BBC says obtained full copy of post-Brexit trade deal

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

 

Quote

 

it's EEA membership without the advantages of being part of the single market      

And without having any control whatsoever over that big power bloc on your doorsteps. So, without having fully understood the details yet, and considering that Brexit would always have been a lose-lose situation, it looks like a decent outcome. We’ll be able to drive European integration further and faster without the UK, grab some pieces from the financial services industry, while having protected the single market from cherry-picking and having prevented tariffs on goods.

 

Needless to say, this won’t be the end. Brexit is an illusion and impossibility; the entanglements and integration of European people and trade is reality and nothing a referendum can remove. We are in for endless discussions and negotiations, and I’m soon expecting the first Brexiteers to moan and rebel when they’ve read the fine print. At least Nigel Farage will forever have a job. 
 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[david555]

18 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

 

And without having any control whatsoever over that big power bloc on your doorsteps. So, without having fully understood the details yet, and considering that Brexit would always have been a lose-lose situation, it looks like a decent outcome. We’ll be able to drive European integration further and faster without the UK, grab some pieces from the financial services industry, while having protected the single market from cherry-picking and having prevented tariffs on goods.

 

Needless to say, this won’t be the end. Brexit is an illusion and impossibility; the entanglements and integration of European people and trade is reality and nothing a referendum can remove. We are in for endless discussions and negotiations, and I’m soon expecting the first Brexiteers to moan and rebel when they’ve read the fine print. 

The first one ....deal was just  underway .....

 

Brexit news: Brexiteer demands ‘exit clause’ to deal UK can trigger without EU | UK | News | Express.co.uk

Brexiteer demands deal ‘exit clause’ UK can trigger without EU approval - SELL-OUT fears

BREXITEER Sir John Redwood has demanded an "exit clause" to any Brexit trade deal clinched with Brussels as fears of a sell-out soar.

 

By CIARAN MCGRATH

PUBLISHED: 06:53, Thu, Dec 24, 2020 | UPDATED: 09:36, Thu, Dec 24, 2020

 

A Brexit trade deal between the UK and the EU is within reach as both sides neared agreement last night. But as both sides closed in on securing a deal, some warned the Prime Minister may have given up on some of his strict red lines to get an agreement over the line.

 

Now, a leading Brexiteer has demanded an "exit clause" from the deal.

Sir John Redwood, a member of the Eurosceptic European Research Group (ERG) wrote on Twitter: "Any UK/EU Agreement must put us in full control of our laws, and needs an exit clause we can use without EU permission."

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by david555

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

You Brits have a pretty high opinion of yourself. The EU will just go on without you guys. Not having you does not mean we crumble. You guys are not special your actually in decline as a country. From an empire to ... who knows if the Scots take back control and watch the UK crumble ????

Dream on mush every country in the mafia EU learns to speak English, whys that ?...????. because its the only way forward. 

Norway, Switzerland didn't join nor should of England joined.

 

The following are not in the EU either for much the same reasons maybe.

Albania,  Andorra,  Armenia,  Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Iceland. ????

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Dream on mush every country in the mafia EU learns to speak English, whys that ?...

Right, because the most economically important country in the world for most of the last 100 years has been the UK? Get over yourself.

[Opl]

4 hours ago, tebee said:

 

Of course, not, he got the simplified version, written in crayon, with lots of pretty pictures......

+ written diagonally

[partington]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Dream on mush every country in the mafia EU learns to speak English, whys that ?...????. because its the only way forward. 

 

???????? Ahem! Best example of delusional thinking ever. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by partington

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Dream on mush every country in the mafia EU learns to speak English, whys that ?...????. because its the only way forward. 

 

You don't want to tell us that you are an English-speaking Brit, do you?

Edited December 26, 2020 by Susco

[Baerboxer]

21 hours ago, robblok said:

 

There is a clear commitment not to lower standards on the environment, workers' rights and climate change from those that currently exist and mechanisms to enforce them, the BBC reported.

