First Lift At Gym

[Inala]

8 hours ago, thairastawoman said:

Cardio seems a lot more important but few bodybuilders seem to understand it...

No, cardio generally wastes muscle, it does not build it at all. Bodybuilders do understand this fact. Cardio done in HIIT style is okay, but long steady cardio will only erode the gains you made in muscle size...

[2009]

First I lift a Singha, then I lift some cash from the ATM, then the birds lift their skirts.

 

I never understood lifting (for health). Never understood it for appearance either.

[hotchilli]

On 12/22/2020 at 2:06 PM, Bob12345 said:

On lower body days i start with squats, on upper body days with bench. Ha!

I start with a coffee, I leave the squats to the missus.

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, 2009 said:

First I lift a Singha, then I lift some cash from the ATM, then the birds lift their skirts.

 

I never understood lifting (for health). Never understood it for appearance either.

 

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I start with a coffee, I leave the squats to the missus.

Social Darwinism at work, love it. My only complaint is how long it takes before the full results. Big pharma mostly to blame. Have you noticed how all the little jokes & bravado disappear over in the Health forum? Whoops.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by BigStar

[2009]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

Social Darwinism at work, love it. My only complaint is how long it takes before the full results. Big pharma mostly to blame. Have you noticed how all the little jokes & bravado disappear over in the Health forum? Whoops.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I lifted when I was younger. I was avid about the gym. Was there most days. The results were so slow. Maybe it is my body type. Just little point from my experience.

 

However, yoga and stretching - I like! As well as cardio. The results are relatively quick and the benefits obvious (healthy organs from cardio and better posture from yoga).

 

But lifting? I don't get it. It is good for the metabolism (burning calories while at rest), but other than that I don't see the point.

 

 

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

However, yoga and stretching - I like! As well as cardio. The results are relatively quick and the benefits obvious (healthy organs from cardio and better posture from yoga).

Goody. But insufficient. Off topic, BTW; after this, let's try to stay on topic, please.

 

If you like your cardio, you're probably doing it inefficiently, getting small ROI. Checked your VO2max? Nope. So it's doing something but not much while putting wear on your joints through steady state repetitive stress. Same with lifting. Done intensely enough, resistance training can even relieve you of the need to do any cardio, besides taking up only an hour or so a week. I tend to take my time, however, watching vids, listening to music, so I go ahead and add in 30 min of sprints. ????

 

It's business, not entertainment, like brushing your teeth.

 

 

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

But lifting? I don't get it. It is good for the metabolism (burning calories while at rest), but other than that I don't see the point.

The wondrous thing about Social Darwinism is the way it creates selection bias and discourages common sense. No wonder accidents play such a large role in mortality.

 

 

Studies all point to the benefits conferred by resistance training. Certainly I've enjoyed them.

 

Lifting, BTW, is but one method of resistance training. The fitness industry doesn't much like to acknowledge that fact, so you'll need to dig around. Being fit doesn't at all mean bodybuilding and trying to become Arnold. Overtraining just leads to injury. The goal should be this: fitness with health. "Physique" is mostly a concern of young men with few other advantages trying to impress girls. Turns out the girls are a lot less impressed than usually assumed. ????

 

So if you wish you can read the science here:

 

Accordingly, these findings suggest that there are no true “non-responders” to the benefits of RET [Resistance Exercise Training] amongst the elderly and that it should be promoted without restriction to prevent and manage sarcopenia and dynapenia. . . .

 

In 2009, Cress et al. identified the key components of best practice physical activity programs for older adult populations as being 1) muscular strength and endurance, 2) balance, 3) cardiovascular endurance, and 4) flexibility (Cress et al., 2005). While many of the existing best practice community programs incorporate these components into their physical activity interventions, very few have adopted the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) guidelines for progressive high intensity RET to promote muscle hypertrophy, strength and power (American College of Sports, 2009). . . .

 

A well-designed, progressive resistance exercise training program is well known to exert positive effects on both the nervous and muscular systems and, ultimately, results in profound enhancements in muscle mass and muscle strength. Accordingly, resistance exercise training should be considered a first-line treatment strategy for managing and preventing both sarcopenia and dynapenia.

     --"Resistance Exercise to Prevent and Manage Sarcopenia and Dynapenia," https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849483/    

 

And just google around for "benefits of resistance exercise" if you want to know more.  On the other hand, ace TVF Longevity Researchers have studied Diet and Exercise Avoidance for decades; you may read the latest congenial research results (same old results, same little jokes) here:  Exercise is everything.

