Always better letting nature take her course...

I used to use that line on women in my youth but they insisted on choosing morality over nature.

Now that is funny. I had many chat-up lines in my youth but doing what was natural was never one of them!

I had many chat-up lines in my youth but doing what was natural was never one of them!

Suggesting that you do something unnatural was?

My stepdaughter, who is in 6th grade, was given an assignment pertaining to text messaging a few weeks ago. The teacher asked the question "is the language used in text messaging a new language". The girl took the view that it was (as it's how she and her friends communicate). Still she wasn't sure why and came to seek my aid. I told her I disagreed that it was a new language, but suggested she research the meaning of words like slang, colloquial(ism), phonetic, abbreviated, etc. Upon doing so she believed she had something to defend her thesis, and came up with something quite presentable for class.

When her assignment was completed I asked her if she ran a big company would she want her employees addressing her customers in that way? Would she hire a lawyer who would argue before a court in that manner? Would one write a book using this language?

Of course she never gave me the satisfaction of coming around to my POV at that moment, but I could tell she was ruminating on it. Anyhow the whole thing was a good academic exercise for her I think. She's learning to defend an argument and maybe think too.

My stepdaughter, who is in 6th grade, was given an assignment pertaining to text messaging a few weeks ago. The teacher asked the question "is the language used in text messaging a new language". The girl took the view that it was (as it's how she and her friends communicate). Still she wasn't sure why and came to seek my aid. I told her I disagreed that it was a new language, but suggested she research the meaning of words like slang, colloquial(ism), phonetic, abbreviated, etc. Upon doing so she believed she had something to defend her thesis, and came up with something quite presentable for class.

When her assignment was completed I asked her if she ran a big company would she want her employees addressing her customers in that way? Would she hire a lawyer who would argue before a court in that manner? Would one write a book using this language?

Of course she never gave me the satisfaction of coming around to my POV at that moment, but I could tell she was ruminating on it. Anyhow the whole thing was a good academic exercise for her I think. She's learning to defend an argument and maybe think too.

A very interesting and valid post - English like all dynamic languages continues to evolve and change with each generation. I think that 100 years into the future people will be puzzling over our style of writing in much the same way students of my era puzzled over Chaucer.

Your desire to teach your daughter how to prepare and defend a point of view is invaluable and encouraged in the Western world. Here sadly it is actively discouraged and creates problems when someone puts up a contrary view. I get this at work on a regular basis. I have been told by both the GMD and our MD that the thing he hates about dealing with the farung is that we want to present our own view. He can't cope with anyone disagreeing with him and perceives it as a personal insult.

CB

I have been told by both the GMD and our MD that the thing he hates about dealing with the farung is that we want to present our own view. He can't cope with anyone disagreeing with him and perceives it as a personal insult.

Conversely as a farang manager of a section staffed by a mix of Thais and farangs it was frustrating trying to get the Thais to voice their opinions and ideas. Whatever the farang said was the way to go and there was never any dissent although I could always tell if they didn't agree with the solution by the lack of enthusiasm with which they proceeded with the job.

Even if I separated the Thais out and presented them with a problem and asked them to work out a solution the end result would depend on the inter Thai hierarchy with the junior members barely inputting.

Our western education has a lot to answer for, turning out all these argumentative, self opinionated, complaining, bloody minded, awkward farangs.

But in text messages you save money and time by being brief, so using abbreviated forms, where comprehensible, is surely a sign of being smart (economical) rather than dim-witted?

What phone company charges you by the character?

I thought it was common knowledge that the SMS (Short Message System) only allows a limited number of characters per message. If you exceed this number, you will be charged for another message (newer phones will indicate the number of characters/message you have used up). In your phone, you will not notice that you have exceeded the limit of the first message except through this indicator. If you have ever received a message where it says "message is being updated", it means the message was split into two during the transmission, and is being rejoined into one in your phone.

If you manage to to convey the same information in one message instead of two, you will spend less money.