 

However, it added that there is also a mutual right to "rebalance" the agreement if there are "significant divergences" in the future capable of "impacting trade".

 

Seems the Brexit die hards on the forum did not get their wish the UK needs to keep up their standards and can't diverge easily. If the EU later has better standards new negotiations can be done so in the end the UK will have to keep following the EU its standards to keep access. Something the die hards here hated. Seems BJ has given in. 

 

Happy that there is a deal and it will help both sides.

 

You assume, as often, that the EU has much higher standards. IME, having worked in several EU countries, for British, American and French businesses, that isn't the case.

 

Certain countries aren't as bothered about adhering to EU rules and some standards are implemented very uniquely with some interesting interpretations. 

 

The climate change lobby is very strong in the UK, as is UK legislation on consumer rights, sales of goods and services, quality, health and safety etc etc. There is no suggestion that will be changed. And any government trying to do so would likely get a shock at election time.

 

This myth and rumor of low cost cutting business avoiding all rules, tax avoidance (like Luxembourg and Ireland) for businesses etc etc is just conspiracy fuelled by German paranoia about actually having to compete, and those trying to paint Brexit as something it's not.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

14 hours ago, partington said:

???????? Ahem! Best example of delusional thinking ever. 

 

Yes, you probably are.

 

Do you have any evidence that English will be replaced as the EU common language? 

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and reply have been removed

[placeholder]

50 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yes, you probably are.

 

Do you have any evidence that English will be replaced as the EU common language? 

That isn't the point. Kwasaki asked why every country in the EU learns English. Even if that were entirely true,  I think the answer is obvious and it has nothing to do with the UK. Can you think of an English speaking nation that has been dominant nation in the world economy for most of the last 100 years?  Ya think maybe that's why English has become the language of international trade? Here's a hint I borrowed from Partington: 

Edited December 27, 2020 by placeholder

[david555]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

That isn't the point. Kwasaki asked why every country in the EU learns English. Even if that were entirely true,  I think the answer is obvious and it has nothing to do with the UK. Can you think of an English speaking nation that has been dominant nation in the world economy for most of the last 100 years?  Ya think maybe that's why English has become the language of international trade? Here's a hint I borrowed from Partington: 

I can confirm that English on my laptops and Windows is set in ...American English ....????

 

Thanks to Holywood and his western movies , as i never learned it in school as at  that time not in country school program ..3 Own country languages were the obligation !

 

BTW  i almost never get language gestapo remarks from Americans ...but HoHo ....! from those brexit bunch...( mostly when their arguments are absent in replies...????..)

 

Just showing which country promoted This language Worldwide ????

[robblok]

18 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You assume, as often, that the EU has much higher standards. IME, having worked in several EU countries, for British, American and French businesses, that isn't the case.

 

Certain countries aren't as bothered about adhering to EU rules and some standards are implemented very uniquely with some interesting interpretations. 

 

The climate change lobby is very strong in the UK, as is UK legislation on consumer rights, sales of goods and services, quality, health and safety etc etc. There is no suggestion that will be changed. And any government trying to do so would likely get a shock at election time.

 

This myth and rumor of low cost cutting business avoiding all rules, tax avoidance (like Luxembourg and Ireland) for businesses etc etc is just conspiracy fuelled by German paranoia about actually having to compete, and those trying to paint Brexit as something it's not.

 

 

If the UK had higher standards (and it might in some cases) it would not have made such a fuzz about standards. So your reply is a bit strange. Then again I had not expected any different from pro Brexit brigade. If you are intent on keeping your standards on par then there is never a problem. Why make a point out of it.

 

Its not conspiracy at all, its something that could happen, the Brits are not trustworthy. Look at how they breached international agreements with making those laws. So putting in a mechanism to prevent it is normal.

 

Also these things are in agreements with Canada and other countries too. Its standard. So why the Brits moan I don't know.

