Drinkers.. Do you ever worry about the state of your Liver?

[cyril sneer]

it's a lose lose situation

 

if you stop drinking boredom will eventually kill you

 

i've tried taking a year off it and the boredom, frustrations and cravings are still there

 

people talk about finding hobbies to do instead etc. but they are nothing but a chore which you find yourself pretending to like

 

if drink didn't cause weight gain I think i'd be dead already. happy new year anyway!

[Susco]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

I regularly drink 6 or more large bottles of beer,followed maybe by some red wine or G n T, absolutely not bothered by all the non drinkers pontificating about the evils of alcohol, I tell my Mrs that I retired he to have fun and enjoy myself in my retirement

 

If being an alcoholic is considered enjoying yourself, then we have different conceptions of what is having fun.

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, cyril sneer said:

...people talk about finding hobbies to do instead etc. but they are nothing but a chore which you find yourself pretending to like...

Sounds to me like people with little motivation or imagination who just can't be bothered.

[Dumbastheycome]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Is Milk Thistle Good for the Liver?

There’s conflicting research on the benefits of milk thistle for liver health. It may have protective effects on the liver, preventing damage. There’s some evidence that milk thistle can treat cirrhosis and chronic hepatitis, which can be caused by alcohol abuse, autoimmune disease, or viruses. But experts say that the evidence isn’t conclusive.

Some studies also show milk thistle may help people whose liver is damaged by industrial toxins, such as toluene and xylene.

 

There is not enough scientific data to say whether or not milk thistle can help liver problems. Get the facts on milk thistle for the liver

 

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/milk-thistle-benefits-and-side-effects#1

 

If you are already taking herbal remedies with questionable veracity as a prophylaxis for liver ailments, then you already have a problem (and it's not in your liver).

Is that last line  your own?  There is little  of genuine concern to indicate more than  advisory  caution with respect to  some allergic reactivity that is no more than for anything more extraordinary than Kiwi fruit !

There is reasonable evidence to indicate  it  actually is somewhat  effective as in claims about many  herbal or  natural items.

An extreme  example is  Manuka Honey from New Zealand which defies analytical explanation but which many times has been successful as a last resort  for negating deadly bacterial resistant infections.

Time after time traditional ancient  remedies have  been proven to have  justifiable  merit. Denigrating them is more often than not in the interest  of  such as  "Big Pharma"  who have derived and concentrated  effective  components  while  claiming  the "invention" or "creation" of them !

 

[Susco]

10 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Is that last line  your own?  There is little  of genuine concern to indicate more than  advisory  caution with respect to  some allergic reactivity that is no more than for anything more extraordinary than Kiwi fruit !

There is reasonable evidence to indicate  it  actually is somewhat  effective as in claims about many  herbal or  natural items.

An extreme  example is  Manuka Honey from New Zealand which defies analytical explanation but which many times has been successful as a last resort  for negating deadly bacterial resistant infections.

Time after time traditional ancient  remedies have  been proven to have  justifiable  merit. Denigrating them is more often than not in the interest  of  such as  "Big Pharma"  who have derived and concentrated  effective  components  while  claiming  the "invention" or "creation" of them !

 

 

I have done a lot of research on this in the past, not for alcohol but eventual use of oral steroids, and I have also talked about this with a doctor who is a good friend.

 

What I found is that liver damage is irreparable once it has occurred.

 

There are additives, like milk thistle and others, that can help in preventing damage or make it less likely.

 

Of course there are always the alternative medicine advocates that claim that big pharma is hiding things, but show me proof of many thousands of people that had their liver healed this way.

 

I'm sure someone will be here soon to claim that marijuana is the perfect medicine for liver damage

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

30 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Is Milk Thistle Good for the Liver?

There’s conflicting research on the benefits of milk thistle for liver health. It may have protective effects on the liver, preventing damage. There’s some evidence that milk thistle can treat cirrhosis and chronic hepatitis, which can be caused by alcohol abuse, autoimmune disease, or viruses. But experts say that the evidence isn’t conclusive.

Some studies also show milk thistle may help people whose liver is damaged by industrial toxins, such as toluene and xylene.

 

There is not enough scientific data to say whether or not milk thistle can help liver problems. Get the facts on milk thistle for the liver

 

https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/milk-thistle-benefits-and-side-effects#1

 

If you are already taking herbal remedies with questionable veracity as a prophylaxis for liver ailments, then you already have a problem (and it's not in your liver).

