled down to hating libs.  Anything and everything about libs.  So much so that they are willing to sacrifice democracy itself over it.  Most of it pounded into them over decades of brainwashing by Fox news and now more and more from the internet.  99% of them will never changed and are therefore hopeless.  The only thing you can do is outvote them and wait for them to die off.

And I'd bet many of them are either currently benefiting from "lib" programs, or were at some point.  And most have no clue what being a liberal is all about.  I'm socially liberal, but financially conservative.  Ala William Buckley.

 

Here's what Trump's supporters believe in.  Liberalism at it's finest.  Sadly, the cult members aren't smart enough to figure this out.  Like you say, brainwashed by the alt right media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

Liberalism in the United States is a political and moral philosophy based on what liberals consider the unalienable rights of the individual. The fundamental liberal ideals of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right to due process and equality under the law are widely accepted as a common foundation of liberalism.

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by Jeffr2

7 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

i dunno.  he's got half a billion in debt coming due next year.  deutsche bank and the saudis want their money back....now.  as an ex-president, they no longer have to wait.  they want to dump him as a client, and no new banks will take him on.

 

due to the covids, and the situation in the usa he's fully responsible for, his golf courses and hotels and casinos are struggling, many were money-losers before the virus troubles.  look for more bankruptcies and desperate deal-making as he scrambles to stay above water.

 

there are now 80 million americans that hate his guts, and a hell of a lotta those 70 million maga'rs will soon realize what he's done to the republican party and to them personally (and to the country as a whole).  when the loss finally sinks in, many will abandon him.  his planned media empire will flounder as his fans abandon him.  he might get a weekly podcast "from an undisclosed location" for the core dead-enders, but he'll never get "the numbers."  and numbers is all he's ever been about.

 

what's left?  he's not even welcome on fox news!  he's still got a security detail for life, but who will have him?  which bars, hotels, country clubs (not owned by self) would let him and his g-men in?  trump is no longer president, so who wants the headache of his whining, and the disruption of closing to the public for his specialness, not to mention the inevitable protests, public shaming, boycotts that will come with serving his entourage?

 

don't forget, the covids ain't over.  not by a long shot, and some are saying the worst is yet to come.  the vaccine won't be readily available for months, after the xmas season, after the anti-inauguration rallies and demonstrations.  before this is over, expect half a million dead.  that's a lot of angry friends and relatives that will be hounding him the rest of his life.  i wouldn't wanna be him alone in public, without a bulletproof limo and a herd of trained g'men for protection.

Well put!!!  We can only hope some of the GOP come to their senses.  Sadly, with Mitch at the helm of the senate, there's no hope.  Such a dinosaur.

 

this is a very interesting read:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/opinion/trump-constitution-norms.html

 

What Really Saved the Republic From Trump?

It wasn’t our constitutional system of checks and balances.

 

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think it's a pretty safe bet that certain foreign governments will find a way to get cash to him. Trump's debts are chump change to them.

 

that's possible, but pay for what?  surely not for what he can do for them, but rather what he can do to cause more divisiveness in the us.  might make sense ordinarily, but which governments would be interested with biden in power?

 

the likely suspects have more to gain with a functioning american government under biden.  biden will limit (although probably still abuse) financial sanctions.  he will renew or extend or sign new arms limitation treaties with the russians.  he plans to re-enter the jcpoa, and will likely reduce provocative actions in the middle east.

35 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Right. It is about owning the libs. Basically it's a cult of personality on the part of most Republicans. We know this because when Trump reversed himself on issues like the swamp his followers applauded.  Remember when Wall St was part of the swamp and Trump promised to bring it to heel? But when he appointed Steve Mnuchin, his followers applauded. And the results were entirely predictable: greatly reduced enforcement of Wall St. Whereas when Biden selected Austin, a much milder transgression, Democrats objected.

They are like terminators only instead of scary single purpose killer robots from the future they are mostly frail old white people on mobility scooters. Instead of the singular purpose of killing Sarah Connor their purpose is to hate libs and vote.

 

Or perhaps you can think of them as like The Walking Dead zombies that wander around undead and brainless on their mobility scooters with their MAGA dunce caps and fuk your feelings t-shirts.  Only instead of being attracted to noises they are attracted to rallies with "don't tread on me signs" and anything that looks like a voting booth.

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by shdmn

5 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Think of them as terminators.  Only instead of scary futuristic single purpose killer robots they are mostly frail old white people on mobility scooters. Instead of the singular purpose of killing Sarah Connor their purpose is to hate libs and vote.