I have been told by both the GMD and our MD that the thing he hates about dealing with the farung is that we want to present our own view. He can't cope with anyone disagreeing with him and perceives it as a personal insult.

Conversely as a farang manager of a section staffed by a mix of Thais and farangs it was frustrating trying to get the Thais to voice their opinions and ideas. Whatever the farang said was the way to go and there was never any dissent although I could always tell if they didn't agree with the solution by the lack of enthusiasm with which they proceeded with the job.

Even if I separated the Thais out and presented them with a problem and asked them to work out a solution the end result would depend on the inter Thai hierarchy with the junior members barely inputting.

I have a large staff comprised entirely of young (less than 30 years) Thais. They all have tertiary eduction and are bright and enthusiastic but they hate being asked for their opinion. It has taken me nearly 12 months for them to start to offer opinions, especially the girls who despite their education will automatically defer to any male. It is often frustrating for me because it takes much longer to get an answer. They wait to be told what to do, I have been told many times in the past that it is not their job to think but to do. It worries me because many times they know what they have been told is not correct.

Our western education has a lot to answer for, turning out all these argumentative, self opinionated, complaining, bloody minded, awkward farangs.

Then they turn up on Thai Visa and look what happens then, Bedlam.

It is a delicate art to balance between the cultures of the west and the east .

CB

But in text messages you save money and time by being brief, so using abbreviated forms, where comprehensible, is surely a sign of being smart (economical) rather than dim-witted?

What phone company charges you by the character?

I thought it was common knowledge that the SMS (Short Message System) only allows a limited number of characters per message. If you exceed this number, you will be charged for another message (newer phones will indicate the number of characters/message you have used up). In your phone, you will not notice that you have exceeded the limit of the first message except through this indicator. If you have ever received a message where it says "message is being updated", it means the message was split into two during the transmission, and is being rejoined into one in your phone.

If you manage to to convey the same information in one message instead of two, you will spend less money.

Now you're really reaching.

Who (who has passed into adulthood) actually sends enough SMS that they have a problem with it blowing the budget? Anything important gets sent another way, by email or whatever. SMS is more for play and bs'ing than anything.

A more likely explanation is they just don't feel like typing the whole word, than that they are sending massive reams of text that constantly fill the allowed space and by saving a half dozen characters it saves them loads of money.

I always thought the textish was purely an attempt to minimise the keystrokes on a system where up to four strokes are necessary to get one character. Then there's the capitals and punctuation and the little thumbs start to exhibit repetitive stress syndrome.

If we consider langauge/communication as purely a vehicle to convey a concept then whatever works best in a given situation can be considered the best suited. But it annoys me when it is done from a full on keyboard where the worst you have to do is press shift and the character key same time.

Oh well, nearly offski time. Down the pub with the other dinosaurs discussing the shocking demise of latin as a modern means of communication.

btw I frequently get the message that my sms is getting long winded, I think I've passed into adulthood, but that's due to my refusal to use textish.

Now you're really reaching.

Who (who has passed into adulthood) actually sends enough SMS that they have a problem with it blowing the budget? Anything important gets sent another way, by email or whatever. SMS is more for play and bs'ing than anything.

A more likely explanation is they just don't feel like typing the whole word, than that they are sending massive reams of text that constantly fill the allowed space and by saving a half dozen characters it saves them loads of money.

I never said it was about 'blowing the budget' or 'saving loads of money'STOP that's your interpretationSTOP It's about not spending more money and time than you have toSTOP

Even if it is just for BSSTOP why pay more than necessary and spend more time than is requiredSTOP And since it is for bs anywaySTOP who cares if it is written in shorthand with abbreviationsSTOP Does telegraphy language piss you off tooSTOP

Twist it to them being stingy, lazy paupers if you likeSTOP As for meSTOP I'll stop flogging the ecuus nowSTOP

I had many chat-up lines in my youth but doing what was natural was never one of them!

Suggesting that you do something unnatural was?

I should have thought that through!