 

This topic isn't about "why exercise."

[2009]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Goody. But insufficient. Off topic, BTW; after this, let's try to stay on topic, please.

 

If you like your cardio, you're probably doing it inefficiently, getting small ROI. Checked your VO2max? Nope. So it's doing something but not much while putting wear on your joints through steady state repetitive stress. Same with lifting. Done intensely enough, resistance training can even relieve you of the need to do any cardio, besides taking up only an hour or so a week. I tend to take my time, however, watching vids, listening to music, so I go ahead and add in 30 min of sprints. ????

 

It's business, not entertainment, like brushing your teeth.

 

 

The wondrous thing about Social Darwinism is the way it creates selection bias and discourages common sense. No wonder accidents play such a large role in mortality.

 

 

Studies all point to the benefits conferred by resistance training. Certainly I've enjoyed them.

 

Lifting, BTW, is but one method of resistance training. The fitness industry doesn't much like to acknowledge that fact, so you'll need to dig around. Being fit doesn't at all mean bodybuilding and trying to become Arnold. Overtraining just leads to injury. The goal should be this: fitness with health. "Physique" is mostly a concern of young men with few other advantages trying to impress girls. Turns out the girls are a lot less impressed than usually assumed. ????

 

So if you wish you can read the science here:

 

Accordingly, these findings suggest that there are no true “non-responders” to the benefits of RET [Resistance Exercise Training] amongst the elderly and that it should be promoted without restriction to prevent and manage sarcopenia and dynapenia. . . .

 

In 2009, Cress et al. identified the key components of best practice physical activity programs for older adult populations as being 1) muscular strength and endurance, 2) balance, 3) cardiovascular endurance, and 4) flexibility (Cress et al., 2005). While many of the existing best practice community programs incorporate these components into their physical activity interventions, very few have adopted the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) guidelines for progressive high intensity RET to promote muscle hypertrophy, strength and power (American College of Sports, 2009). . . .

 

A well-designed, progressive resistance exercise training program is well known to exert positive effects on both the nervous and muscular systems and, ultimately, results in profound enhancements in muscle mass and muscle strength. Accordingly, resistance exercise training should be considered a first-line treatment strategy for managing and preventing both sarcopenia and dynapenia.

     --"Resistance Exercise to Prevent and Manage Sarcopenia and Dynapenia," https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4849483/    

 

And just google around for "benefits of resistance exercise" if you want to know more.  On the other hand, ace TVF Longevity Researchers have studied Diet and Exercise Avoidance for decades; you may read the latest congenial research results (same old results, same little jokes) here:  Exercise is everything.

 

This topic isn't about "why exercise."

VO2 - no idea what your talking about.

 

All I know is that studies indicate that 30 mins of brisk walking a day is all you need to get the longevity benefits of cardio. 

 

Being an Olympic sprinter or marathon runner doesn't increase longevity any more than a brisk walk a day - and that includes HIIT, buddy!

[mikebike]

Best resistance training for everyday folk = doing stuff. 

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

All I know is that studies indicate that 30 mins of brisk walking a day is all you need to get the longevity benefits of cardio. 

Try to remember. Focus. Your puzzlement wasn’t about cardio. It wasn’t about longevity. My answer wasn’t about cardio except to note you’re probably doing it inefficiently, as indeed you are. Nor was my answer about longevity. True, TVF Longevity Researchers do attempt to use longevity as a red herring argument for avoiding exercise and a healthy diet.

 

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

Being an Olympic sprinter or marathon runner doesn't increase longevity any more than a brisk walk a day - and that includes HIIT, buddy!

Again, you’ve forgotten the point of your own topic and my sufficient answer for it. Anyway, ace TVF Longevity Researchers have determined that healthy diet and exercise have no effect whatsoever on longevity and may be safely ignored (in favor of medication, as it turns out, though for some reason they refuse to talk about that)--a view you’ll no doubt find appealing.

 

[thairastawoman]

On 8/1/2021 at 7:35 AM, Inala said:

No, cardio generally wastes muscle, it does not build it at all. Bodybuilders do understand this fact. Cardio done in HIIT style is okay, but long steady cardio will only erode the gains you made in muscle size...