I'll enjoy my life my way if you don't mind  you lead yours your way, I don't need you or anyone else to dictate how I should lead my life, as for milk thistle, I know many many people that take this herbal supplement on a daily basis, poo poo it all you want mate, next you'll be telling us that Ginseng & Garlic are a waste of time, anything else you would like to the list of quackery ?? Maybe Cod liver oil or iron tablets, vitamin C, Magnesium a myriad of potentially helpful herbs, but the great all seeing............. says No, bad for you, not proven, don't touch. 

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, Susco said:

 

I have done a lot of research on this in the past, not for alcohol but eventual use of oral steroids, and I have also talked about this with a doctor who is a good friend.

 

What I found is that liver damage is irreparable once it has occurred.

 

There are additives, like milk thistle and others, that can help in preventing damage or make it less likely.

 

Of course there are always the alternative medicine advocates that claim that big pharma is hiding things, but show me proof of many thousands of people that had their liver healed this way.

 

I'm sure someone will be here soon to claim that marijuana is the perfect medicine for liver damage

 

 

So can you show  me a "Big Pharma" type of  alternative  that does better?  There lies the  crux of  such debate.

 

[Susco]

1 minute ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So can you show  me a "Big Pharma" type of  alternative  that does better?  There lies the  crux of  such debate.

 

I guess you missed this crucial line in my post

 

liver damage is irreparable once it has occurred.

[Dumbastheycome]

Just now, Susco said:

I guess you missed this crucial line in my post

 

liver damage is irreparable once it has occurred.

Perhaps so in conventional medical opinion. However that does  not  refute  some claims that  herbal/natural products  can at  least reduce risk potential damage  initially that  "conventional "  alternatives  do not or  can not due to  inconclusive  evidence. Is that  a good  reason  to  decry or  refute ?

 

[NanLaew]

27 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Is that last line  your own? 

 

Yes. That's why I added it after the citation and the link.

 

I see it as the same as someone "worrying" about blood pressure and diabetes and other ailments that increase with age and bad diets but only inasmuch as taking all sorts of medication or weeds or berries to counteract these effects instead of exercising more and choosing healthier things to eat.

 

For the OP, if honestly raising concerns about the effects of his long-term heavy drinking, simple moderation is free and has no questionable, medical side-effects.

[Muzzique]

The main issue for heavy drinkers is developing a fatty liver which is reversible if you stop drinking. However continuing to drink with a fatty liver leads to fibrosis and then cirrhosis.

I was diagnosed with a slightly fatty liver during a routine full body check and I stopped drinking for a year. My liver is fully recovered now.

 

Your liver is a remarkable organ and can recover and rebuild itself long as long as you give it a rest for a while. Just don't pound at it non stop without giving it time to repair itself.

 

If you're worried have a check up. 

 

[Susco]

2 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Perhaps so in conventional medical opinion. However that does  not  refute  some claims that  herbal/natural products  can at  least reduce risk potential damage  initially that  "conventional "  alternatives  do not or  can not due to  inconclusive  evidence.

 

That is also what I said in my post, you should try to read it again, that alternatives MAY reduce the risk of potential damage.

 

As for your claim that there is inconclusive evidence that conventional medicines can reduce the risk, where is your irrefutable evidence that natural products are effective?

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

, I tell my Mrs that I retired he to have fun and enjoy myself in my retirement & maybe last 10 years or so, that was in 2011,

Cool, you still have 3 more days. 
 

I drank everything until I was 32. Many nights I couldn’t remember how I got home, where my car was or what I had done, messed up a few times trying to pick up girls forgetting my girlfriend was there, people would tell me what I had done and I couldn’t remember it at all.

 

So have mostly stuck to beer since 32, about once or twice a year I forget my rule, usually because of peer group pressure. With a beer hangover after a decent lunch I am usually 99% recovered. Spirit hangovers sometimes take two days to get over now.
 

I do enjoy the feeling of whiskey drunk more than any other spirit. Not sure why that is.

 

i also found when I drink everyday the hangovers are mild, but if I don’t drink for a while the hangover is worse. 
 

I don’t think beer is too bad for the liver. 

