China doubles down on COVID narrative as WHO investigation looms

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Monday that the country would welcome the(ir) WHO team.

Like most governments, what they say and what they actually do are 2 different things!  As you well know.

[pseudorabies]

The Associated Press had a good write-up last week about how the PRC is trying (desperately) to change public perception that the virus originated from China.  This includes throttling research, access to samples and publication of data. 

 

https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-coronavirus-pandemic-china-only-on-ap-bats-24fbadc58cee3a40bca2ddf7a14d2955

 

(Apologies if this was covered in other threads)

[nobodysfriend]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

And sadly, the truth may never be known about the origins of this virus. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/4/11/the-wildlife-trade-caused-coronavirus-and-a-vaccine-cant-fix-it/

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-new-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered-study-shows

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52048195

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1844024/chinas-animal-trade-to-bring-more-viral-outbreaks-experts#cxrecs_s

https://www.bbc.com/news/52310194

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1904370/humans-to-blame-for-spread-of-coronavirus-and-other-zoonoses?utm_campaign=enewsletter regular&utm_source=enewsletter_alert&utm_medium=World

 

There are few doubts about the original first appearance of the Sars cov2 virus on that Wuhan market .

It was most probably present in a publicly slaughtered pangolin over there , and spread by air via minuscule blood droplets to the nearest bystanders .

 

The Origin of WHY the virus appeared is to be found in the ongoing and accelerating man made destruction of natural habitats and ecosystems around the world .

 

Human activity has severely degraded three quarters of all land and 40% of Earth's oceans, and our quickening destruction of nature is likely to have untold consequences on our health and livelihoods.

The Living Planet Index, which tracks more than 4,000 species of vertebrates, warned that increasing deforestation and agricultural expansion were the key drivers behind a 68% average decline in populations between 1970 and 2016.

It warned that continued natural habitat loss increased the risk of future pandemics as humans expand their presence into ever closer contact with wild animals.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/10/wildlife-in-catastrophic-decline-due-to-human-destruction-wwf

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1897815/goodall-disrespect-for-animals-helped-cause-pandemic?utm_campaign=enewsletter regular&utm_source=enewsletter_alert&utm_medium=World

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201105-what-is-ecocide

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/4/11/the-wildlife-trade-caused-coronavirus-and-a-vaccine-cant-fix-it/

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-new-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered-study-shows

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52048195

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1844024/chinas-animal-trade-to-bring-more-viral-outbreaks-experts#cxrecs_s

https://www.bbc.com/news/52310194

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1904370/humans-to-blame-for-spread-of-coronavirus-and-other-zoonoses?utm_campaign=enewsletter regular&utm_source=enewsletter_alert&utm_medium=World

 

There are few doubts about the original first appearance of the Sars cov2 virus on that Wuhan market .

It was most probably present in a publicly slaughtered pangolin over there , and spread by air via minuscule blood droplets to the nearest bystanders .

 

The Origin of WHY the virus appeared is to be found in the ongoing and accelerating man made destruction of natural habitats and ecosystems around the world .

 

Human activity has severely degraded three quarters of all land and 40% of Earth's oceans, and our quickening destruction of nature is likely to have untold consequences on our health and livelihoods.

The Living Planet Index, which tracks more than 4,000 species of vertebrates, warned that increasing deforestation and agricultural expansion were the key drivers behind a 68% average decline in populations between 1970 and 2016.

It warned that continued natural habitat loss increased the risk of future pandemics as humans expand their presence into ever closer contact with wild animals.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/10/wildlife-in-catastrophic-decline-due-to-human-destruction-wwf

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1897815/goodall-disrespect-for-animals-helped-cause-pandemic?utm_campaign=enewsletter regular&utm_source=enewsletter_alert&utm_medium=World

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201105-what-is-ecocide

 

 

As long as we live like we do, viruses like this will keep coming.  Bill Gates was preparing for one even worse than any we've seen so far.  Scary....