 

yes but are you sure that your weight lifting will help you to live longer ?

i find ridiculous to train so hard when not also training your heart.

In 1 second you could be dead.

 

 

 

 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, thairastawoman said:

i find ridiculous to train so hard when not also training your heart.

How does weight training or HIIT not train your heart?

[Inala]

15 hours ago, thairastawoman said:

 

yes but are you sure that your weight lifting will help you to live longer ?

i find ridiculous to train so hard when not also training your heart.

In 1 second you could be dead.

 

 

 

 

It really depends on what type of weightlifting you're doing. The isolation exercises used by bodybuilders to target smaller muscles do not generally elevate your heart rate. The compound type whole body exercises do.

 

Try throwing 4 x 20kg plates on a barbell and doing 4 sets of 8 rep deep squats. Then throw 6 x 20 kg plates on the bar and do the same sets of deadlifts straight after. Finish off with 100kg bench press to failure (in my case, unfortunately it's not many) 

 

Do all this within a 1hr slot. You'll soon see just how elevated heart rate one's heart rate can get.

 

This kind of compound training hits your cardiac and CNS systems at the same time. Testosterone production is increased. Your core is strengthened. Balance is improved. Bone density is improved. Muscle loss is reversed. In my early sixties, I look and feel good when I walk out of the gym after this session 3 times a week. 

 

So yes, I do think I will live longer than if I was sitting on the couch drinking beer, eating potato chips and watching Animal Kingdom on Netflix.      

[thairastawoman]

6 hours ago, Inala said:

It really depends on what type of weightlifting you're doing. The isolation exercises used by bodybuilders to target smaller muscles do not generally elevate your heart rate. The compound type whole body exercises do.

 

Try throwing 4 x 20kg plates on a barbell and doing 4 sets of 8 rep deep squats. Then throw 6 x 20 kg plates on the bar and do the same sets of deadlifts straight after. Finish off with 100kg bench press to failure (in my case, unfortunately it's not many) 

 

Do all this within a 1hr slot. You'll soon see just how elevated heart rate one's heart rate can get.

 

This kind of compound training hits your cardiac and CNS systems at the same time. Testosterone production is increased. Your core is strengthened. Balance is improved. Bone density is improved. Muscle loss is reversed. In my early sixties, I look and feel good when I walk out of the gym after this session 3 times a week. 

 

So yes, I do think I will live longer than if I was sitting on the couch drinking beer, eating potato chips and watching Animal Kingdom on Netflix.      

 

so you must be right, bodybuilders do not need cardia as the rest of the population !

so funny people around here...

 

 

[Inala]

30 minutes ago, thairastawoman said:

 

so you must be right, bodybuilders do not need cardia as the rest of the population !

so funny people around here...

 

 

You misunderstood. Compound type exercises give you a cardio workout at the same time as a strength workout.

[robblok]

On 8/1/2021 at 1:48 PM, 2009 said:

Yeah, I lifted when I was younger. I was avid about the gym. Was there most days. The results were so slow. Maybe it is my body type. Just little point from my experience.

 

However, yoga and stretching - I like! As well as cardio. The results are relatively quick and the benefits obvious (healthy organs from cardio and better posture from yoga).

 

But lifting? I don't get it. It is good for the metabolism (burning calories while at rest), but other than that I don't see the point.

 

 

 

 

When i first started out lifting progress was not that fast either but I was 16 or so. No internet forums with good information just bro science and stupid muscle mags. When the internet made its entrance and real forums started then things became a lot more clear and progress was faster.

 

Wish i knew back then what i know now. I was the average stupid lifter not doing squats as they were deemed dangerous by the gym instructors. 

 

Some people like lifting others don't point of lifting is to get more muscles and more burn (limited though) Also helps for a good core.

 

You touched on bodytype, for some progress is slow for others its a lot faster. I now train with a young SG guy and i must say the guy is super lean. But he has a problem adding muscle. Not because of lack of effort in training as he gives it all. His problem is eating. People forget that for the natural leaner guys if they want extra muscle they need to eat more and its hard for some of them.

 

 

[robblok]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:59 PM, Inala said:

You misunderstood. Compound type exercises give you a cardio workout at the same time as a strength workout.

Sure i mean when im doing deadlifts and squats im panting like a lil girl. So sure compound exercises give you a cardio workout too. Though its never wrong (even beneficial) to add some cardio too. 

