Guatemalan forces clash with migrant caravan, Biden team seeks to halt exodus

[webfact]

Guatemalan forces clash with migrant caravan, Biden team seeks to halt exodus

By Luis Echeverria

 

Hondurans taking part in a new caravan of migrants set head to the United States, clash with Guatemalan soldiers as they try to cross into Guatemalan territory, in Vado Hondo, Guatemala January 17, 2021. REUTERS/Luis Echeverria

 

VADO HONDO, Guatemala (Reuters) - Guatemalan security forces on Sunday used sticks and tear gas to beat back a large migrant caravan bound for the United States, just days before the advent of a new U.S. administration, which urged travelers to abandon the journey.

 

Between 7,000 and 8,000 migrants, including families with young children, have entered Guatemala since Friday, authorities say, fleeing poverty and violence in a region hammered by the coronavirus pandemic and back-to-back hurricanes in November.

 

A large section of the caravan clashed early on Sunday with Guatemalan security officials, some 3,000 of whom had mustered by the village of Vado Hondo, about 55 km (34 miles) from the borders of Honduras and El Salvador.

 

"We want the Guatemalans to let us past," said Joaquin Ortiz, a Honduran in the caravan. "Because we're not leaving here. We're going to carry on. I want to get through because it's horrible in our country. There's nothing in Honduras."

 

The coronavirus pandemic has battered Honduras' economy, which last year suffered its worst contraction on record.

 

The large contingent of Guatemalan security officers managed to stop the migrants from advancing beyond Vado Hondo, with perhaps as many as half of the people in the caravan dispersing into the nearby hills or heading back the way they came, according to a Reuters witness.

 

Elmer Espinal is traveling with his months-old daughter. He said they were tear gassed by the Guatemalan security forces.

 

"My daughter almost choked," said Espinal, a Honduran native. "I want a future for my girls ... there's no work over there in Honduras."

 

Authorities sent buses and trucks for migrants who wanted to voluntarily return home.

 

Even if the migrants do get past, Mexico is preparing to stop them at its southern border with hundreds of security forces, arguing it must contain the spread of the virus.

 

The robust response suggests that Democratic President-elect Joe Biden may initially benefit from the hard-line policies of outgoing Republican President Donald Trump, who made cracking down on illegal immigration a priority of his administration.

 

Video footage shared by the Guatemalan government showed hundreds of migrants, bounded by a hillside, pressing into a wall of security forces, which used sticks to repel the surge. An unspecified number of people were injured, authorities said.

 

During the chaotic melee, security forces fired off a tear gas canister and used a stun grenade to disperse the crowd, a Reuters photographer said.

 

Between Friday and Saturday, Guatemala had sent back almost 1,000 migrants entering from Honduras, the Guatemalan government said, as the caravan tried to advance toward Mexico.

 

On Saturday evening, the Mexican foreign ministry pressed Central American authorities to halt the caravan's progress, pointing to the need to contain the spread of COVID-19.

 

Mexico, it said, was committed to orderly and regulated migration and would oppose any form of unauthorized entry.

 

The first migrant caravan of the year comes less than a week before Biden takes office on Wednesday promising to adopt a more humane approach to migration than Trump.

 

Still, a Biden transition official, speaking on background, advised people not to make for the United States.

 

"Overcoming the challenges created by the chaotic and cruel policies of the last four years, and those presented by COVID-19, will take time," said the official.

 

"In the meantime, the journey to the United States remains extraordinarily dangerous, and those in the region should not believe anyone peddling the lie that our border will be open to everyone next month," the official added.

 

The incoming administration will work to address the root causes of migration, expand lawful pathways and rethink asylum processing, the official said.

 

Mexican and Central American authorities have coordinated security and public health measures in a bid to deter mass movement of people across the region.

 

(Reporting by Luis Echeverria in Vado Hondo and Sofia Menchu in Guatemala City; Additional reporting by Mimi Dwyer in Los Angeles and Laura Gottesdiener in Tapachula; Writing by Anthony Esposito; Editing by Nick Zieminski, Jonathan Oatis and Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-18

 

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[EVENKEEL]

Ah come on joe, let em all in. 

[Scott]

A post linking to social media has been removed. 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Ah come on joe, let em all in. 

Why not?  They're in this position because of the BS Americans did there.  It's our fault.  Let's man up and help these poor people.  Inhumane to do anything else.

