U.S. CDC reports 330,901 total deaths from coronavirus

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Blaming Trump for Covid is like blaming FDR for WW2. 

 

Sure, FDR could have kept the USA out of the war, and all of Europe would be speaking German (or Russian, depending on which historian you believe) and Thailand would be a Japanese colony.

 

Trump could have shut down the economy, but millions more would be destitute and homeless.  I'm not a Trump fan at all, and will be happy to see the back end of him.  But blaming him for a pandemic doesn't serve the truth.

 

No!

It's not that simple.

It was never a black and white economy vs. the virus.

It's not about blame for the virus existing in the first place.

It's about the U.S. response which has arguably been the worst or among the worst in the entire world. Not what people expected from the USA.

Clearly the only real fundamental way to save the economy was to conquer the virus.

Mr. trump's leadership was completely incompetent and inadequate. He was clearly motivated only by his personal and political interests as opposed to the interests of the American people. 

Yes, that is why he lost.

 

Medical journal slams Trump for ‘incoherent’ COVID-19 response, calls on Americans to vote him out (fox5dc.com)

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Blaming Trump for Covid is like blaming FDR for WW2. 

 

Sure, FDR could have kept the USA out of the war, and all of Europe would be speaking German (or Russian, depending on which historian you believe) and Thailand would be a Japanese colony.

 

Trump could have shut down the economy, but millions more would be destitute and homeless.  I'm not a Trump fan at all, and will be happy to see the back end of him.  But blaming him for a pandemic doesn't serve the truth.

 

Please. What does shutting down the economy have to do with denigrating the wearing of masks? What does it have to do with hosting superspreading events? What does it have to do with refusing to use the law to compel companies to manufacture PPE equipment? Refusing to fund and coordinate a national testing program? There's so much more that could be brought up against him.

And your comparison to FDR is ludicrously inapt and inept. I don't think you could have chose a worse comparison. When the US went to war under FDR it was total war. No promises about how the war was going to end by Easter. As if by magic. Trump continually downplayed the severity of Covid. Remember when he accused Democrats of being engaged in a hoax because they were exaggerating the severity of the threat?

 

 

[tifino]

failed US response...hmmm:  if a country full of minions don't want to put a mask on - even a president can't make them

It is at State level, and then further down to Mayoral level to do any enforcing of the peoples to respond - sort of like enforcement of By Laws type of action... It is no different to around the planet; the only federal leaders with any direct powers over their flocks,  are those who run Politburos 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Over simplified on your part China is a country that as far as we know the virus occurred in nature it was NOT engineered by any one person from ANY country it happened to start infections in China it’s how it was handeled after it started that’s The issue trump failed epically in this he is a disgrace as a president he has through his ineptitude caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans that’s sadly fact it dident have to be this bad

 

Not my point at all - just jump on Trump then.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

failed US response...hmmm:  if a country full of minions don't want to put a mask on - even a president can't make them

It is at State level, and then further down to Mayoral level to do any enforcing of the peoples to respond - sort of like enforcement of By Laws type of action... It is no different to around the planet; the only federal leaders with any direct powers over their flocks,  are those who run Politburos 

No.

Mr. trump intentionally politicized wearing masks. 

He had about 40 percent of the population that followed him blindly.

Also he intentionally held super spreader mass rallies.

If he had been a good leader (rather than the worst president in American history) he could have easily led by both words and examples.

Instead he cynically thought his politicization of mask wearing would help him get reelected.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention?
To the trump fans, not wearing masks signals loyalty to him and wearing them signals opposition to him. Just how stupid is that? Mr. trump could have easily reversed that insanity but he never even tried, because he liked what had happened with politicization of mask wearing.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

failed US response...hmmm:  if a country full of minions don't want to put a mask on - even a president can't make them

It is at State level, and then further down to Mayoral level to do any enforcing of the peoples to respond - sort of like enforcement of By Laws type of action... It is no different to around the planet; the only federal leaders with any direct powers over their flocks,  are those who run Politburos 

Nonsense. Not only did Trump not try to make them, he actively denigrated their use. He turned what should have been a public health issue it into a political issue. And what stopped him from making mask wearing mandatory at his rallies? Not even at the indoor rallies did he enforce that. Not even at the White House. He defied the advice of his own White House Covid Advisory Council.