[robblok]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:13 AM, Inala said:

It really depends on what type of weightlifting you're doing. The isolation exercises used by bodybuilders to target smaller muscles do not generally elevate your heart rate. The compound type whole body exercises do.

 

Try throwing 4 x 20kg plates on a barbell and doing 4 sets of 8 rep deep squats. Then throw 6 x 20 kg plates on the bar and do the same sets of deadlifts straight after. Finish off with 100kg bench press to failure (in my case, unfortunately it's not many) 

 

Do all this within a 1hr slot. You'll soon see just how elevated heart rate one's heart rate can get.

 

This kind of compound training hits your cardiac and CNS systems at the same time. Testosterone production is increased. Your core is strengthened. Balance is improved. Bone density is improved. Muscle loss is reversed. In my early sixties, I look and feel good when I walk out of the gym after this session 3 times a week. 

 

So yes, I do think I will live longer than if I was sitting on the couch drinking beer, eating potato chips and watching Animal Kingdom on Netflix.      

Basically that is how i train, start off with deadlifts 3 sets of 8 reps with around 170-180-190kg (trap bar deadlift so easier then conventional deadlift also safer IMHO)(on heavy days but i have lower days too to recover). Then 3 sets of squats 100+ kg depending a bit on how intense the deadlift was. Its usually my lower back that limits me then.

After that some bench-press (far less heavy on the cardio vascular system then the deadlifts and squats. Bench press i start of at a weight that can help me warm up a bit. Only the last 2 sets of the 4 are work sets. up to 125 kg. So my chest is stronger.

 

That is what you get from focusing on chest before i learned the benefits of squat and deadlifts. Then i do some rows or lat pull down and for shoulders landmines (relatively safe shoulder exercise) then some biceps and triceps if i still got some power left.

 

Doing full body like that now 3 times a week as its easy as i train with others who sometimes skip sessions. If i were to do a bro split or a push pull the training would go wrong for those that skip sessions. So for now stuck on full body.

 

Soon when my cable pull will arrive ill add stuff like face pulls good for shoulder health. I might even go back to a push pull split to change it up.

 

Not that expect much (if any) muscle gain, its just maintenance for me. Sometimes my weights go down sometimes up but they will not get past certain levels. After many years of training you get close to what you can do. Plus no need to get bigger or stronger.

 

Doing some cardio too not as much or consistent. Either rowing or the assault bike. But if money was no object id buy a step machine but at 200k its a bit too much.I loved the stair climber in the gym was great could zone out was heavy enough. 

 

For me its always hard to find a cardio exercise that i like.

 

In the end its all about doing something you like. 

 

[Inala]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:40 PM, robblok said:

Just keep on lifting, constancy works best. 

 

I recently got back after a couple of months of not lifting. Easy to get back in the game. My home gym has now moved from my old home to my new. 

 

Doing a full body kind of training 3 days a week. 

 

Squats 3 x 8

Deadlifts 3 x 8

Bench press 4 x 8 -10

Military press  4 x 8 - 10

One arm rows 4 x 8

Triceps and biceps 

Abs

 

Now going to add rowing on the rowing machine on the non lifting days. Its amazing how fast it all comes back. 

 

Maybe after 2 months of full body ill be doing split again or something else.

 

Bought a special weight lifting tracker

https://www.thisisbeast.com/en

 

Will start using it once it arrives and after my 2 months of full body. I want to see what velocity training can do plus its one of the few trackers that works good for weightlifting.

That's a decent workout! Do you do all 8 of those exercises on each of the 3 days? I'm lucky to get through the first 3 in one session and feel quite exhausted after. But I do have quite a long rest period between them, the squats in particular, and this seems to lengthen the time for the top 3 exercises to about an hour each session. I do 4 sets for each.  

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, Inala said:

That's a decent workout! Do you do all 8 of those exercises on each of the 3 days? I'm lucky to get through the first 3 in one session and feel quite exhausted after. But I do have quite a long rest period between them, the squats in particular, and this seems to lengthen the time for the top 3 exercises to about an hour each session. I do 4 sets for each.  

Yes I do all 8 of those each of the 3 days. Your right the first 2-3 are the heaviest but once those are done it gets better.  I usually train 1.5 hours or so. It took some time to build up the capacity to do that full session. Though I have days that i go a bit lighter to recover as its a lot of volume. But it seems to work.