Vaccinated US nurse contracts COVID-19, expert says Pfizer shot needed more time to work - ABC

[snoop1130]

Vaccinated US nurse contracts COVID-19, expert says Pfizer shot needed more time to work - ABC

 

FILE PHOTO: A vial of the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is seen ahead of being administered at the Royal Victoria Hospital, on the first day of the largest immunisation programme in the British history, in Belfast, Northern Ireland December 8, 2020. Liam McBurney/Pool via REUTERS/File Photo

 

(Reuters) - A nurse in California tested positive for COVID-19 more than a week after receiving Pfizer Inc's vaccine, an ABC News affiliate reported https://bit.ly/2L8iBel on Tuesday, but a medical expert said the body needs more time to build up protection.

 

Matthew W., 45, a nurse at two different local hospitals, said in a Facebook post on December 18 that he had received the Pfizer vaccine, telling the ABC News affiliate that his arm was sore for a day but that he had suffered no other side-effects.

 

Six days later on Christmas Eve, he became sick after working a shift in the COVID-19 unit, the report added. He got the chills and later came down with muscle aches and fatigue.

 

He went to a drive-up hospital testing site and tested positive for COVID-19 the day after Christmas, the report said.

 

Christian Ramers, an infectious disease specialist with Family Health Centers of San Diego, told the ABC News affiliate that this scenario was not unexpected.

 

"We know from the vaccine clinical trials that it's going to take about 10 to 14 days for you to start to develop protection from the vaccine," Ramers said.

 

"That first dose we think gives you somewhere around 50%, and you need that second dose to get up to 95%," Ramers added.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-30

 

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[Kelsall]

No surprise and no big deal.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by Kelsall

[Mavideol]

am not surprised and would expect more of similar complains, the fact the vaccine needs to be frozen a -100 degrees it's a big draw back, not many places can deal with that requirement and that's the main reason why the US is below their number of vaccination estimates, hear Spain was having problems as well..... when it came out  I was skeptical about it and now still More skeptical

[timendres]

It will be interesting to see if they can determine whether or not the partial vaccination provided any benefit, such as reduced symptoms or reduced recovery time.

[pseudorabies]

With conventional vaccines (such as the influenza vaccines) roughly 2 weeks are needed for the immune system to produce a diverse repertoire of potent, effective antibodies. Not sure what the kinetics look like for the RNA vaccines.  It might be delayed by a couple of days (?)

[Farma]

Was watching a British health live meeting before and they were saying the UK approved for use Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine will be 70% effective after 22 days.

[placeholder]

40 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

am not surprised and would expect more of similar complains, the fact the vaccine needs to be frozen a -100 degrees it's a big draw back, not many places can deal with that requirement and that's the main reason why the US is below their number of vaccination estimates, hear Spain was having problems as well..... when it came out  I was skeptical about it and now still More skeptical

Actually, the Pfizer vaccine can be kept in a refrigerator for 5 days.

Why the COVID-19 Vaccine Needs to Be Kept So Cold | Houston Methodist On Health

ANd I haven't seen lack of adequate freezers as a reason for the slow rollout. Got a source for that?

[rabas]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

am not surprised and would expect more of similar complains, the fact the vaccine needs to be frozen a -100 degrees it's a big draw back, not many places can deal with that requirement and that's the main reason why the US is below their number of vaccination estimates, hear Spain was having problems as well..... when it came out  I was skeptical about it and now still More skeptical

Not in the US.  A lot is already set up. CVS and Walgreens pharmacies are distributing Pfizer's vaccine to 1000s of facilities in Texas. Walmarts started vaccinating HCWs in New Mexico last week.

 

CVS, Walgreens, independent pharmacies, Albertsons, Tom Thumb, Randalls, Kroger, H-E-B, Walmart, Sam’s Club and Costco have been preparing for COVID-19 vaccinations by hiring thousands of pharmacists and related staff, such as nurse practitioners and physician assistants.

