Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status, sparking row

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

I fully take your point. 

 

For example in many world summits (like the next climate summit organized by the UK, I think) France will have two seats : as France and as a EU member! 

 

 

 

Basically, we can both have our cake and eat it. 

 

I know of a country who'd like the same, but just couldn't.. 

 

 

do you at all vaguely understand what this issue is about?

France two seats. Sitting there with EU stamped on you front and being France?

 

bah bah boh boh

 

[onebir]

On 1/21/2021 at 12:44 PM, snoop1130 said:

The report said Britain was reluctant to grant full status to EU diplomats in London because it did not want to set a precedent in the eyes of other international organisations.

 

The EU argues it is not a typical international organisation.

 

“It has been conferred substantial competences by its member states, has the power to adopt legislation binding on its member states, has its own decision-making institutions and its own system of judicial control, and has established a common currency,” Stano said.

Hmm, sounding a bit like a United States of Europe* there... Why not admit the reality and make it easier for the Brits???

 

*except it's the MEPs who get to elect the Commission President. Not sure if  that's "representative representative democracy" or "democracy twice removed" (like those cousins you just can't get rid of).

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

 " suited them " perhaps it did in past tense,since britain left the eu things have changed probably due to frances attitude.

Nonsense, blaming France for the change in Britain's attitude. The reason is home politics.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, blaming France for the change in Britain's attitude. The reason is home politics.

And former eu diplomats refusing to pay their parking tickets claiming dip!omatic immunity.

[vinny41]

 

Joint Statement of the Spokespersons of the Foreign Ministries of Germany, France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States on the Situation in Libya (21 January):

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/libya/2436200

 

No mention of the EU Ambassador in the statement, Have the German,French and Italian Foreign Ministries been naughty boys for publishing this statement without including reference to the EU Comission

 

 

 

[Susco]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

So, the EU goes around and recruits their diplomats from their member countries?

 

 

I think you got that right, and they are very selective in that as well

[candide]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, blaming France for the change in Britain's attitude. The reason is home politics.

And from reading posts in this thread, it seems to work quite well.

[Pro1Expat]

I was reading an article on this subject earlier today. Apparently, and this is only what I have read, the people they are not giving the Diplomatic status is that although they are in the EU body they are not legally considered as Diplomats in the same sense as National Government officials are. Don't ask me the subtle difference I don't know but there is some good, albeit lengthy, documentation on the internet regarding this.

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

 

Joint Statement of the Spokespersons of the Foreign Ministries of Germany, France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States on the Situation in Libya (21 January):

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/libya/2436200

 

No mention of the EU Ambassador in the statement, Have the German,French and Italian Foreign Ministries been naughty boys for publishing this statement without including reference to the EU Commission

What's your point here? The EU is not so much involved in Libya we all know of it. 

[herfiehandbag]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

Other than optics, I don't even know why this is an issue.  Every EU diplomat has been nominated to represent their sovereign state to the EU.  Seems like their diplomatic status ties back to their respective sovereign state.  In that respect, their assignment to the EU isn't relevant. 

 

They're still a French diplomat, or a Spanish diplomat or ..  or ..  Answering first to France, Spain, etc.  Who are ultimately responsible for their behavior, care and feeding as diplomats.

The EU wants that status, quite simply because it bolsters their pretence to be a Federal state.

[kingdong]

28 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

The EU wants that status, quite simply because it bolsters their pretence to be a Federal state.

As it goes down the gurgler.

[vinny41]

8 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Not at all, they are sworn in as EU diplomats and employed by the EU. 

 

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

link please 

As you have told me if you can't provide a link to backup your claims then your post should be considered fake

[herfiehandbag]

7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Not at all, they are sworn in as EU diplomats and employed by the EU. 

In which case, presumably, all the diplomatic missions from the member states are redundant, and can lose their diplomatic status. Their role taken over by the EU mission.

 

Should save a lot of money - one of the benefits of a federal state in Europe. Imagine, 25 prestigious properties suddenly coming onto the market in London, as well as Washington and every other major capital city

 

I can't imagine it being well received on the Quay D'Orsay though!

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As you have told me if you can't provide a link to backup your claims then your post should be considered fake

Well you made the first claim and this is just my answer considering that your claim is not supported by evidence. 

 

So I ask you to back your original claim first, and lacking that, withdraw ????

[vinny41]

8 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Not at all, they are sworn in as EU diplomats and employed by the EU. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Well you made the first claim and this is just my answer considering that your claim is not supported by evidence. 

 

So I ask you to back your original claim first, and lacking that, withdraw ????

You getting confused its you that made the claim as you can't provide a link your post must be fake

[Hi from France]

9 hours ago, impulse said:

Other than optics, I don't even know why this is an issue.  Every EU diplomat has been nominated to represent their sovereign state to the EU.  Seems like their diplomatic status ties back to their respective sovereign state.  In that respect, their assignment to the EU isn't relevant. 