[nobodysfriend]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

As long as we live like we do, viruses like this will keep coming.  Bill Gates was preparing for one even worse than any we've seen so far.  Scary....

Mankind has meanwhile proven to be a destructive species without regard or respect of the biological environment that finally created mankind itself .

The virus and the ones to come are there for a reason .

That is to reduce the threat imposed on this planet's biosphere and ecosystems by our species .

It did a great job on instantly reducing man made pollution already .

A very precise tool deigned to do a specific job .

There is only one way out of that dilemma mankind is facing now .

Instantly reducing or better eliminating all pollution , destruction , and toxic emissions .

That will not happen . The consequences are clearly foreseeable by now .

It is a pity that mankind is still guided by the same basic instincts that are fear and greed ...

But anyway , human population on this planet is already far beyond the bearable and sustainable levels .

The virus is part of the " immune system " of a living planet .

Everything is connected .

[nobodysfriend]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55555466

 

Covid: WHO team investigating virus origins denied entry to China

[Iron Tongue]

2 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55555466

 

Covid: WHO team investigating virus origins denied entry to China

Yep.  Who was surprised?

[Meat Pie 47]

4 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55555466

 

Covid: WHO team investigating virus origins denied entry to China

Yes add to that

MILLIONS TO BE TESTED: ‘Wartime’ in China as it’s rocked by virus outbreak

WHO investigators have been banned from Wuhan by Chinese authorities, as another province goes into “wartime” mode over a new outbreak.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-china-bans-who-investigators-from-wuhan/news-story/d93726011da8f136b72d4b366b40da1a

[Natai Beach]

12 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

I know who I blame for ringing the life out of anything normal and for ever will and hope when possible the free world makes the Chinese pay a withering cost ???? 

 

I have some bad news for you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/china-to-overtake-us-as-worlds-biggest-economy-by-2028-report-predicts

[Puccini]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55555466

 

Covid: WHO team investigating virus origins denied entry to China

 

This is interesting and makes one wonder what the Chinese have to hide. A longer and more detailed article on China's denial to allow WHO scientist to enter the country is here:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/05/china/china-blocks-who-team-coronavirus-intl-hnk/index.html

[rabas]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

There are few doubts about the original first appearance of the Sars cov2 virus on that Wuhan market .

It was most probably present in a publicly slaughtered pangolin over there , and spread by air via minuscule blood droplets to the nearest bystanders .

It's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

 

-- Many of the earliest cases pre-dated the market and had no contact with anyone who did.

 

-- It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other

 

Chinese authorities have now claimed many origins, none of which are backed by fact.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Natai Beach said:

 

I have some bad news for you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/china-to-overtake-us-as-worlds-biggest-economy-by-2028-report-predicts

7 years is a long time, even for The Guardian...????

[natway09]

The more interesting thing for me is that when the severity of the situation became aware & 

China rang the alarm bells very few countries including USA,UK & most of Europe did 

much about it choosing to continue making the almighty dollar which China before the outbreak 

not having the advantage of "hindsight " did not.

The severity of transmissin also fall at large on our western leaders who put the blinkers on 

Donald Trump to this day still has not taken them off

[Puccini]

39 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

 

I have some bad news for you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/china-to-overtake-us-as-worlds-biggest-economy-by-2028-report-predicts

 

From the linked news article:

 

Quote

 

A World Health Organization (WHO) team due to investigate the origins of Covid-19 in the city of Wuhan has been denied entry to China.

 

Two members had already set out on their journey - one has now turned back and the other is in transit in a third country.

 

The WHO said the problem was a lack of visa clearances.

 

 

This is incredible. Somebody should tell the people at WHO about the birds and the bees and a thing called visa. 

[nobodysfriend]

47 minutes ago, rabas said:

t's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

Prove that .

 

" - It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other "

 

Just show the prove then ... If you cannot , you are just spreading rumors ...