Edited December 31, 2020 by placeholder

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Nonsense. Not only did Trump not try to make them, he actively denigrated their use. He turned what should have been a public health issue it into a political issue.

Yes, indeed. 

But trump fans will continue to  try to gaslight people and put on an act that it didn't really go down that way. It did. We all saw it. Mr. trump has an ocean of American blood on his hands. No, not all the Covid-19 deaths but a significant percentage of them. Never forget. Never forgive.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

No.

Mr. trump intentionally politicized wearing masks. 

He had about 40 percent of the population that followed him blindly.

Also he intentionally held super spreader mass rallies.

If he had been a good leader (rather than the worst president in American history) he could have easily led by both words and examples.

Instead he cynically thought his politicization of mask wearing would help him get reelected.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention?
To the trump fans, not wearing masks signals loyalty to him and wearing them signals opposition to him. Just how stupid is that? But that's what happened.

Louisiana  congressman elect Luke Letlow. regardless of what  he privately thought, and you don't make it to the US congress by being stupid, towed the trump line . not wearing masks, attending rallies and election events without social distancing and paid the price now dead at 41 years old and with no pre existing medical conditions. 

He leaves behind a wife and two small children. His selfish behaviour will deprive his children of a father for the rest of their lives. IMO he got what he deserved, but not his wife and Children. So very sad, 

 

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Louisiana  congressman elect Luke Letlow. regardless of what  he privately thought, and you don't make it to the US congress by being stupid, towed the trump line . not wearing masks, attending rallies and election events without social distancing and paid the price now dead at 41 years old and with no pre existing medical conditions. 

He leaves behind a wife and two small children. His selfish behaviour will deprive his children of a father for the rest of their lives. IMO he got what he deserved, but not his wife and Children. So very sad, 

 

A lot of these same republicans who were calling the pandemic a hoax are jumping the queue to get a vaccine shot.  Marco Rubio for example.  If the pandemic is a hoax or way overblown then why are they falling all over themselves to jump the line and get a vaccine?

Edited December 31, 2020 by shdmn

[Sujo]

14 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Good to know that China is entirely blameless then. Great.

Well the idiots that support trump are also partly to blame, so its not all trumps fault.

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Blaming Trump for Covid is like blaming FDR for WW2. 

 

Sure, FDR could have kept the USA out of the war, and all of Europe would be speaking German (or Russian, depending on which historian you believe) and Thailand would be a Japanese colony.

 

Trump could have shut down the economy, but millions more would be destitute and homeless.  I'm not a Trump fan at all, and will be happy to see the back end of him.  But blaming him for a pandemic doesn't serve the truth.

 

Impossible to compare FDR's response to WW2 to Trump's CV19 failure.  FDR did the right thing.  Trump and his enablers lied about the virus, admitted it on tape, and are still not showing leadership.  Unless you call playing golf while almost 4,000 people died leadership.  Come on.  Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands.  That is the truth.

[Jeffr2]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Over simplified. You have not considered the climates and social behaviour patterns of different countries/peoples for a start.

Talk about social behaviors....

 

https://www.wbez.org/stories/study-viewers-of-a-fox-news-host-who-downplayed-the-pandemic-were-more-likely-to-get-covid-19/83dffd03-6013-47c8-b012-0b1cc5377e18

Study Finds More COVID-19 Cases Among Viewers Of Fox News Host Who Downplayed The Pandemic

[bwpage3]

Complete BS.

 

Upon reviewing the official death certificates, the CDC has stated 90+% have died from at least 2 comorbidity's not from Covid alone.

 

The comorbidity's are all listed on the CDC website.

 

A newly elected US Representative just died and all the news reported it was from Covid. When the facts came out, he died from a heart attack not related to Covid but they still want to blame it was Covid.

 

 

 

[teacherclaire]

The "Democrat's New Hoax": TOTAL DEATHS

341,199

+3,764 New Deaths

 

Those are numbers that are so scary, and Trump's rallies must have caused many deaths.