 

Or perhaps you can think of them as like The Walking Dead zombies that wander around brainless (on their mobility scooters).  Only instead of being attracted to noises they wear MAGA(dunce) caps and f u k your feelings t-shirts and are attracted to rallies with "don't tread on me signs" and anything that looks like a voting booth.

I think it's best to think of them as people who subscribe to the doctrine of "truthiness"

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.^[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

Truthiness - Wikipedia

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think it's best to think of them as people who subscribe to the doctrine of "truthiness"

Truthiness is the belief or assertion that a particular statement is true based on the intuition or perceptions of some individual or individuals, without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.^[1][2] Truthiness can range from ignorant assertions of falsehoods to deliberate duplicity or propaganda intended to sway opinions.^[3][4]

Truthiness - Wikipedia

They do not give a damn about logic, reason or the truth.  Not one damn bit! 

 

What you are referring to are just the basics of any conspiracy theory.  It needs to be sprinkled with just enough facts to make it somewhat plausible.  They just barely even need that now a days.  QAnon is proof of that.  I guess claiming that Hugo Chavez, who has been dead for several years, was involved in stealing the election was going too far, but just barely.  A lot of them still ran with it.

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by shdmn

42 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And racism.  Most of Trump's supporters are whites with no college degree.  I think a lot of this BS started with Obama.  These people couldn't stand a black man (half black) as president.  Look at their comments at BLM.  They're clueless Kens and Karens.

I have not seem the statistical research as to the breakdown but I too think there are many working middle class who wrongly supported The Donald in 2016 hoping in his promises. Amazing that some of the same hope existed in 2020 after Trump’s record of malfeasance was documented. And I think history has recorded that the racial prejudice cannot be denied in playing into the reaction against Obama. Obama will do OK in history as the  racism and Republican led opposition from the beginning of his administration has been noted. Disappointing that more was not accomplished but ... with cause.

what will historians write in 50 years about trump? a modern caligula who chose neither sword nor poison to weaken the american democracy, but just fake news,  endlessly repeated....

33 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

<SNIP> this is a very interesting read:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/opinion/trump-constitution-norms.html

 

What Really Saved the Republic From Trump? It wasn’t our constitutional system of checks and balances.

 

 

Thanks, an excellent article. Would be good to read responses of a few trump supporters, will they or won't they acknowledge the 'truth' of trumps attempted subversion of democracy?

9 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I have not seem the statistical research as to the breakdown but I too think there are many working middle class who wrongly supported The Donald in 2016 hoping in his promises. Amazing that some of the same hope existed in 2020 after Trump’s record of malfeasance was documented. And I think history has recorded that the racial prejudice cannot be denied in playing into the reaction against Obama. Obama will do OK in history as the  racism and Republican led opposition from the beginning of his administration has been noted. Disappointing that more was not accomplished but ... with cause.

I'm stunned so many fall for Trump's (and the GOP's) lies and BS.  It really boggles my mind.  This is an excellent article and worth a read:

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/12/07/despite-drift-toward-authoritarianism-trump-voters-stay-loyal-why/

Quote

 

How do we explain this seemingly mass rejection of democratic processes — and the rejection of verified reality? In a series of interviews, Berkeley scholars across a range of disciplines suggested that this is a story not just of numbers, but of a complex interplay of class and racial antagonism, aggravated by despair and social drift and amplified by new communication platforms, converging to what some see as a troubling psychological phenomenon.

 

Some suggested that generations of creeping economic insecurity have inspired deep anger, compelling many voters in the white middle and working classes to embrace Trump, flaws and all, because he challenges the American status quo.

 

 

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

The GOP are eating their own.  What's wrong with these people?  Stunning people would even attend a rally like this.  And listen to people like this.  Boggles my mind.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/12/03/gabriel-sterling-georgia-election-pro-trump-attorneys-ebof-vpx.cnn

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

She sang many weeks ago.  Sad you don't understand that.  And a huge dent in our democracy. 

 

Look at the video I just posted.

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm stunned so many fall for Trump's (and the GOP's) lies and BS.  It really boggles my mind.  This is an excellent article and worth a read:

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/12/07/despite-drift-toward-authoritarianism-trump-voters-stay-loyal-why/

 

 

This has been my statement going into the election. It is my understanding as a student and educator of history (MA, Emeritus Professor) so I agree with much in the Berkeley article. The anti-intellectual reaction by Trump supporters plays large, I think, in the foolish rejection of Covid medical advice.