 

Anyway in the end BJ caved and agreed that is all that matters. I don't care who has the highest standards as long as they are not used for competition reasons im ok with it I like fair play. 

[luckyluke]

On 12/26/2020 at 6:21 PM, Loiner said:

The more they post, the more I am convinced we are well out of it and the EU will gradually disintegrate.

 

You are an honest zealot,

wishing the best for your country, the worst for the E.U.. 

[transam]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

If the UK had higher standards (and it might in some cases) it would not have made such a fuzz about standards. So your reply is a bit strange. Then again I had not expected any different from pro Brexit brigade. If you are intent on keeping your standards on par then there is never a problem. Why make a point out of it.

 

Its not conspiracy at all, its something that could happen, the Brits are not trustworthy. Look at how they breached international agreements with making those laws. So putting in a mechanism to prevent it is normal.

 

Also these things are in agreements with Canada and other countries too. Its standard. So why the Brits moan I don't know.

 

Anyway in the end BJ caved and agreed that is all that matters. I don't care who has the highest standards as long as they are not used for competition reasons im ok with it I like fair play. 

Bj caved.....????......You still don't understand negotiations.????

 

 You also keep referring to the UK democratic winning voters as Brexiteers, when in fact it was the UK voting populace who chose their direction.

"The Brits are not trustworthy", that is rather a broad statement, are you saying I am not trustworthy, or are you saying the UK PM is not trustworthy. ?

Anyhoooo, it is bon voyage to the EU, and from the posts I have read here, it was the right decision..

 

Though I am happy for you, it must feel rewarding to know you are bolstering those many countries you are shackled too....

 

 

[luckyluke]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

Anyhoooo, it is bon voyage to the EU, and from the posts I have read here, it was the right decision.

Only in a few years we will know if it was the right decision.

I think the hardest part will be to convince the 48%, they were wrong.

I think the only way will be, with concrete positive changes in the daily life of all the Britons.

There is a huge amount of money available ( previous E.U. contribution ) to make that feasible.

[Loiner]

7 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

You are an honest zealot,

wishing the best for your country, the worst for the E.U.. 

I make no bones about it. For me, the continued anti-Brexit venom of europosters simply confirms it as right. 

[Loiner]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Only in a few years we will know if it was the right decision.

I think the hardest part will be to convince the 48%, they were wrong.

I think the only way will be, with concrete positive changes in the daily life of all the Britons.

There is a huge amount of money available ( previous E.U. contribution ) to make that feasible.

We have known for the last four+ years that it was the right decision, because that’s what the majority voted for. 

Convincing the 48% is not necessary because they are irrelevant and it is now done.

Concrete positive changes start from Friday. Even the Remainers will eventually see it in their daily life. Even they are probably more aware than the Belgian in the street. 

Large amounts of money are already being budgeted to ensure the U.K. success. 

[473geo]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Only in a few years we will know if it was the right decision.

I think the hardest part will be to convince the 48%, they were wrong.

I think the only way will be, with concrete positive changes in the daily life of all the Britons.

There is a huge amount of money available ( previous E.U. contribution ) to make that feasible.

Interesting comment, if life was so good in the EU then surely no real change is required for the remainers after all their main fear appears to lower quality.

If you are further suggesting radical improvement not forthcoming while in the Union is required, that alone is surely justification.

[Pilotman]

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Only in a few years we will know if it was the right decision.

I think the hardest part will be to convince the 48%, they were wrong.

I think the only way will be, with concrete positive changes in the daily life of all the Britons.

There is a huge amount of money available ( previous E.U. contribution ) to make that feasible.

why would anyone try to convince the 48%, it's a waste of time and energy.  I would say, only once, It's done, (thank goodness) live with it, just stop whining. 

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 6:38 PM, tebee said:

the agreement is all things to all men.

 

We have no tariffs. We have the right to make our own laws - but as soon as we make one the EU doesn't like we no longer have free trade.