Edited January 6, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[Jeffr2]

48 minutes ago, rabas said:

It's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

 

-- Many of the earliest cases pre-dated the market and had no contact with anyone who did.

 

-- It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other

 

Chinese authorities have now claimed many origins, none of which are backed by fact.

I'm not sure that's been proven?  The only thing that's been proven is that it wasn't created in a lab.  Other than that, there are many different theories.  But none proven yet.  And we never know the exact source.

[Puccini]

17 minutes ago, natway09 said:

The more interesting thing for me is that when the severity of the situation became aware & 

China rang the alarm bells very few countries including USA,UK & most of Europe did 

much about it choosing to continue making the almighty dollar which China before the outbreak 

not having the advantage of "hindsight " did not.

The severity of transmissin also fall at large on our western leaders who put the blinkers on 

Donald Trump to this day still has not taken them off

This reminds me of the news, in February 2019, of how the head of state of a country told his people that this new virus was nothing to worry about, that it was just like the flu and would be over by April. Later news were that the same head of state blamed the WHO for not declaring a pandemic earlier than they did.

[Proboscis]

20 hours ago, ukrules said:

WHO puppets are reporting to their Chinese pay masters, I'm going to hazard a guess and suggest that they find nothing wrong in China and blame it on some 'anti China' like Taiwan.

I take it that you are either a Russian troll or completely uninformed.

 

The WHO is governed by the World Health Assembly to which each member country of the UN is entitled to have a seat on and vote and invariably does. THe funding comes from the UN agency, The United Nations Economic and Social Council and from partnerships such as international entities as the World Bank.

 

At no stage does the PRC (China) get to monopolise the policies or the funding of the WHO. Currently, if you have been paying attention, you will know that the PRC has prevented two WHO investigators from entering the PRC in order to identify the origin of Covid-19. Hardly puppets and pay masters.

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

I take it that you are either a Russian troll or completely uninformed.

 

The WHO is governed by the World Health Assembly to which each member country of the UN is entitled to have a seat on and vote and invariably does. THe funding comes from the UN agency, The United Nations Economic and Social Council and from partnerships such as international entities as the World Bank.

 

At no stage does the PRC (China) get to monopolise the policies or the funding of the WHO. Currently, if you have been paying attention, you will know that the PRC has prevented two WHO investigators from entering the PRC in order to identify the origin of Covid-19. Hardly puppets and pay masters.

Well put.  Though I do think the WHO could have done a better job by pushing China.  Though in the end, they have NO authority to do anything in that country without permission.

 

This virus probably originated in China (like many others have).  Probably due to close proximity of live animals at wet markets (like many others).  So, in the end, it is their fault.

[nobodysfriend]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

It's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

 

-- Many of the earliest cases pre-dated the market and had no contact with anyone who did.

 

-- It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other

 

Chinese authorities have now claimed many origins, none of which are backed by fact.

Your speculations are not backed by fact either ... !

[Bradmeister]

BINGO!!!!

 

"I think it is unlikely all viruses in the lab at the time will be made available to the team," she said. "So I do not think we will ever know the truth."

[rabas]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

4 hours ago, rabas said:

t's been shown that the Wuhan market was not and could not be the origin of the infection. In many ways.

Prove that .

I'll give you facts and avoid popular media. I will prove it but understanding is your job.

 

The very first paper published by Chinese scientists on the first cases in Wuhan stated that only 66% of all cases had anything to do with the market, and other cases pre-dated the market.  Remember we are talking about the origin.

 

"In the earliest case, the patient became ill on 1 December 2019 and had no reported link to the seafood market, the authors report. “No epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases,” they state. Their data also show that, in total, 13 of the 41 cases had no link to the marketplace. “That’s a big number, 13, with no link,” says Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University."

 

Professional references:

  Science Magazine. Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

 The Lancet: The original paper.