[Seeall]

1 hour ago, Golden Triangle said:

 

My other half was convinced I was Diabetic, so to quell her fears I went to a well known hospital and had a fasting blood test, not diabetic and all other results normal, no red flags anywhere.

did you beleive it?

[Dumbastheycome]

7 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

That is also what I said in my post, you should try to read it again, that alternatives MAY reduce the risk of potential damage.

 

As for your claim that there is inconclusive evidence that conventional medicines can reduce the risk, where is your irrefutable evidence that natural products are effective?

Did I claim there is "inconclusive" evidence? There is  some evidence  that claims for such as Milk Thistle  do have  efficacy  therefore  there is no cause  to  decry such claims.A simple example: https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/milk-thistle-benefits-and-side-effects#1

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Did I claim there is "inconclusive" evidence? There is  some evidence  that claims for such as Milk Thistle  do have  efficacy  therefore  there is no cause  to  decry such claims.A simple example: https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/milk-thistle-benefits-and-side-effects#1

 

There's a difference between those that can appreciate there may be valid claims as to its efficacy versus those that simply take it as an excuse to carry on getting bladdered.

[Dumbastheycome]

16 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

That is also what I said in my post, you should try to read it again, that alternatives MAY reduce the risk of potential damage.

 

As for your claim that there is inconclusive evidence that conventional medicines can reduce the risk, where is your irrefutable evidence that natural products are effective?

Or :https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/milk-thistle-benefits#TOC_TITLE_HDR_2

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

There's a difference between those that can appreciate there may be valid claims as to its efficacy versus those that simply take it as an excuse to carry on getting bladdered.

lol. True!

[Susco]

14 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Did I claim there is "inconclusive" evidence?

 

I don't know, maybe something got lost in translation because I'm not a native English speaker, but wasn't this your post?

 

36 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Perhaps so in conventional medical opinion. However that does  not  refute  some claims that  herbal/natural products  can at  least reduce risk potential damage  initially that  "conventional "  alternatives  do not or  can not due to  inconclusive  evidence.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

14 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

I don't know, maybe something got lost in translation because I'm not a native English speaker, but wasn't this your post?

 

 

Ok. I understand that  my wording  lead to show to some  confusion. My intention was to say there is no evidence to disprove  Milk Thistle is  ineffective . There is  some evidence that it  is  effective to some degree.

Modern  conventional medical science has a problem with not being able to identify specific  components  of effectiveness and so  tends  to  decry significance.

 

[Susco]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Ok. I understand that  my wording  lead to show to some  confusion. My intention was to say there is no evidence to disprove  Milk Thistle is  ineffective . There is  some evidence that it  is  effective to some degree.

Modern  conventional medical science has a problem with not being able to identify specific  components  of effectiveness and so  tends  to  decry significance.

 

 

Ok now try to go back to my first post on this subject and what I said.

 

What I found is that liver damage is irreparable once it has occurred.

 

There are additives, like milk thistle and others, that can help in preventing damage or make it less likely.

 

Then read your own link again

 

Is Milk Thistle Good for the Liver?

There’s conflicting research on the benefits of milk thistle for liver health. It may have protective effects on the liver, preventing damage. There’s some evidence that milk thistle can treat cirrhosis and chronic hepatitis, which can be caused by alcohol abuse, autoimmune disease, or viruses. But experts say that the evidence isn’t conclusive.

Some studies also show milk thistle may help people whose liver is damaged by industrial toxins, such as toluene and xylene.

There is not enough scientific data to say whether or not milk thistle can help liver problems.

 

Isn't what I said the same as what is said in your own link?

[Don Chance]

4 hours ago, fangless said:

A TV Doctor has spoken. I think the local Bar will have better medicine and advice!

Baclofen is used to treat pain and certain types of spasticity (muscle stiffness and tightness) from multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injuries, or other spinal cord diseases. Baclofen is in a class of medications called skeletal muscle relaxants. Baclofen acts on the spinal cord nerves and decreases the number and severity of muscle spasms caused by multiple sclerosis or spinal cord conditions. It also relieves pain and improves muscle movement.

Baclofen: MedlinePlus Drug Information

It has been repurposed to treat alcoholism with million of people successfully treated.

https://baclofentreatment.com/

 

Baclofen is a muscle relaxant but it has the coincidence of stimulation the area of the brain that desires alcohol when you take the right dose. So you will have no craving for alcohol, it is about 80mg per day taken 10mg per hour.

