Explainer: Can anything stop Trump from pardoning his family or even himself?

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Another member who doesn't understand the difference between civil cases and criminal ones. I hope you're never sued in a civil matter and go out and hire a criminal defense lawyer ????????????

A case is a case.  It indicates a law was broken.  I fully understand this, but unlike you, don't try to provide shade for Trump.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The op and replies concern whether Trump can pardon himself. By definition, this refers to federal crimes, not state ones, so mention of state level investigations would be superfluous. 

In that case the Mueller investigation. The report specifically said Trump not exonerated on charges of obstruction of justice. The investigation has been concluded but charges could still be brought come jan 21, 2021.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

So you understand the difference between criminal charges and civil lawsuits? Did you see where I referenced criminal charges...or was that filtered out by your <deleted> tinged glasses? Do you also understand we are talking about Trump's actions during his 4 years in office?

Defending Trump here is simply appalling.

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

In that case the Mueller investigation. The report specifically said Trump not exonerated on charges of obstruction of justice. The investigation has been concluded but charges could still be brought come jan 21, 2021.

Trump wasn't exonerated or charged in the Mueller investigation...so in effect it was a big nothingburger (except a waste of 40M of taxpayers' money). No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Trump wasn't exonerated or charged in the Mueller investigation...so in effect it was a big nothingburger (except a waste of 40M of taxpayers' money). No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired.

"No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired."

Nonsense, he cab still be charged for that.

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

"No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired."

Nonsense, he cab still be charged for that.

I was referring to Mueller and his office bringing charges. If a different federal district attorney office had evidence of Trump's obstruction of Congress and wanted to conduct their own separate investigation they can do so. 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I was referring to Mueller and his office bringing charges. If a different federal district attorney office had evidence of Trump's obstruction of Congress and wanted to conduct their own separate investigation they can do so. 

You made a blanket statement "No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired.", which is clearly wrong.

[Lacessit]

19 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

As it is apparent you don't even have a redumentiary understanding of the US legal system, either in theory or practice, I will no longer engage with you on the subject as it's not a productive back and forth. Don't take it personally, not everyone has been to law school.

Neither have you, given your rudimentary grasp of the English language.

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Trump wasn't exonerated or charged in the Mueller investigation...so in effect it was a big nothingburger (except a waste of 40M of taxpayers' money). No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired.

A nothingburger? He wasn't exonerated. And Mueller specifically said he compiled all this evidence while it was fresh in order to preserve it for possible future use.

And your point about Trump not being charged is valueless since according to Justice Dept. policy a sitting President can't be indicted.

[KhunFred]

He can't pardon himself but any pardons are only applicable to Federal charges. Most of the charges against Trump himself are state charges.

[natway09]

Any case that has been brought before him already he can pardon himself before leaving.

I heard that there are over 100 cases pending not filed yet until he is back on the street when they will file at which time he must defend in the normal manner but being an Ex President doubt if will ever go to jail.

I agree, A crook & a conman but these type of people with the gall to rip off others are the most successful.

It just shows how crooked our systems of checks & balances are

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Any case that has been brought before him already he can pardon himself before leaving.

I heard that there are over 100 cases pending not filed yet until he is back on the street when they will file at which time he must defend in the normal manner but being an Ex President doubt if will ever go to jail.

I agree, A crook & a conman but these type of people with the gall to rip off others are the most successful.

It just shows how crooked our systems of checks & balances are

If,in fact, he can pardon himself, then, if precedent holds, he can also pardon himself for all crimes he may have committed. So pending cases will be moot. For federal offenses.

Edited December 25, 2020 by placeholder

[JulesMad]

7 hours ago, Walker88 said:

If a POTUS could pardon himself, President Joe Biden could execute 45 and his entire family, then simply say, "Pardon me".

I like that idea very much ????

[Jeffr2]

47 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I was referring to Mueller and his office bringing charges. If a different federal district attorney office had evidence of Trump's obstruction of Congress and wanted to conduct their own separate investigation they can do so. 

Trump has refused to turn over materials reading the Mueller investigation, like unredacted documents, grand jury testimony, etc.  But since you know the law better than anyone, you probably already knew this.  Kinda hard to press ahead with charges when the AG withholds information to help his boss.

 

The House judiciary committee had a case before the supreme court, but postponed it as they won't have enough time to try another impeachment.  Though as we can see here, it wouldn't be bad idea.

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/17/935914833/house-hints-it-may-drop-supreme-court-case-seeking-mueller-grand-jury-info

[Eric Loh]

No he can’t grant himself a pardon under the constitution. To grant is to bestow on another. That’s what can happen when he is an illiterate. 

 

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If,in fact, he can pardon himself, then, if precedent holds, he can also pardon himself for all crimes he may have committed. So pending cases will be moot.

I don't think he can pardon himself for future crimes?  Or can he?

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

I don't think he can pardon himself for future crimes?  Or can he?

No, he can't.

[Jeffr2]

Interesting read.  And yes, he's a criminal. @Pattaya Spotter should read this.  Or, just deflect to Hillary...err...Obama...err....Hunter...