 

 

It was later shown that admitted, recorded cases go as far back as Nov 17, widely reported.

https://www.newsweek.com/one-year-first-covid-case-china-1547200

 

More recent, high powered computer studies of 35,000 genomes have traced the origin, "mother of all covid", even earlier to about September/October.  Again, not the market.

 

By Joseph Caspermeyer, Temple University, Virology, November 7, 2020

Original research paper.

 

I could go on but here is some more recent, less technical discussion, I think you get the point.

Live Science The coronavirus didn't really start at that Wuhan 'wet market'

China Says Wuhan Market not Origin of COVID-19

 

The origin is certainly not clear and may never be known as China has done everything possible it to block information and divert attention. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by rabas

[rabas]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

-" It has also been proven pangolin was not the source. A Chinese misstatement said pangolin was 99% similar. It was later shown pangolin in very different at only 90%. Nor snakes or all the other "

 

Just show the prove then ... If you cannot , you are just spreading rumors ...

 

Miscommunication   NATURE from revered  Nature Research Journals.

 

"The researchers said they had found a coronavirus in smuggled pangolins that was a 99% genetic match to the virus circulating in people."

 

But they 'miscommunicated'. They only meant a little piece.  Other scientists have heavily refuted their suggestion.

 

Not close Enough

Three similar comparison studies were posted on bioRxiv last week. One of those papers — by an international research group , posted on 18 February — found² that coronaviruses in frozen cell samples from illegally trafficked pangolins shared between 85.5% and 92.4% of their DNA with the virus found in humans.

 

Two other papers published on 20 February, from groups in China, also studied coronaviruses from smuggled pangolins. The viruses were 90.23%³ and 91.02%⁴ similar, respectively, to the virus that causes COVID-19.

Edited January 6, 2021 by rabas

[ChouDoufu]

18 hours ago, rabas said:

Only takes one virus and a single infection to start a global pandemic.

 

An infection that will go down in infamy.

 

nah, we've lost all credibility blaming china.

 

but let's just for giggles grant you the chinese covered it up, hid the virus, abducted doctors, and threw whistleblowers into re-education camps.  that was way, way, way back at the beginning of january, when there were no known cases is 'merka.

 

but what difference, at this point, does it make?

 

our nest of spies at the ground-zero consulate in wuhan delivered live streaming updates of the local situation.  the full-spectrum dominance landscape on the roof of the consulate was busy collecting actionable intelligence.  our great leader was given a tippy-top secret briefing around the middle of january where he was warned the virus would be his regime's greatest national security issue.  "we" knew the actual situation, not what was reported in the mainstream press or the falun gong disinformation sites.

 

trump chose to do nothing but cosmetic feel-good performances for his base, decidering to keep the factories running rather than face the facts of the virus, holding superspreader events and making the wearing of masks into a political statement.

 

an extra week of warning would have been meaningless with trump at the wheel.  consider we're nearly a year in, and his minions are still refusing to wear masks, and likely will refuse vaccination.

 

go ahead and blame the chinese.  you can even blame the ones in wuhan that (possibly belatedly) dealt with the virus and are now holding maskless pool parties and enjoying a resurgence of tourism, but what will go down in infamy is a us president being fully responsible for half a million unnecessary american dead.

[rabas]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm not sure that's been proven?  The only thing that's been proven is that it wasn't created in a lab.  Other than that, there are many different theories.  But none proven yet.  And we never know the exact source.

This has not been proven by a long shot. The threat of lab leaks, world wide,  has been a major area of concern and discussion long before CoV-SARS-2. I'll just give you a starting point from Scientific American.

 

Scientific American (2014):

Bio-Unsafety Level 3: Could the Next Lab Accident Result in a Pandemic?

 

"So-called gain-of-function pathogen research will likely receive closer scrutiny after three U.S. biolab incidents"

 

Bat Woman and the Wuhan Lab was working on and publishing GOF work on Bat coronaviruses  since 2015.   (reference)

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by rabas

[placnx]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm not sure that's been proven?  The only thing that's been proven is that it wasn't created in a lab.  Other than that, there are many different theories.  But none proven yet.  And we never know the exact source.