 

https://thepanoptic.co.uk/2016/11/19/american-intervention-guatemala/

 

Quote

 

The devastating effects of American intervention in Guatemala

 

In 1954, a CIA-orchestrated coup d’etat put an end to the first ten years of democratically elected government Guatemala had ever experienced.

 

The US supported tactics of repression which would lead to the deaths of 200,000 civilians, and which would rekindle stark ethnic, economic, social and political divisions in society – legacies of colonialism – which the 1944-54 governments had gone a significant way to repairing.

 

Quote

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Jeffr2

[Enzian]

I know a fiscally conservative landlord in CA who opposes mass immigration, illegal or otherwise,, but who at the same time recognizes that mass immigration, while harmful to the general environment, will cause shortages in the rental housing market and drive up the rents he receives. Quite a dilemma. 

[EVENKEEL]

54 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why not?  They're in this position because of the BS Americans did there.  It's our fault.  Let's man up and help these poor people.  Inhumane to do anything else.

 

https://thepanoptic.co.uk/2016/11/19/american-intervention-guatemala/

 

 

 

I don't understand why biden doesn't want them. I thought Mr. Trump was the bad man, huh....

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

They'd do well to heed the warning of the Biden transition official. Covid has taken its toll on the job market. Friends of mine have lost jobs or had hours cut. I don't know where they'd expect to work. Particularly hit are retail, food, and hospitality, which is where they'd normally go.

 

Because of this, the rental market has also been hit. Friends tell me of many vacant properties. People have had to pack up and go move in with friends or family, unable to make their rent.

 

I'd like to take my Thai wife back with me in the next few years. I understand Trump has made that process more difficult, which Biden seeks to ease up on, yet this situation may make it difficult yet again. Her restaurant and hotel experience and great personality would go far in the aforementioned areas.

 

She often says she's worried if her English is good enough. I say uh, you'll be competing with many who have little to none.

[welovesundaysatspace]

38 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I thought Mr. Trump was the bad man, huh....

Is, not was. 

[Jeffr2]

46 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't understand why biden doesn't want them. I thought Mr. Trump was the bad man, huh....

Trump is the bad man.

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

They'd do well to heed the warning of the Biden transition official. Covid has taken its toll on the job market. Friends of mine have lost jobs or had hours cut. I don't know where they'd expect to work. Particularly hit are retail, food, and hospitality, which is where they'd normally go.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they've been groomed on what to say and expect from the generous gringos. Working won't be mandatory once they enter the system. 

[onthedarkside]

A post making a false claim and several ensuing replies have been removed.

[Poet]

6 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why not?  They're in this position because of the BS Americans did there.  It's our fault.  Let's man up and help these poor people.  Inhumane to do anything else.

 

https://thepanoptic.co.uk/2016/11/19/american-intervention-guatemala/

 

 

 

These migrants are from Honduras, not Guatemala.
 

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, Poet said:

These migrants are from Honduras, not Guatemala.
 

Same same:

 

https://theconversation.com/how-us-policy-in-honduras-set-the-stage-for-todays-migration-65935

 

Quote

 

How US policy in Honduras set the stage for today’s migration

 

U.S. military presence in Honduras and the roots of Honduran migration to the United States are closely linked. It began in the late 1890s, when U.S.-based banana companies first became active there. As historian Walter LaFeber writes in “Inevitable Revolutions: The United States in Central America,” American companies “built railroads, established their own banking systems, and bribed government officials at a dizzying pace.”

 

 

[Poet]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Same same

Yeah, but, you did actually get the country wrong, which is a pretty big miss.

Forgive me for suspecting that you are not paying much attention to detail and simply pasting links to articles you find by googling whatever thought happens to be in your head at that moment.

One of the nice things about forums is that they give people a chance to share well-considered, thought-out opinions, rather than simply increase their post count.

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Poet

[Jeffr2]

11 minutes ago, Poet said:

Yeah, but, you did actually get the country wrong, which is a pretty big miss.

Forgive me for suspecting that you are not paying much attention to detail and simply pasting links to articles you find by googling whatever thought happens to be in your head at that moment.

One of the nice things about forums is that they give people a chance to share well-considered, thought-out opinions, rather than simply increase their post count.

 

In the end, same same.  I've researched this a lot.  And been to every country in Central America.  Actually, spent a lot of time down there.