 

Nobody blames China for it. Is it possible that the Pentagon knows a lot more than what they do not tell us, perhaps involvement in trying to find a biological weapon?

 

The fact is that Trump didn't take the virus seriously and was even talking about the Democrat's New "Hoax."

 

And how could anybody believe that a bat soup infected the first victim? What they told us were lies from the very beginning.

 

What happened to all the good Chinese guys who'd used a VPN and reported from Wuhan, the epidendrum? Their videos disappeared, and so did the moviemakers. 

 

Would China have closed its borders early enough when they knew how dangerous the virus was, there wouldn't be a pandemic in Europe, nor in the US and elsewhere?

 

Considering Trump's reaction and those of his followers who had countless demonstrations, of course, unprotected, where so many people thought that it was "made up" by somebody."

 

Please watch this YouTube video where Trump at 3:03 says that it's a hoax.

 

Doesn't that also mean that Trump's directly at fault for spreading wrong information about a deadly virus, only because he didn't listen to the doctors who knew how dangerous it was?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[teacherclaire]

54 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Impossible to compare FDR's response to WW2 to Trump's CV19 failure.  FDR did the right thing.  Trump and his enablers lied about the virus, admitted it on tape, and are still not showing leadership.  Unless you call playing golf while almost 4,000 people died leadership.  Come on.  Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands.  That is the truth.

Plus he should be held accountable. 

[Kelsall]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Impossible to compare FDR's response to WW2 to Trump's CV19 failure.  FDR did the right thing.  Trump and his enablers lied about the virus, admitted it on tape, and are still not showing leadership.  Unless you call playing golf while almost 4,000 people died leadership.  Come on.  Trump is responsible for the deaths of thousands.  That is the truth.

There is no evidence Trump caused any deaths.

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Complete BS.

 

Upon reviewing the official death certificates, the CDC has stated 90+% have died from at least 2 comorbidity's not from Covid alone.

 

The comorbidity's are all listed on the CDC website.

 

A newly elected US Representative just died and all the news reported it was from Covid. When the facts came out, he died from a heart attack not related to Covid but they still want to blame it was Covid.

 

 

 

That's exactly the same as the way flu deaths are reported. And you don't seem to account for the fact of excess mortality.

Rep.-elect Luke Letlow died from heart attack after procedure related to coronavirus

Rep.-elect Luke Letlow died from heart attack after procedure related to coronavirus | Fox News

 

And there's this:

What COVID-19 is doing to the heart, even after recovery

A growing number of studies suggest many COVID-19 survivors experience some type of heart damage, even if they didn't have underlying heart disease and weren't sick enough to be hospitalized. This latest twist has health care experts worried about a potential increase in heart failure.

"Very early into the pandemic, it was clear that many patients who were hospitalized were showing evidence of cardiac injury," said Dr. Gregg Fonarow, chief of the division of cardiology at the University of California, Los Angeles.

What COVID-19 is doing to the heart, even after recovery | American Heart Association

Edited January 1, 2021 by placeholder

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

There is no evidence Trump caused any deaths.

 

There have been a number of analysis published, though trump administration will never accept responsibility for even one death due to trump's misinformation campaigns; an example:

 

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0020731420960345

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

There is no evidence Trump caused any deaths.

Face masks: what the data say (nature.com)

Face masks considerably reduce COVID-19 cases in Germany | PNAS

[Jeffr2]

35 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

Plus he should be held accountable. 

Not only him, but those who enabled this disaster.  And that's a long list...

[teacherclaire]

10 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not only him, but those who enabled this disaster.  And that's a long list...

I'm often wondering why these people do not criticize China for the miserable situation........

 

  America's involvement in Wuhan laboratories where Corona viruses were used to build a biological weapon?

Why else did the spend 10 million bucks on a laboratory in Wuhan where the Chinese had already worked with the coronavirus for a long time?

 

 Would China have told the truth to the world from the beginning, and closed its borders, there wouldn't be a pandemic in any country other than China.