 

”My thought, supported by at least the economic statistics is that the political policies of both major political parties over the past 30-45 have caused increased economic pressure on the working middle class which forms the vast majority of the participatory democracy’s population.

 

With the growth, over the time period of the income/wealth disparity gap we have come to a critical juncture of disfunction. Many of those in the current working middle class were raised in a time witnessing the, at first tremendous growth of the US economic income and now, the slow decline of the paramount economic position of the United States post WW II.

 

For those of us in the “Baby Boomer” generation, we are filled with despair generally at seeing the usual growth of economic wellbeing through our work efforts resulting in less and less retirement age security. For our children, we see little hope, under current economic policy conditions to be able, through their work to afford the housing, access to medical care, access to improving their knowledge skills through higher education.

 

There is justified frustration/anger resulting from the economic stress and this evidences itself through our social stress. Not seeing hope, those who supported Trump in 2016, wanted to believe in his promises to address the needs and clean out the swamp of those who had brought on the economic stress (unfortunately, they did not read/study Trump’s historical background or they would have seen a record of a man far out of his depth to be given such a government position).

 

What alternative was offered by the other major party candidate … more of the same policies that have brought on the stress. Unless the mass of American working middle class citizen voters turn out to support a raising of the minimum wage, instituting a national healthcare program like all other developed democratic countries provide for their citizens, lowering the costs of gaining more knowledge through higher education (benefiting both individuals and American business) and protecting Social Security/Medicare … I predict the madness will continue as there will be no needed relief for the working middle class upon which and hope of a participatory democracy depends.”

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by onthedarkside
edited for formatting

6 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

Dewd! She's been singing for days and is now hoarse from it all.

A joke I read somewhere else.

 

Quote

A pair of MAGAs die in a bass fishing accident and end up before God. God asks the two men if they have any questions as he will answer anything they wish to know. The two men discuss it for a while before they come up with something to ask. “God... did Joe Biden rig the 2020 election?”

“No my child, he did not,” God replies. One MAGA turns to the other and says “man this thing goes way higher than we thought.”

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by shdmn

On 12/12/2020 at 12:39 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

39 days to go.

 

Still time for some executive orders on prison reforms.

The CIC is becoming the Killer in Chief, so many executions being carried out, not satisfied with 3k deaths per day, has to get the prisons to continue his foul legacy of destruction

Conspiracy troll posts and replies have been removed

32 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

She is certainly rewriting the aria for the dissa[ppointed

On a similar note, over the last two hours only one little blip about the outgoing guy and how he's lost. He's no longer newsworthy.

 

 

Edited December 13, 20205 yr by J Town
brevity

35 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

It's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

I expect you'll be saying this even on 20 Jan when President Biden takes office.  So by all means, keep sending Trump money.  He needs to pay Rudy his $20,000/day to do.....whatever it is that Rudy does. 

Trump and Paxton should both be tried for treason. 

5 minutes ago, J Town said:

On a similar note, over the last two hours only one little blip about the outgoing guy and how he's lost. He's no longer newsworthy.

 

 

 

that's the scary part.

 

what sort of batsoup crazy actions can he take over the next six weeks to inflict as much pain on an america that denied him his rightful second term?  half a million dead just isn't enough of a legacy.

Troll post and replies remove.   Continue and face a suspension.

 

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

that's the scary part.

 

what sort of batsoup crazy actions can he take over the next six weeks to inflict as much pain on an America that denied him his rightful second term?  half a million dead just isn't enough of a legacy.

He is doing as much damage as he can while he still can. Did you see that tweet about declassifying ALL information?

 

Biden will have his hands full when he enters on the 20th. As well as having to clean up the enormous mess left by this clown, he also has a very divided Democratic party. Biden is just another old white corporatist, deeply in the pockets of Big Pharma, and the up and coming Democrats in Congress are not putting up with "the same old." The country is weary of systemic racism, corporate greed, the OBVIOUS outrageous gouging in the healthcare system, and many more issues. It's still better than the nightmare of another 4 years of what's-his-name.

The fallout from the disastrous 45 era will be substantial and far reaching. Obviously the world will never view the US the same again, nor will most trust the US. As Donny Deutsch and professor Eddie Glaude said the other day, we have to accept that the US has tens of millions of 'jerks', the kind of people who when they lose, threaten to kill people who did their jobs honorably, or who subscribe to the most bizarre and silly conspiracies. Glaude says 45 is the avatar of a moral rot that has taken hold in the US. Another 45 is possible, and the next one might be competent. The US just got lucky this time, because 45 is so incompetent, willfully ignorant, and childishly vindictive.