 

It will take 1-2 years for your liver to recover and at least 4 years to reset from alcohol addiction. Then you won't need the Baclofen anymore.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Don Chance

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

 

My other half was convinced I was Diabetic, so to quell her fears I went to a well known hospital and had a fasting blood test, not diabetic and all other results normal, no red flags anywhere.

You're a lucky man. Enjoy.

[Enfield]

15 hours ago, Liverpoolfan said:

a tad rough this morning..

it's got me thinking

I wonder what my Liver looks like now.

Having been a moderate to heavy drinker most of my life i'm willing to bet it's not in great shape.

However, most of the time I never give it a second thought.

Last night I put a fair amount of booze away but have only been partially hungover.

 

Do you lot who drink ever worry about the state of your Liver, heart stomach etc?

Also the throat, cancers are very common in heavy drinkers apparently. 

 

[Enfield]

Up to you . The medical evidence about alcohol is clear . It would be a miracle if your body had not already acquired alcohol related disease . You could easily have this checked out at any hospital . I see expats here all the time acting as though they are still on holiday . Drinking with buddies or alone most evenings and filling free time at home guzzling whatever they can .

I don’t preach about this or the need to avoid smoking as well . Consumers know the risks . You don’t need to ask about it here . It is clear already . The only issue is how far has the damage gone and what is now the prognosis . If you wish to carry on doing what you do / do it . Up to you ????

[Bender Rodriguez]

the time of reflection only comes for most, when they need a new one

[ChakaKhan]

I worked in bars for 20 yrs and had pretty much free access to booze...many hangovers and all bloated..

 

Messed up my lungs too from secondhand smoke before those laws came about.....

 

Amazing at how the body can heal itself if you stop putting junk in it....I did lose a few friends who drank tho..

 

I was reading about the evils of drinking, so I had no other choice to but give up reading ????  moderation is key

[TimBKK]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Why don't you go get a blood panel?

You may also be dehydrated.

It is not expensive Pattaya has a lab that will do it for 500 b results the same day.

But, for heavy drinkers it may not motivate them to stop anyway.

Good luck. Glad I do not have that need or addiction.

Which lab?  I like to check my vital and lipids every 4-6 months or so.

[bermondburi]

If you don't worry, you should. It will catch up with you at some point and it's a horrible way to go. 

 

The last ten years of my mother's life were not great which all started with cirrhosis. She died this year after developing oesophagical varices which we didn't know about. In the end she haemorrhaged and bled to death internally. 

 

There were some warning signs in hindsight but she was unwilling to go to the hospital because of the high corona caseloads there. I don't think it would have made any difference though because having read about it the only solution by that stage would have been a transplant, which they would have been unlikely to do due to her age, 74.

 

To the OP, I think the biggest thing is the fear of what to do with yourself if you're not drinking. The boredom etc. I was in a similar position. Regular drinker for many years. I work in Saudi now and by choice regularly go weeks or a couple of months at a time without drinking. Not because it's not available in Saudi. It is. But it's a personal choice. 

 

I have to say that when I'm not drinking I don't miss it at all. I enjoy waking up in the morning feeling sharp. I've got a good exercise routine and a busy social life that doesn't revolve around alcohol. Obviously that part is quite easy in Saudi, but maybe harder in Thailand. 

 

So I would say to try to cut down a bit. Have dry days alternating with wet days. Find some other activities you enjoy that don't require drinking. Even watching the football without drinking. It's still okay. Maybe some gentle exercise like cycling or taking the dog for a walk. You might surprise yourself and find that actually it's not that bad. And maybe even enjoy the change. 

 

I do have some experience of lifestyle changes, having drunk large amounts previously, and having been a big substance abuser. More than happy to help via pm. 

 

 

[Bogbrush]

If you have a concern that your drinking - past or present - has affected your health, then the first check is to ask your doctor who can immediately feel if your liver is swollen (fatty liver syndrome) and can confirm it with an ultrasound.

 

Following on, it’s advisable to have yearly blood work, particularly for the items I have encircled, all of which relate to liver health. If you can’t afford the full whack, then just ask for a Gamma (GGT) test, the results of which will be the best indicator as to the state of your liver.