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/65772/yes-trump-could-be-indicted-if-he-leaves-office-in-2021-but-is-that-likely/

Mueller compiled compelling evidence that the president engaged in conduct that likely could have been charged as obstruction of justice or witness tampering. However, the special counsel did not consider whether Trump should be indicted for obstructing the Russia investigation because he was bound by Department of Justice policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted. Similar calculations reportedly factored into the decision by federal prosecutors in New York to close an investigation into potential campaign finance crimes and related offenses that directly implicated the president. In that case, the publicly available evidence also does not exonerate the president. Instead, there is compelling evidence that the president personally committed up to eight federal criminal offenses while participating in and covering up a scheme to suppress negative stories about him from impacting the 2016 election.

[Pattaya Spotter]

50 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You made a blanket statement "No charges can now be brought from his investigation as his appointment as a special prosecutor by the Justice Department has expired.", which is clearly wrong.

Maybe re-read what I wrote (without huffing and puffing)..."no charges from HIS investigation...HIS appointment has expired." True statement. Another federal persecutor would have to conduct their own separate investigation. 

[Pattaya Spotter]

54 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Neither have you, given your rudimentary grasp of the English language.

The spelling bees are out in force today...no actual arguments to contribute, however.

[scorecard]

14 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I don't think he can pardon himself for future crimes?  Or can he?

Surely that would be well outside the reasons why any country has laws which are intended to provide justice and fair & balanced justice.

Edited December 25, 2020 by scorecard

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Interesting read.  And yes, he's a criminal. @Pattaya Spotter should read this.  Or, just deflect to Hillary...err...Obama...err....Hunter...

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/65772/yes-trump-could-be-indicted-if-he-leaves-office-in-2021-but-is-that-likely/

Mueller compiled compelling evidence that the president engaged in conduct that likely could have been charged as obstruction of justice or witness tampering. However, the special counsel did not consider whether Trump should be indicted for obstructing the Russia investigation because he was bound by Department of Justice policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted. Similar calculations reportedly factored into the decision by federal prosecutors in New York to close an investigation into potential campaign finance crimes and related offenses that directly implicated the president. In that case, the publicly available evidence also does not exonerate the president. Instead, there is compelling evidence that the president personally committed up to eight federal criminal offenses while participating in and covering up a scheme to suppress negative stories about him from impacting the 2016 election.

"However, the special counsel did not consider whether Trump should be indicted for obstructing the Russia investigation because he was bound by Department of Justice policy stating that a sitting president cannot be indicted."

 

Then surely there's a case to say that there should not be such laws ... if the law follows the important principle that everybody / every citizen is equal under the law.

[Jeffr2]

15 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Surely that would be well outside the reasons why any country has laws which are intended to provide justice and fair & balanced justice.

Unless you are a Trump supporter and living in an alternate reality and believing in alternative facts.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Who said it did...just giving an example of a real ongoing federal criminal investigation...not the phantom ones keep being referenced to regarding President Trump. You seem a bit defensive of Coke Boy.

You seem delusional about Trump and his crimes.

Edited December 25, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Maybe re-read what I wrote (without huffing and puffing)..."no charges from HIS investigation...HIS appointment has expired." True statement. Another federal persecutor would have to conduct their own separate investigation. 

Another prosecutor can still use Muller's investigation.

 

You're wrong, plain and simple, for me end of.

[moogradod]

There is an underlying even bigger question if you cut the headline after the word "Trump".

 

Is there no mechanism in place to stop a president if he is or is becoming apparently insane to prevent things like playing with his big, well functioning red nuke button just out of curiosity how big the badda boom might be ?

 

Every human being may become impaired mentally. What is going to stop the POTUS in such a case ? Or did they not foresee anything in this case because it has just been unthinkable that someone with severe but hidden mental impairments may be elected or become sick anytime later ?

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, moogradod said:

There is an underlying even bigger question if you cut the headline after the word "Trump".

 

Is there no mechanism in place to stop a president if he is or is becoming apparently insane to prevent things like playing with his big, well functioning red nuke button just out of curiosity how big the badda boom might be ?

 

Every human being may become impaired mentally. What is going to stop the POTUS in such a case ? Or did they not foresee anything in this case because it has just been unthinkable that someone with severe but hidden mental impairments may be elected or become sick anytime later ?

"Is there no mechanism in place to stop a president if he is or is becoming apparently insane"

There is, but Congress has refused to act. Article 25.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Edited December 25, 2020 by stevenl

[Pattaya Spotter]

56 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You seem delusional about Trump and his crimes.

"Crimes"...has the President been charged with any crimes...please get me some presidential crimes ????????????

[Pattaya Spotter]

35 minutes ago, moogradod said:

There is an underlying even bigger question if you cut the headline after the word "Trump".

 

Is there no mechanism in place to stop a president if he is or is becoming apparently insane to prevent things like playing with his big, well functioning red nuke button just out of curiosity how big the badda boom might be ?

 

Every human being may become impaired mentally. What is going to stop the POTUS in such a case ? Or did they not foresee anything in this case because it has just been unthinkable that someone with severe but hidden mental impairments may be elected or become sick anytime later ?

There isn't a red button in a drawer of the Resolute Desk that when pressed sends all the nukes hither and yonder. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

"Crimes"...has the President been charged with any crimes...please get me some presidential crimes ????????????

Coming soon mate. Very likely 2 devastating investigations into campaign finance violation and obstruction of justice that Muller uncovered in his Russia 2016 probe. The good news keep coming that Biden will not interfere with DOJ investigations even if it is former President. Isn't that great news for justice.