Anything important gets sent another way, by email or whatever. SMS is more for play and bs'ing than anything.

not true at least in my experience. I've had 3 different managers/bosses use SMS to contact me after hours (important stuff). They prefer it and I prefer it too. some abbreviated the messages for readability but not over done.

There's nothing new about SMS textish. It's been in use since the mid-1800s. Just ask anyone who's ever used the morse code.

There's nothing new about SMS textish. It's been in use since the mid-1800s. Just ask anyone who's ever used the morse code.

.. ... ..- .--. .--. --- ... . - .... .- - .. ... - .-. ..- .

There's nothing new about SMS textish. It's been in use since the mid-1800s. Just ask anyone who's ever used the morse code.

.. ... ..- .--. .--. --- ... . - .... .- - .. ... - .-. ..- .

C'mon you two, getting into a rock fight over textish ( is that a word ) is plain lexicography gone mad, I thought I was the only guy here who could get into a fight in an empty room.

Good Luck

Moss

As for Suegha, doesn't surprize me at all

C'mon baby, let's do something unatural! Er, no, I don't think so. Although maybe if you said it to the right person...

There's nothing new about SMS textish. It's been in use since the mid-1800s. Just ask anyone who's ever used the morse code.

.. ... ..- .--. .--. --- ... . - .... .- - .. ... - .-. ..- .

I S U P P S O A H A T R U E

You have apparently transposed some of the characters but I think you are transmitting over a noisy line and the characters should read " I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE"

CB using CX - that brings back some memories

CB

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

What next? Aldiss lamps or how about Popham's Telegraphic Code?

http://www.aboutnelson.co.uk/englandexpcts.htm

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

Good morse (actually should be referred to as Telegraphic code which is slightly different or CX which stands for Continuous Wave Transmission) should never use abbreviations except for the international standards and appostrophes - oh no never. He should have also have also sent the message initiation and ending codes but that is getting technical .

CB

What next? Aldiss lamps or how about Popham's Telegraphic Code?

http://www.aboutnelson.co.uk/englandexpcts.htm

Semaphore flags, mainsail flags, or just a big signal fire on the top of the mountain to warn of the invading orks works too.

Still for most transmissions the internationally accepted language is English unless you are a Navajo Indian during the second world war.

Try sending and receiving trigram coded messages using CX and knowing it will be sent once only. Miss one trigram and the rest of the trasmission is garbled nonsense.

Voice Radio a jedi knight craves these things not Bah!

CB

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

Good morse (actually should be referred to as Telegraphic code which is slightly different or CX which stands for Continuous Wave Transmission) should never use abbreviations except for the international standards and appostrophes - oh no never. He should have also have also sent the message initiation and ending codes but that is getting technical .

CB

Well, I was just goofing around. I only had to be examined in Morse code once evry 5 years. or more often if I was upgrading my license. Except for some of the communications that go to the radio officer i only had to read it once in a 25 year carreer. That's what 3rd mates are for.

You must be the only one in Bedlam with three mates. Crow Boy had two, but one flew off before the spring.

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

Good morse (actually should be referred to as Telegraphic code which is slightly different or CX which stands for Continuous Wave Transmission) should never use abbreviations except for the international standards and appostrophes - oh no never. He should have also have also sent the message initiation and ending codes but that is getting technical .

CB

Well, I was just goofing around. I only had to be examined in Morse code once evry 5 years. or more often if I was upgrading my license. Except for some of the communications that go to the radio officer i only had to read it once in a 25 year carreer. That's what 3rd mates are for.

I remember my code course - we were set up in hides all over the training area for the last day. It was stinking hot and everyone was getting short tempered because we had been out for a week doing trigram codes and people were making mistakes so we would have to do it again and again.