 

All the deaths and the immense costs of hospitalization of patients can bring down a country. 

 

   All the problems which include my family back home are China's fault. 

 

These people had nothing to do with the virus and are now the victims. With an open end. This world will never be as it once was.

 

A couple of mutations and they are back where they have started. 

 

    How can you wish anybody a Happy New Year, knowing it can't be that happy, using common sense and reading the strange numbers of death? 

 

   Build a wall all around China, Mr. Trump and I'll donate some money as well. Mexico was a hoax. 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by teacherclaire

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

There is no evidence Trump caused any deaths.

Yes there is.  You just don't want to hear it or believe it.  Sad.

 

Please, listen to this.  Though I doubt it will change your mine.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/10/911368698/trump-tells-woodward-he-deliberately-downplayed-coronavirus-threat
 

Quote

 

It's also more deadly than your - you know, your - even your strenuous flus.

 

I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down...

 

 

What Kushner said should be prosecuted as a crime.  For causing unnecessary deaths.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/28/politics/woodward-kushner-coronavirus-doctors/index.html

 

Quote

 

Trump’s now back in charge. It’s not the doctors. They’ve kind of – we have, like, a negotiated settlement.

 

The last thing was kind of doing the guidelines, which was interesting. And that in my mind was almost like – you know, it was almost like Trump getting the country back from the doctors. Right? In the sense that what he now did was, you know, he’s going to own the open-up.

 

But the president also is very smart politically with the way he did that fight with the governors to basically say, no, no, no, no, I own the opening. Because again, the opening is going to be very popular. People want this country open. But if it opens in the wrong way, the question will be, did the governors follow the guidelines we set out or not?

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, teacherclaire said:

I'm often wondering why these people do not criticize China for the miserable situation........

 

  America's involvement in Wuhan laboratories where Corona viruses were used to build a biological weapon?

Whey else did the spend 10 million bucks on a laboratory in Wuhan where the Chinese had already worked with the coronavirus for a long time.

 

 Would China have told the truth to the world from the beginning, and closed its bothers, there wouldn't be a pandemic in any country other than in China.

 

All the deaths and the immense costs of hospitalization of patients can bring down a country. 

 

   All the problems which include my family back home are China's fault. These people had nothing to do with the virus and are now the victims. With an open end. This world will never be as it once was.

 

A couple of mutations and they are where they started. 

 

 

Trump actually killed the program that was working with China to deal with these viruses.  Again, his fault 100%.

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/science/story/2020-04-03/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection

Quote

 

Two months before the novel coronavirus is thought to have begun its deadly advance in Wuhan, China, the Trump administration ended a $200-million pandemic early-warning program aimed at training scientists in China and other countries to detect and respond to such a threat.

 

The project, launched by the U.S. Agency for International Development in 2009, identified 1,200 different viruses that had the potential to erupt into pandemics, including more than 160 novel coronaviruses. The initiative, called PREDICT, also trained and supported staff in 60 foreign laboratories — including the Wuhan lab that identified SARS-CoV-2, the new coronavirus that causes COVID-19.

 

 

[teacherclaire]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Link?

I've just changed a few words. 

[cmarshall]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

Louisiana  congressman elect Luke Letlow. regardless of what  he privately thought, and you don't make it to the US congress by being stupid

 

 

 

The US has loads of stupid congressmen and senators.  Stupidity doesn't usually kill them though, as it did in this case.

[bwpage3]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

That's exactly the same as the way flu deaths are reported. And you don't seem to account for the fact of excess mortality.

Rep.-elect Luke Letlow died from heart attack after procedure related to coronavirus

Rep.-elect Luke Letlow died from heart attack after procedure related to coronavirus | Fox News

 

And there's this:

What COVID-19 is doing to the heart, even after recovery

A growing number of studies suggest many COVID-19 survivors experience some type of heart damage, even if they didn't have underlying heart disease and weren't sick enough to be hospitalized. This latest twist has health care experts worried about a potential increase in heart failure.

"Very early into the pandemic, it was clear that many patients who were hospitalized were showing evidence of cardiac injury," said Dr. Gregg Fonarow, chief of the division of cardiology at the University of California, Los Angeles.