 

The last 4 years has also revealed that the repub party is a dinosaur, albeit one that pretty much knows it's on the verge of extinction. Members know the party is doomed if the US remains a democracy, so they are fighting hard to destroy that democracy. They went way too far sucking up to 45, abandoning fealty to the oath they all took but now ignore, and they also know the demographic shift in the US increasingly will put them on the margin. Whatever principles 'conservatives' once had have been abandoned. Deficits don't matter if they're in power. Small govt is a forgotten concept; instead government should have access to every part of citizen's private lives if it behavior violates whatever claimed morality the party claims, when in fact most are totally immoral but love to project their own faults on the opposition. Natsec used to have at its core both a strong defense capability and strong bonds with allies. Now, defense is mostly pork barrel projects that, at best, fight the last war, and at worst are just cynical payoffs to the donor class, while under 45 even underlings have gone full dictator sycophantic. Remember 13 sitting repubs spent 4th of July in Moscow, invited by Putin, and every one of them has become a champion of GRU/FSB/SVR created disinformation, the worst offender being sen johnson.

 

The US has benefited from a two Party system, as rational folks could meet in the middle and compromise far away from the fringes of either Party. Perhaps those who never bought into the 45 cult, exemplified by the folks who began the Lincoln Project, can salvage a conservative movement from the ashes of their Party, but given the number of people smitten by the totally un-American ideology of 45, the resurrected conservative wing of US politics may not resonate with enough people to win elections.

 

Many people fear violence as 45 foments idiocy on his way out the door. He knows he lost, but is so cynical and self-serving, he won't give up the ghost because it's making him money that he needs. His brand, at least in terms of what it was, is dead. His base is not exactly the target market for his schlocky properties, as they lack the financial wherewithal to be customers. Those with money also now know that 45 can do nothing for them, so they needn't curry favor by putting money in his pocket. Financial statements that are mandatory for non-US private companies show 45's businesses are losing everywhere. One can assume his US properties are bleeding money in a similar manner. He is a business failure, but often find ways to re-invent himself. he became a game show host a decade or so ago, and that was his first legal profitable venture since he inherited his wealth from his father. Now he is grifting his base by telling them what they want to hear, and gladly taking in their meager savings which his funding emails state he can use pretty much however he wants. His base doesn't read the small print, so he's hosing them because he can.

 

Following the old Goebbels maxim about a lie told enough times becomes somebody's truth, 45 continues to rile up his base with discredited claims of fraud and 'stolen elections', when the fact is he got his butt handed to him. He is a loser, but protrays himself as a winner, and his base buys the delusion. They are frothing at the mouth threatening people who stand against 45 or people who have followed their oaths and done their jobs. It's only a matter of time before someone is killed by his base, and he couldn't care less.

 

Never has the US faced a crisis of this magnitude, at least not in the last 155 years. Whether the nation survives as a whole unit, or whether its democracy survives, remains to be seen. It's sad that a system most thought strong turns out to have so much weakness inherent in it, just waiting for an immoral huckster to come along and exploit all the back doors, like an early rendition of Windows.

I am so pleased to finally find the odd newspaper that does not have a picture of Trump on the front page. His ugly rose bud mouth and piggy eyes were driving me insane. 

Rudi Giuliani is reputedly charging $20,000 a day for his "legal advice"....one wonders what sort of business man pays a guy $20,000 a day to lose this many lawsuits.

2 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I am so pleased to finally find the odd newspaper that does not have a picture of Trump on the front page. His ugly rose bud mouth and piggy eyes were driving me insane. 

Rudi Giuliani is reputedly charging $20,000 a day for his "legal advice"....one wonders what sort of business man pays a guy $20,000 a day to lose this many lawsuits.

I mentioned earlier today, in two hours of television news, only one small mention of a loser with small hands.

 

Giuliani knows where the bodies are buried, he has too much dirt on said loser. I suspect the loser is seeing the walls close in and Rudy is about the only one left who will take him on as a client. Besides, the gullible folks wearing those red hats continue to donate at an ALARMING rate. $20,000/day is peanuts - for now.

I'm just wondering how Joe Biden, the geriatric who stutters and thinks as quickly as a snail, has somehow morphed into an evil mastermind who has stolen the election from a business genius, and hero to all right-thinking Americans. How could this have happened to so many patriots? Did Trump appoint traitors to the Supreme Court?