When you say created in a lab, I guess that you mean that it is not synthetic? It could however be the result of many operations of modifying an existing Coronavirus from the horseshoe bat. As for the market hypothesis, like the theory of importation by American visitors, no plausible links have been found. Horseshoe bat is not on the menu at official banquets.

 

And now we have the variant in the UK with a lot of mutations that appear to improve the Corona's effectiveness to infect. Hopefully some people are looking very deeply into that at Porton Down and Ft Detrick.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52684295

[Puccini]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

 

Miscommunication   NATURE from revered  Nature Research Journals.

 

"The researchers said they had found a coronavirus in smuggled pangolins that was a 99% genetic match to the virus circulating in people."

 

But they 'miscommunicated'. They only meant a little piece.  Other scientists have heavily refuted their suggestion.

 

Not close Enough

Three similar comparison studies were posted on bioRxiv last week. One of those papers — by an international research group , posted on 18 February — found² that coronaviruses in frozen cell samples from illegally trafficked pangolins shared between 85.5% and 92.4% of their DNA with the virus found in humans.

 

Two other papers published on 20 February, from groups in China, also studied coronaviruses from smuggled pangolins. The viruses were 90.23%³ and 91.02%⁴ similar, respectively, to the virus that causes COVID-19.

I think we should look at the pangolin articles in chronological sequence. There were stories in February 2020 about suspicion of pangolins being the source, followed by stories in October about evidence exonerating  the pangolins.

 

Suspicion

For example the article in February to which rabas linked above:

Quote

 

Mystery deepens over animal source of coronavirus

Pangolins are a prime suspect, but a slew of genetic analyses has yet to find conclusive proof.

 

Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00548-w

 

Evidence

For example these articles in October:

Quote

 

Letter to editor

COVID-19: Time to exonerate the pangolin from the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to humans

...Here, we provide evidence that the pangolin is not the intermediate animal at the origin of the human pandemic...

 

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1567134820303245

 

Quote

 

More evidence Pangolin not intermediary in transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to humans

...However, some studies later reported that the binding affinity of the pangolin ACE2 receptor for the RBD of the virus is low. In a recent paper published in the journal Infection, Genetics and Evolution, researchers from the University of Barcelona, Spain; Xiamen University, China; and IHU-Méditerranée Infection and CNRS, France, provided more evidence to prove why pangolin cannot be the intermediate animal in SARS-CoV-2 transmission to humans...

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Puccini
Eddited formatting

[rabas]

13 minutes ago, Puccini said:

I think we should look at the pangolin articles in chronological sequence. There were stories in February 2020 about suspicion of pangolins being the source, followed by stories in October about evidence exonerating  the pangolins.

 

Suspicion

For example the article in February to which rabas linked above:

Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00548-w

 

Evidence

For example these articles in October:

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1567134820303245

Excellent post and reference.

[Bruntoid]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:48 PM, YetAnother said:

now we know why the thais are so good and practiced at the blame game

Can we have some examples please or was it just a lazy throwaway racist remark (which according to the rules is banned allegedly) ???

[Bruntoid]

22 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Not quite true.

There are many reports about a 'foray' into a bat cave some six (?) years before. 4 of the 6 sample collectors died from 'respiratory' problems.

Samples were taken to the Wuhan lab and then experiments were performed.

China refuses to give any further details of what happened next.

They have banned doctors in Wuhan from talking to the investigators.

They have banned the public in Wuhan from talking to the investigators.

They have banned families of those in Wuhan that died or were ill from talking to the investigators.

This is a whitewash. No other word fits.

They would have died as they probably weren’t prepared for the neat ammonia that bats produce in numbers that they would have been breathing in surely ? Hardly advanced science