Finally we got it right and the code came across at 75wpm - decoded it and it read TFE BON CBM - the guys around me started grabbing their code books for the meaning and I started packing my kit, pulled down the long line antennae and rolling up my little 5 watt transceiver. As I started to bug out one of my soldiers asked me were I was going and I said pack up and move it means "too f**king easy, bug out now, come back monday"

When we came back on the Monday they set us the date dependent codes that change every four hours. The transmission is sent by a computer using an interface to the transmitter. It sends perfect mose code at up to 150 words per minute which was and always will be way beyond my ability to read. It used to amaze me the guys who could sit there with their eyes shut and print it out letter perfect at that rate.

CB

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

Good morse (actually should be referred to as Telegraphic code which is slightly different or CX which stands for Continuous Wave Transmission) should never use abbreviations except for the international standards and appostrophes - oh no never. He should have also have also sent the message initiation and ending codes but that is getting technical .

CB

Well, I was just goofing around. I only had to be examined in Morse code once evry 5 years. or more often if I was upgrading my license. Except for some of the communications that go to the radio officer

I was that radio officer - not on your ship obviously. BP, P&O, Sea Containers and one trip on a Fyffes banana boat

Lanna's morse reads:

I SUPPOSE THAT IS TRUE and is correct. He could have apostrophised THAT IS to - .... .- - .----. ... though

-.-. ..-

Good morse (actually should be referred to as Telegraphic code which is slightly different or CX which stands for Continuous Wave Transmission) should never use abbreviations except for the international standards and appostrophes - oh no never. He should have also have also sent the message initiation and ending codes but that is getting technical .

CB

Well, I was just goofing around. I only had to be examined in Morse code once evry 5 years. or more often if I was upgrading my license. Except for some of the communications that go to the radio officer

I was that radio officer - not on your ship obviously. BP, P&O, Sea Containers and one trip on a Fyffes banana boat

Out of interest what was your TX/RX speed?

CB - do we have to get back on topic yet?

I have absolutely no idea what the topic was, is, should be, or will be...

Let's just let it go, it's a very interesting thread!

I have absolutely no idea what the topic was, is, should be, or will be...

Let's just let it go, it's a very interesting thread!

Sorry Suegha I should not have pulled over this thread - fyi Tx is transmission speed ie how fast you can key the morse code and Rx is reception speed. Most people can receive faster than they can transmit, a leaner will transmit and receive at between 5-15 words per min which is actually quite quick. A competent (me - was back then) will transmit at 35 and receive at about 50 which is about a word every two seconds or about how fast most people can type. A good telegrapher will be between 100 - 150 words on transmit and 150-200 words receive. That is like a speed typist. To do it at night the telegrapher will use a special grid which is like a braile tool. It has small boxes set up in a grid pattern, each grid is about 5mm square. The trick to learning it is to close your eyes and that helps to concentrate the hearing, then put the pencil tip into the grid box, a good telegrapher will know from the beginning of the coded sequence for each character what it is likely to be ie if it starts at a dot and a dash the character will be either A ( dot dash) J (dot dash dash dash) L (dot dash dot dot) P (dot dash dash dot) R (dot dash dot or W (dot dash dash) so if the third key is a dash he will know it will either be a J P or W. In open code ie using real words the telegrapher will predictively write ahead which helps the speed. With real code where the letters do not translate directly into words but looked like a garbled translation you cannot predict ahead and if you do it can throw you out of sequence. The complicated ones are trigram codes were each letter corresponds to a three letter group eg A=DGT B = AJD C = XUR etc the sequence has to be split into three letter groups and then each group is looked up on a table and then the english translation is revealed. The really hard ones are when each trigram is used only ONCE each letter may have 20 trigrams corresponding to that character so the first time the letter A is sent it is DGT but the second time it will be something else such as UVT then the third time is AJE etc. These are very complicated to receive and to decode which makes them very secure. In addition the codes are time secured so that they change every four hours and each day has 6 sets. Depending on the process used the six codes are on a page and then each day the previous set is destroyed and the next page used. Our preferred option because we were out for extended periods is to use one set per day which is normally the only time we would transmit or more frequently receive. Part of the transmission would be to tell what sequence number the next days codes would be.

All clear now?

CB

Thank you. I feel enlightened!