 

CVS alone says it will have the capacity to administer 20 million to 25 million shots a month nationwide.  reference

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by rabas

[foreverlomsak]

1 hour ago, pseudorabies said:

With conventional vaccines (such as the influenza vaccines) roughly 2 weeks are needed for the immune system to produce a diverse repertoire of potent, effective antibodies.

As I understand it all vaccines give you a small dose of the "problem" to allow your immune system to identify and create antibodies, this does take time, and individuals do catch the "full blown problem" from the vaccine instead of gaining immunity, thankfully they do tend to be extremely low numbers (example polio). So it's not surprising somebody newly vaccinated should develop the "problem", but hopefully in a reduced capacity.

I wait for somebody to contradict me.

[sirineou]

If I understand this right, She was not vaccinated yet, she had only received the first part of a two dose  vaccination. 

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

As I understand it all vaccines give you a small dose of the "problem" to allow your immune system to identify and create antibodies, this does take time, and individuals do catch the "full blown problem" from the vaccine instead of gaining immunity, thankfully they do tend to be extremely low numbers (example polio). So it's not surprising somebody newly vaccinated should develop the "problem", but hopefully in a reduced capacity.

I wait for somebody to contradict me.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "problem." But since there is no virus in the vaccine, there's no chance of contracting covid-19 from it.

[foreverlomsak]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm not sure what you mean by the "problem." But since there is no virus in the vaccine, there's no chance of contracting covid-19 from it.

I was using the word "problem" as a generic for all types of vaccines, which previously I understood (I stand corrected on Covid) to give you minute dose of the "problem" e.g. polio, to enable your immune system to identify and create immunity.

[rickthailand]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm not sure what you mean by the "problem." But since there is no virus in the vaccine, there's no chance of contracting covid-19 from it.

ofcourse there is a little virus in the vaccine thats how they work

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, foreverlomsak said:

I was using the word "problem" as a generic for all types of vaccines, which previously I understood (I stand corrected on Covid) to give you minute dose of the "problem" e.g. polio, to enable your immune system to identify and create immunity.

These are a new type of vaccine. No virus in them.

 

2 minutes ago, rickthailand said:

ofcourse there is a little virus in the vaccine thats how they work

Nope. The active ingredient in these vaccines is messenger RNA. Absolutely no virus.

[stuandjulie]

5 minutes ago, rickthailand said:

ofcourse there is a little virus in the vaccine thats how they work

Well yes and no, for want of a better way of putting it, it is a neutered version of the virus

[placeholder]

Just now, stuandjulie said:

Well yes and no, for want of a better way of putting it, it is a neutered version of the virus

No it is not. Just messenger mRNA and the stuff designed to keep it intact and convey it into the bloodstream.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, rickthailand said:

ofcourse there is a little virus in the vaccine thats how they work

 

3 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

Well yes and no, for want of a better way of putting it, it is a neutered version of the virus

Some do, some don't. AFAIK Moderna vaccine and Astra vaccine don't, Russian and Chinese vaccine do.

Edited December 30, 2020 by stevenl

[stuandjulie]

Just now, stevenl said:

 

Some do, some don't. AFAIK Moderna vaccine and Astra vaccine don't.

True, they went a different route, the point though is still it is a sort of neutered virus if it is used.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, stuandjulie said:

True, they went a different route, the point though is still it is a sort of neutered virus if it is used.

No, not correct. It has to stimulate the body to produce antobodies. Some vaccines use 'still' virus for that, some other means. AFAIK Moderna and Astra do not use still virus but other ways to stimulate building of antibodies.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

Some do, some don't. AFAIK Moderna vaccine and Astra vaccine don't.

I think it's Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA. Astra Zeneca uses an adenovirus to convey immunity. mRNA is very fragile. An adenovirus much less so. That's why the Astra zeneca vaccine doesn't need to be frozen.

[stevenl]

46 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

As I understand it all vaccines give you a small dose of the "problem" to allow your immune system to identify and create antibodies, this does take time, and individuals do catch the "full blown problem" from the vaccine instead of gaining immunity, thankfully they do tend to be extremely low numbers (example polio). So it's not surprising somebody newly vaccinated should develop the "problem", but hopefully in a reduced capacity.

I wait for somebody to contradict me.

PCR tests test the presence of the virus. With some of the vaccines used that will mean a negative result since they don't use the virus itself but other means to weaponise the body against the virus.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not correct. It has to stimulate the body to produce antobodies. Some vaccines use 'still' virus for that, some other means. AFAIK Moderna and Astra do not use still virus but other ways to stimulate building of antibodies.

right, they use mRNA. Specifically the mRNA that codes the spike. Once injected it starts telling cells to make the spike. The immune system senses something is wrong with these cells and learns how to attack the spike. So when the actual covid-19 virus enters into a human, the immune system already knows how to deal with the spike.

Edited December 30, 2020 by placeholder

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

I think it's Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA. Astra Zeneca uses an adenovirus to convey immunity. mRNA is very fragile. An adenovirus much less so. That's why the Astra zeneca vaccine doesn't need to be frozen.

Could easily be correct.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think it's Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA. Astra Zeneca uses an adenovirus to convey immunity. mRNA is very fragile. An adenovirus much less so. That's why the Astra zeneca vaccine doesn't need to be frozen.

Quote

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is based on the virus’s genetic instructions for building the spike protein. But unlike the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, which store the instructions in single-stranded RNA, the Oxford vaccine uses double-stranded DNA.

Quote

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine for Covid-19 is more rugged than the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna. DNA is not as fragile as RNA, and the adenovirus’s tough protein coat helps protect the genetic material inside. As a result, the Oxford vaccine doesn’t have to stay frozen. The vaccine is expected to last for at least six months when refrigerated at 38–46°F (2–8°C).

From https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

am not surprised and would expect more of similar complains, the fact the vaccine needs to be frozen a -100 degrees it's a big draw back, not many places can deal with that requirement and that's the main reason why the US is below their number of vaccination estimates, hear Spain was having problems as well..... when it came out  I was skeptical about it and now still More skeptical

 

 

I think the problem is as explained in the OP article, given that the Pfizer vaccine is and always has been a two injection process with required time between the two.

 

"We know from the vaccine clinical trials that it's going to take about 10 to 14 days for you to start to develop protection from the vaccine," Ramers said.

 

"That first dose we think gives you somewhere around 50%, and you need that second dose to get up to 95%," Ramers added."

[pseudorabies]

2 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

As I understand it all vaccines give you a small dose of the "problem" to allow your immune system to identify and create antibodies, this does take time, and individuals do catch the "full blown problem" from the vaccine instead of gaining immunity, thankfully they do tend to be extremely low numbers (example polio). So it's not surprising somebody newly vaccinated should develop the "problem", but hopefully in a reduced capacity.

I wait for somebody to contradict me.

The older vaccines were inactivated or attenuated viruses.  The Covid vaccines, (and HBV, HPV, VZV and many influenza vaccines) are recombinant meaning that they expose the person to one or a few pathogen proteins.  Or in this case mRNA that encodes for a protein to be produced by the vaccinee's cells (is that a word???).  There is no risk of a real infection here as there is no intact virus in the vaccine.  This nurse probably was already infected but asymptomatic or became infected shortly thereafter.  As Timendres posted, it will be interesting to see if her symptoms are milder than average and/or duration is reduced.  Granted this is an "n" of 1.

Edited December 30, 2020 by pseudorabies
Typo

[Patong2021]

Maybe nurse was already infected. He showed symptoms 6 days after vaccine. Incubation period  is 2-14 days.

[Meat Pie 47]

1 hour ago, rickthailand said:

ofcourse there is a little virus in the vaccine thats how they work

Go back to medical school

[Credo]

It's also important to remember it is about 95% effective, not 100% effective.   A small % will get the virus no matter what.   

[BRUFC]

Where's Tiffany Dover?