 

What I posted wasn't opinions.  It's historical facts.

[onthedarkside]

A post making false claims has been removed.

 

[JulesMad]

4 hours ago, Poet said:

These migrants are from Honduras, not Guatemala.
 

True, and Honduras is even further... It is about 2300 miles (3700 kms) from Honduras to usa border! Quite a walk for families, women and children; these people are desperate for a better life. Anyone who walks that distance and endure hardships along the way, deserve to be admitted in usa.
Out of humanitarian grounds alone.... (it seems that usa is getting a human president this time, so why not?)

[Tug]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm sure they've been groomed on what to say and expect from the generous gringos. Working won't be mandatory once they enter the system. 

Happy MLK day to everyone I wonder how much personal experience some posters have with Latinos I’ve had lots one of my tenants is a Latino lady single mom nurse btw she got covid on the job and STILLS pays her rent she is recovering thank god one tough respectable lady and if you ask me actually a hero in my book if this group of migrants reaches our border their asylum claims will be and rightfully so imo investigated and delt with on their merits as a decent nation and people should 

[biggles45]

The Democrats have spent a few years raising the expectations of these people in latin america so its hardly surprising that with Biden/Harris taking office they are on the move. Probably going to see a lot more. 

[shdmn]

35 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

The Democrats have spent a few years raising the expectations of these people in latin america so its hardly surprising that with Biden/Harris taking office they are on the move. Probably going to see a lot more. 

About a week from now you people will suddenly be concerned about deficits again too.  ????

Edited January 18, 2021 by shdmn

[simple1]

6 hours ago, biggles45 said:

The Democrats have spent a few years raising the expectations of these people in latin america so its hardly surprising that with Biden/Harris taking office they are on the move. Probably going to see a lot more. 

 

How so? Exactly what have the Democrats done by way of changes to law to facilitate illegal immigration?

[EVENKEEL]

8 hours ago, Tug said:

Happy MLK day to everyone I wonder how much personal experience some posters have with Latinos I’ve had lots one of my tenants is a Latino lady single mom nurse btw she got covid on the job and STILLS pays her rent she is recovering thank god one tough respectable lady and if you ask me actually a hero in my book if this group of migrants reaches our border their asylum claims will be and rightfully so imo investigated and delt with on their merits as a decent nation and people should 

Your comment has zero to do with illegals. Zero, nada. I also rent a house out to Mexicans, the guy grew up around the corner. That's right a legal citizen. My guys pay their rent as well, wouldn't call them heros.

[simon43]

22 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Why not?  They're in this position because of the BS Americans did there.  It's our fault.  Let's man up and help these poor people.  Inhumane to do anything else.

 

https://thepanoptic.co.uk/2016/11/19/american-intervention-guatemala/

 

 

 

Just to comment, the original article was about Hondurans fleeing Honduras, not about Guatamalans fleeing Guatamala.  But I guess the USA also were up to no good in Honduras some time back....

[Tug]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Your comment has zero to do with illegals. Zero, nada. I also rent a house out to Mexicans, the guy grew up around the corner. That's right a legal citizen. My guys pay their rent as well, wouldn't call them heros.

Do your tenants work in the medical field taking care of the sick?are they single parents taking care of their kids did they catch covid doing their job taking care of the sick and still have the moral strength to pay their rent?that sir is why I have so much respect for her anyone seeking asylum in the USA deserves to be heard and checked out it’s the charitable right thing to do it’s also our immigration law

[Enzian]

My question has to do with logic, a reductio ad absurdam if you will. We can agree that there are millions of people who "deserve" to escape the horrible conditions in their home countries, but no one talks much about rational limits. Are we to let half of Central America into the USA? Why not? They are suffering and they deserve it after all. But why just Central America? Just because they are relatively close? What sense does that make? I would guess that 20 million Burmese, 3 million Cambodians, 10 million Vietnamese, 50 million Filipinos, and many others, all "deserve" and would be happy to come to the USA. Why discriminate against them just because they are further away? We have airplanes. O course, there might be effects on the environment of the USA, but should we care?

Also, for example, under the present conditions half of Tunisia "deserves" to be in Italy. Of course, 15 % of Italians live in something close to dire poverty; but is that a reason to stop the boats? 

And all this assumes the poor are always worthy and deserving, that there are no bad actors. Hamlet observed that if we give every man what he "deserves", who would avoid being whipped? But I'll leave that aside.

[Jeffr2]

26 minutes ago, Enzian said:

My question has to do with logic, a reductio ad absurdam if you will. We can agree that there are millions of people who "deserve" to escape the horrible conditions in their home countries, but no one talks much about rational limits. Are we to let half of Central America into the USA? Why not? They are suffering and they deserve it after all. But why just Central America? Just because they are relatively close? What sense does that make? I would guess that 20 million Burmese, 3 million Cambodians, 10 million Vietnamese, 50 million Filipinos, and many others, all "deserve" and would be happy to come to the USA. Why discriminate against them just because they are further away? We have airplanes. O course, there might be effects on the environment of the USA, but should we care?

Also, for example, under the present conditions half of Tunisia "deserves" to be in Italy. Of course, 15 % of Italians live in something close to dire poverty; but is that a reason to stop the boats? 

And all this assumes the poor are always worthy and deserving, that there are no bad actors. Hamlet observed that if we give every man what he "deserves", who would avoid being whipped? But I'll leave that aside.

Trump was one of the biggest problems.  Cutting aid to these countries.  What should happen is to fix the problem there, not deal with migrants at our border.

 

Sadly, Trump ruined things again.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/09/17/761266169/trump-froze-aid-to-guatemala-now-programs-are-shutting-down

 

The reason: a decision in April by President Trump to freeze $450 million in U.S. foreign aid to Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador — what's known as the Northern Triangle — over what he described as their failure to stem the outflow of northbound migrants.

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

Do your tenants work in the medical field taking care of the sick?are they single parents taking care of their kids did they catch covid doing their job taking care of the sick and still have the moral strength to pay their rent?that sir is why I have so much respect for her anyone seeking asylum in the USA deserves to be heard and checked out it’s the charitable right thing to do it’s also our immigration law

Come on, my tenants are better than your tenant is where you're going with this. Lots of new tenants coming your way.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by EVENKEEL

[onthedarkside]

 

Biden to propose overhaul of immigration laws on first day in office

 

President-elect Joe Biden will roll out a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s immigration laws the day he is inaugurated, including an eight-year pathway to citizenship for immigrants without legal status and an expansion of refugee admissions, along with an enforcement plan that deploys technology to patrol the border.

 

Biden’s legislative proposal, which will be sent to Congress on Wednesday, also includes a heavy focus on addressing the root causes of migration from Central America, a key part of Biden’s foreign policy portfolio when he served as vice president.

 

The centerpiece of the plan from Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala D. Harris is the eight-year pathway, which would put millions of qualifying immigrants in a temporary status for five years and then grant them a green card once they meet certain requirements such as a background check and payment of taxes. They would be able to apply for citizenship three years later.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-immigration-plan/2021/01/18/f0526824-59a8-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html

[Jeffr2]

35 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

 

Biden to propose overhaul of immigration laws on first day in office

 

President-elect Joe Biden will roll out a sweeping overhaul of the nation’s immigration laws the day he is inaugurated, including an eight-year pathway to citizenship for immigrants without legal status and an expansion of refugee admissions, along with an enforcement plan that deploys technology to patrol the border.

 

Biden’s legislative proposal, which will be sent to Congress on Wednesday, also includes a heavy focus on addressing the root causes of migration from Central America, a key part of Biden’s foreign policy portfolio when he served as vice president.

 

The centerpiece of the plan from Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala D. Harris is the eight-year pathway, which would put millions of qualifying immigrants in a temporary status for five years and then grant them a green card once they meet certain requirements such as a background check and payment of taxes. They would be able to apply for citizenship three years later.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-immigration-plan/2021/01/18/f0526824-59a8-11eb-a976-bad6431e03e2_story.html

I saw a video of a debate with Ronald Regan.  Can't remember if it was '76 or '80.  I'll try to find it.  Guess what they were debating?  How to do immigration reform.

 

This BS has been going on for decades.  The laws need to be adjusted desperately, but racism is very strong in the US.  Along with misinformation.  And in the end, they just kick the can down the road...again.

 

Great news and I hope Biden and Harris can get this through!!!!  We are, after all, a nation of immigrants.  Well...most Americans. LOL

[EVENKEEL]

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/migrant-caravan-biden-pledge-suspend-deportations-100-days

 

Guess someone is giving these folks false hopes, wonder who?

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by onthedarkside
weblink corrected