 

We are not bound by the ECJ. But we are bound by 3 man adjudication panels and guess who will appoint the adjudicators?

 

We have some fishing control back. but unless we start liking squid and mackerel we are still under the EU's thumb as they are our main market and can make it hard to export it.

 

We don't have financial equivalence, so the EU can slowly squeeze the city of London, but no one likes bankers so who cares ?   

 

I think it's a very cleverly written agreement, one that both sides can sell as a win to their people.

 

We still have all the problems caused by leaving the customs union.

 

it's EEA membership without the advantages of being part of the single market      

You have no tariffs on trades, you don't have a deal on services which is 80% of the total value. Your financial services will be suffering a lot.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

why would anyone try to convince the 48%, it's a waste of time and energy.  I would say, only once, It's done, (thank goodness) live with it, just stop whining. 

 

If 48 % of the population is not agree with the other 52, it should be a concern for the government in place.

 

The government has 2 possibilities :

 

Vae Victis / Woe to the vanquished. 

 

May be fair enough when the ones with a different opinion represent 4,8 %,  not when 48 %.

 

 

or

 

Instore  serenity between the people, here convincing the 48 % that they were wrong.

Words won't be good enough, concrete elements will be necessary.

 

There is one very important particular element with Brexit : both parties ( Leavers and Remainers ) were/are convinced their choice is the best for the future of their country.

For both parties this isn't about a personal victory, but the welfare of all.

 

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

If 48 % of the population is not agree with the other 52, it should be a concern for the government in place.

 

The government has 2 possibilities :

 

Vae Victis / Woe to the vanquished. 

 

May be fair enough when the ones with a different opinion represent 4,8 %,  not when 48 %.

 

 

or

 

Instore  serenity between the people, here convincing the 48 % that they were wrong.

Words won't be good enough, concrete elements will be necessary.

 

There is one very important particular element with Brexit : both parties ( Leavers and Remainers ) were/are convinced their choice is the best for the future of their country.

For both parties this isn't about a personal victory, but the welfare of all.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone needs to do anything. Brexit was an in or out vote, we are out, we now just get on with it.

At least there was a people's vote, unlike being told to go to war, which has happened in the past.....

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't think anyone needs to do anything. 

 

We have a different opinion here, but I respect yours.

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

Unless I misunderstood, your opinion is : nothing has to be done, the 52 % won.

 

Mine : the government in place has to bring serenity between the 52 and 48 % of its population, the best way for this, in my opinion, is to convince with facts that the 48% were wrong.

Edited December 28, 2020 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[englishoak]

Out and a deal...as predicted.

 

And thats that... the future is now ours to make... .. suits me just fine. 

[transam]

56 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

Unless I misunderstood, your opinion is : nothing has to be done, the 52 % won.

 

Mine : the government in place has to bring serenity between the 52 and 48 % of its population, the best way for this, in my opinion, is to convince with facts that the 48% were wrong.

????...........So did that work here over the last 4+ years..............????..........?

Edited December 28, 2020 by onthedarkside
off topic comment removed

[luckyluke]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

????...........So did that work here over the last 4+ years..............????..........?

I see here that the 

 

Leavers go on and on with " We won " usually followed with " Get use to it"

" Everything will be super fine ".

 

Remainers not disputing the results of the Referendum, but going on and on with mentioning it was/is a bad idea, it will not benefit the U.K., usually followed with elements they are convinced proving their opinion.

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

Remainers not disputing the results of the Referendum

More of the man in the street being oblivious to everything going on around him? There are still posts regularly being made about the referendum result and percentage of the total population.

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Loiner said:

More of the man in the street being oblivious to everything going on around him? There are still posts regularly being made about the referendum result and percentage of the total population.

In my opinion they dispute the % of people who voted for Leave, not the result of the Referendum.

In the U.S.A. topics there are people disputing the win of Mr. Biden,

never saw such a thing with the Referendum.

I may have missed it of course.