What COVID-19 is doing to the heart, even after recovery | American Heart Association

The CDC has a chart in table 3 reporting ALL the comorbidity's. Not all are heart related.

 

Most of these folks would have died anyways and they is no evidence Covid contributed to any of the deaths, except the 9% that were attributed solely to Covid.

 

The evidence is the official death certificate which lists the cause of death.

 

The CDC has published the statistics based on the actual OFFICIAL CORORNER'S DEATH CERTIFICATE cause of death.

 

If a person died of cancer, what killed the person is what is listed, yet they are counting this statistic in Covid data.

 

Fox News is one of the sources always reported everyone who died, have died from Covid. Reported huge numbers of famous people throughout the US had Covid, yet no one ever died or was in the hospital. 

 

I believe the CDC official death certificates over any For Profit News.

 

 

[sirineou]

8 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

The US has loads of stupid congressmen and senators.  Stupidity doesn't usually kill them though, as it did in this case.

Not them, because they have resources as plebs do not have . But their stupidity does kill a lot people and compromises the lives of many many more.  

When I said "he deserved to die" I was not being an a-hole and insensitive to his family that must be going trough hell right now,, but who knows how many other people his selfish ambitious behaviour  has killed, and how many families are feeling the same  hurt  his family is feeling right now. 

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

 

10 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

I'm often wondering why these people do not criticize China for the miserable situation........

 

  America's involvement in Wuhan laboratories where Corona viruses were used to build a biological weapon?

Why else did the spend 10 million bucks on a laboratory in Wuhan where the Chinese had already worked with the coronavirus for a long time?

 

 Would China have told the truth to the world from the beginning, and closed its borders, there wouldn't be a pandemic in any country other than China.

 

All the deaths and the immense costs of hospitalization of patients can bring down a country. 

 

   All the problems which include my family back home are China's fault. 

 

These people had nothing to do with the virus and are now the victims. With an open end. This world will never be as it once was.

 

A couple of mutations and they are back where they have started. 

 

    How can you wish anybody a Happy New Year, knowing it can't be that happy, using common sense and reading the strange numbers of death? 

 

   Build a wall all around China, Mr. Trump and I'll donate some money as well. Mexico was a hoax. 

 

 

There's no link. Only some words are changed.

 

Why would the US spend so much money in China if they could have done that at home?

 

The US's involvement in Wuhan's laboratory, where the virus seems to originate, speaks for itself. 

 

  Do they not have laboratories in the US?

 

Why would the US be interested in doing experiments on mammals if it wasn't to become a biological weapon?

 

That might be the reason that China isn't under attack from the US.

 

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/shocking-us-gave-37-million-to-chinas-wuhan-lab-that-conducted-coronavirus-tests-on-bats/story/400831.html

Garbage.

Fact check: Obama administration did not send $3.7 million to Wuhan lab

Fact check: Obama administration did not send $3.7M to Wuhan lab (usatoday.com)

 

[Kelsall]

8 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

The US has loads of stupid congressmen and senators.  Stupidity doesn't usually kill them though, as it did in this case.

There are no published statistics of the IQ of congressman and senators.  There is no evidence that a low IQ is listed as the cause of death.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Kelsall

[teacherclaire]

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Garbage.

Fact check: Obama administration did not send $3.7 million to Wuhan lab

Fact check: Obama administration did not send $3.7M to Wuhan lab (usatoday.com)

 

Nobody said that the Obama Administration did that.

Newsweek recently put out some surprising reports that the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH) had funded the controversial Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). The WIV is the level four research facility suspected by some of being a possible source for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has already been on record confirming and defending this funding, saying it was “to protect American people from labs that aren’t up to standard.”( Doesn't that sound like a very cheap excuse?)

 

   https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/why-would-the-us-have-funded-the-controversial-wuhan-lab/

 

   Biosafety level 4 laboratories are used for diagnostic work and research on easily transmitted pathogens which can cause fatal disease. These include a number of viruses known to cause viral hemorrhagic fever such as Marburg virus, Ebola virus, Lassa virus, and Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever.