2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Take away guns from the police and issue them ballpoints?

One day, I am expecting someone to conduct a massacre in America with a surplus tank. It just keeps escalating.

The Founding Fathers never imagined one day there would be guns that could kill and injure hundreds of people in a few minutes.

I would suggest keeping the Second Amendment. It's almost sacred in the US psyche.  However, the ordinary citizen would only be allowed a weapon that could fire a single shot, and had to be reloaded by hand each time.

It probably would not do much for the suicide rate, but it sure as hell would reduce the number of multiple homicides and gun massacres. It would also make Americans think far more carefully before they reached for a firearm.

2 hours ago, scammed said:

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies, is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1".

 

Having a law that predicts that outcome does not invalidate the comparison.

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would suggest keeping the Second Amendment.

it well out of date and would save many lives if it were taken away.

Leave your guns at home......next to the jar where you keep your brain.

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Having a law that predicts that outcome does not invalidate the comparison.

it does go to show humans are predictable,

it is predictable that humans on internet will default on equalizing whomever

and whatever they are arguing against, with hitler/nazi,

and the probability goes to 1 the longer they argue.

its inevitable, the most primal of human motivation

and acting

Are grenades ok? ???? 

The Rittenhouse playbook will be used again: travel with firearms to another place (not your hometown), wear some decoy (medics pac), sprouting humanitarian slogan ("I'm here to help/protect, anyone hurt?"), looking out for hot spots (burning dumpsters, "fine people on both sides" arguing), then get in the middle of it and passively stir things up (pointing your rifle at someone,) possibly that would lead to confrontations ie opportunities to justify deploying your weapon and get a "self-defense" licence/excuse to kill.

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

 

IMO any Trump supporter found with a firearm at a rally should be arrested immediately, banned from any further participation, and fined $20,000

And hopefully lose their gun license. That would probably hurt them the most, so that could be the biggest deterrent. 

It’s completely insane to being with that people have to be warned by the police to leave their guns at home when they want to go to a rally, that would not be necessary in just about any other country in the world. What a weird country. 

The 2nd Amendment will forever invite controversy. It was written at a time when the typical 'consumer' weapon available was a musket, a gun that could fire a single shot, with limited accuracy, and requiring about half a minute to load another round. Neither Jefferson nor Madison could have envisaged an AR-15 with a 100 round mag of 5.56 NATO (30 rd mag is the norm, but 100 rd mags are for sale) with a muzzle velocity of 3200 fps, much less an A-10 Warthog with a GAU-8 nose cannon firing depleted uranium rounds. Anyone, with minimal training, can learn to fire a modern, easily purchased rifle with 1 MOA accuracy. That means approximately hitting a one inch target at 100 yards, or a 5 inch target at 500 yards. Such accuracy would be laughable with the muskets that were available when the 2nd Amendment was written. Anyone can also easily fire 100 rounds in a minute (though the barrel might overheat and cause a malfunction). So 100 rounds of NATO 5.56 at 3200 fps represents a highly dangerous killing machine, yet in many States, anyone can go buy one, or a dozen of them, with merely a 2-minute FBI background check online.

 

Consider the power that a citizen can have. Most people would fear a 230 grain round from a typical .45 cal handgun, but the power of that is nothing compared to a much lighter 55 grain round of 5.56 NATO. Using E=mc^2, that 5.56 NATO from an AR-15 has more than 4 times the energy of a 230 gr round from a .45 cal handgun. What makes the difference is velocity, because in the energy equation it is c^2, and the muzzle velocity difference between the two is 3200-900, or 2300 fps.

 

Along the way limits have been put on what weapons can be privately possessed. Jeff Bezos could afford his own carrier group, complete with F-18s and an Ohio-class sub carrying Trident missiles with W88 nuclear warheads of 455 kiloton strength (for reference, the Hiroshima bomb has been estimated at between 12 and 20 kilotons), but he would not be allowed to do so. Others argue a citizen should be able to possess whatever the 'common' available weapons are, which is kind of a tautology, because to become 'common' they first need to be allowed. Put here the semi-auto rifles that are erroneously, but regularly called 'assault rifles'.

 

States and different jurisdictions are allowed to set their own rules, too. Thus some States are 'open carry' States, while others are not. Most States require a permit for concealed carry, but oddly some of these same States allow open carry. In Kentucky one can actually walk into the Statehouse carrying an AR-15. Other States ban possession of semi-auto long guns like ARs and the like, and limit magazine size on handguns.

 

It is ironic, or perhaps not, that people like 45, who argue for a loosely interpreted 2nd Amendment, and who champion protesters in Michigan who brought AR-15s and AK-47s to the Statehouse, would never allow anyone to walk onto White House grounds with the same weapons.

 

DC itself has strict gun laws, requiring permits for anyone carrying. DC citizens many possess certain guns, but not semi-auto long guns nor guns with magazines above, I believe, 10 rounds. Out of State residents, even those with permits to carry, cannot carry in DC. If proud boys from out of DC are found to be in possession, they can be arrested, charged with a felony, and lose the right to own a weapon.

Just now, Walker88 said:

DC itself has strict gun laws

Wouldn't argue with anything you have said....but Japanese gun laws are the way to go.....now that is strict.

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Wouldn't argue with anything you have said....but Japanese gun laws are the way to go.....now that is strict.

I tried to write something both factual and neutral, hoping it would explain the quite arcane rules regarding gun ownership in the US, as it differs so markedly from the rest of the civilized world. If not neutral, I only would have invited pages of bickering between those on either side of the gun argument. Finally, I wanted to show what trouble the proud boys could have if they carry in DC over the next few days.

 

In the US, the debate about the 2nd Amendment will never end.

Just now, Walker88 said:

I tried to write something both factual and neutral, hoping it would explain the quite arcane rules regarding gun ownership in the US, as it differs so markedly from the rest of the civilized world. If not neutral, I only would have invited pages of bickering between those on either side of the gun argument. Finally, I wanted to show what trouble the proud boys could have if they carry in DC over the next few days.

 

In the US, the debate about the 2nd Amendment will never end.

...and you did a very good job of it...

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

One day, I am expecting someone to conduct a massacre in America with a surplus tank. It just keeps escalating.

And the response, (from the usual suspects) will be "well, if the police/teachers/congregation/audience had tanks..."

 

You are right, these killings have become inevitable. It would seem that American society is firmly wedded to the attraction of wondering about the place tooled up like cowboys on the lash; and virtually no horrible slaughter, children, concert audience or church congregations will cause them to give up their fantasies. To me at least it is completely incomprehensible. I was a professional soldier for over 30 years, and since I retired from the army I have never touched a gun, and have no interest whatsoever in doing so.

 

It is not liberty, it is not " self defence", it is <deleted> insanity! The United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand have taken guns out of society, and are no less free, and no more dangerous places for it.

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

One day, I am expecting someone to conduct a massacre in America with a surplus tank. It just keeps escalating.

It doesn't say anywhere in the 2nd amendment where I can't have a nuclear weapon. I want a nuclear bomb! Muh FREEDOM!

45 minutes ago, J Town said:

It doesn't say anywhere in the 2nd amendment where I can't have a nuclear weapon. I want a nuclear bomb! Muh FREEDOM!

Uranium, hydrogen or cobalt? Neutrons anyone?  They don't damage property

9 hours ago, webfact said:

“We will be incognito and we will spread across downtown DC in smaller teams,” wrote Enrique Tarrio.

Why would the proud boys do that then?

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The quality of Trump supporters is there for the world to see. Death threats to officials whose only crime was to preside over free and fair elections.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-12-14/why-a-life-long-republican-took-on-trump-and-his-job-isnt-yet-done

 

IMO any Trump supporter found with a firearm at a rally should be arrested immediately, banned from any further participation, and fined $20,000.

 

Perhaps Trump can turn pardons into a sausage machine for said supporters. I would not put it past him.

wondering when the first challenge of irrational and controversially pardons will be filed in court. 

These Republican Party supporters although their distaste for the Democratic Party is understandable, they are among the worst of Americans along with American Values, IMO.

 

They keep the poor down. Anyone who is a supporter of that Republican Party surely deserves a mouthful. Half of em are quite ill informed and unpatriotic. Along with lacking any real ideology.

 

????✌????

Here is a congress member demonstrating the insanity of a gun culture.

 

"'A newly elected congresswoman raised the issue of firearms in the capital on Sunday, pledging to carry her handgun in Congress.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/05/trump-protesters-warned-not-to-carry-guns-as-washington-dc-calls-up-national-guard

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

"'A newly elected congresswoman raised the issue of firearms in the capital on Sunday, pledging to carry her handgun in Congress.''

From Rifle, Colorado, I kid you not ????????????. 

I wonder if US Citizens understand how very weird this story reads to most of the rest of the  Western world?   Probably not. 

Some inflammatory posts have been removed

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

One day, I am expecting someone to conduct a massacre in America with a surplus tank. It just keeps escalating.

The Founding Fathers never imagined one day there would be guns that could kill and injure hundreds of people in a few o crush quite  few  cars minutes.

I would suggest keeping the Second Amendment. It's almost sacred in the US psyche.  However, the ordinary citizen would only be allowed a weapon that could fire a single shot, and had to be reloaded by hand each time.

It probably would not do much for the suicide rate, but it sure as hell would reduce the number of multiple homicides and gun massacres. It would also make Americans think far more carefully before they reached for a firearm.

Has been attempted already. Not exactly a surplus  tank and luckily had no live rounds of any sort. managed to crush quite a few  cars before he got stopped and shot !

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Why would the proud boys do that then?

 

Probably so they will be less of a target for ANTIFA.

1 minute ago, PattayaJames said:

 

Probably so they will be less of a target for ANTIFA.

Nope.

'enlisted National Guard troops'

An example of legally invoking martial law by the  D.C. government to supplement local authorities enforcement of legislatived laws.

Not remotely similar to Gen. (retired) Flynn idea of Trump using martial law to overturn legislated laws.

So the leader of the Proud Boys was arrested for burning a banner!  I must have missed the news items where the leaders of the BLM 'protests' were arrested for anything? 

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The quality of Trump supporters is there for the world to see. Death threats to officials whose only crime was to preside over free and fair elections.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-12-14/why-a-life-long-republican-took-on-trump-and-his-job-isnt-yet-done

 

IMO any Trump supporter found with a firearm at a rally should be arrested immediately, banned from any further participation, and fined $20,000.

 

Perhaps Trump can turn pardons into a sausage machine for said supporters. I would not put it past him.

 

8 hours ago, Tagged said:

I know thats your right, to bring your gun to protect yourself, but for anyone who is brought up in Europe, it sounds insane and unbeliveable that anyone with common sense would bring weapons to a demostration. Deleted up big time

@ Tagged,  Yep, agree with that. It leaves peaceful demonstrators in a precarious situation because it is not beyond the realms of possibility that non-Trump supporters might do the same. But maybe Lacessit doesn't include non-Trump supporters being arrested. IMO All in the crowd of demonstrators found with a firearm should be arrested.

4 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Leave your guns at home......next to the jar where you keep your brain.

Yes the kids in black should do this!!!