 

They're still a French diplomat, or a Spanish diplomat or ..  or ..  Answering first to France, Spain, etc.  Who are ultimately responsible for their behavior, care and feeding as diplomats.

as I said, I think this claim is false unless you can source it

[vinny41]

38 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

as I said, I think this claim is false unless you can source it

The only person making false claims is yourself , still havn't seen any sources to support your claims

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

 

[vinny41]

What diplomats do

The French ambassador in a foreign country (or the permanent representation to an international organisation) is appointed by the President of the Republic in a meeting of the Council of Ministers on the suggestion of the Minister of Foreign Affairs

The ambassador assumes the complete powers of the state in his posting. He is responsible for all that is of interest to France in the country to which he has been posted

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/the-ministry-and-its-network/missions-and-structure/what-diplomats-do/

 

Regarding France A French ambassador is appointed by President Macron and represents France in the country that they have been posted to.

[melvinmelvin]

17 hours ago, impulse said:

Other than optics, I don't even know why this is an issue.  Every EU diplomat has been nominated to represent their sovereign state to the EU.  Seems like their diplomatic status ties back to their respective sovereign state.  In that respect, their assignment to the EU isn't relevant. 

 

They're still a French diplomat, or a Spanish diplomat or ..  or ..  Answering first to France, Spain, etc.  Who are ultimately responsible for their behavior, care and feeding as diplomats.

 

hmmm,

things take a change, Brexit threads now overflow with lack of knowledge

 

the above post is hopefully not taken as gospel by any readers

 

[onthedarkside]

A post with several quotes from unidentified forum sources has been removed.

[Hi from France]

9 hours ago, vinny41 said:

What diplomats do

The French ambassador in a foreign country (or the permanent representation to an international organisation) is appointed by the President of the Republic in a meeting of the Council of Ministers on the suggestion of the Minister of Foreign Affairs

The ambassador assumes the complete powers of the state in his posting. He is responsible for all that is of interest to France in the country to which he has been posted

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/the-ministry-and-its-network/missions-and-structure/what-diplomats-do/

 

Regarding France A French ambassador is appointed by President Macron and represents France in the country that they have been posted to.

Your post is off-topic, it says nothing about EU ambassadors and diplomats. 

[vinny41]

21 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Not at all, they are sworn in as EU diplomats and employed by the EU. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Your post is off-topic, it says nothing about EU ambassadors and diplomats. 

It you that is claiming that all EU diplomats and employed by the EU which is incorrect and you haven't provided any source to backup your claim

Lets make is simply for you the French Ambassador to the UK is Catherine Colonna  appointment by President Macron, funded by France The ambassador assumes the complete powers of the French state in her  posting. She is responsible for all that is of interest to France in the UK. She has full diplomatic status as she represents a country(France)

 

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU he doesn't represent a state as he represents an international body. The EU, its Delegation and staff will receive the privileges and immunities necessary to enable them to carry out their work in the UK effectively.”

 

[Hi from France]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU 

So it took a while, but here we are, thanks! 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

So it took a while, but here we are, thanks! 

at last 

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU he doesn't represent a state as he represents an international body. The EU, its Delegation and staff will receive the privileges and immunities necessary to enable them to carry out their work in the UK effectively.”

[candide]

21 hours ago, impulse said:

Other than optics, I don't even know why this is an issue.  Every EU diplomat has been nominated to represent their sovereign state to the EU.  Seems like their diplomatic status ties back to their respective sovereign state.  In that respect, their assignment to the EU isn't relevant. 

 

They're still a French diplomat, or a Spanish diplomat or ..  or ..  Answering first to France, Spain, etc.  Who are ultimately responsible for their behavior, care and feeding as diplomats.

That was the case before the Lisbon treaty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_External_Action_Service

[Hi from France]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

at last 

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU

once more, I'm fine with you agreeing 

 

Now you want to talk about something else

Quote

he doesn't represent a state as he represents an international body

this has already been discussed at length here, the EU is much more than "an international body", for example the Eurozone has a central bank while a lot of countries do not. The total value of money available in euro is far beyond the british pound.

 

Likewise the EU’s 143 delegations around the world have all been granted a status equivalent to that of diplomatic missions of states

 

.. and even you could agree the EU argues is not a typical international organisation and has the muscle to command the highest standard of respect.

 

 

 

I will not comment further, except that it does not matter so much to me, as long a the subject of this thread "Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status" is resolved with the UK giving EU diplomats full status or suffer the consequences.

 

.... and I bet the UK will be very very quick to back down, while doing its best to save face.

 

 

 

 

@candide thank you !

 

.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

once more, I'm fine with you agreeing 

 

Now you want to talk about something else

this has already been discussed at length here, the EU is much more than "an international body", for example the Eurozone has a central bank while a lot of countries do not. The total value of money available in euro is far beyond the british pound.

 

Likewise the EU’s 143 delegations around the world have all been granted a status equivalent to that of diplomatic missions of states

 

.. and even you could agree the EU argues is not a typical international organisation and has the muscle to command the highest standard of respect.

 

 

 

I will not comment further, except that it does not matter so much to me, as long a the subject of this thread "Britain resists giving EU diplomats full status" is resolved with the UK giving EU diplomats full status or suffer the consequences.

 

.... and I bet the UK will be very very quick to back down, while doing its best to save face.

 

 

 

 

@candide thank you !

 

.

I suggest you read the forum rules regarding quoting other members posts

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/terms/

 

You have broken the rules regarding my post which you have quote so here is the full post without your selected editing

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU he doesn't represent a state as he represents an international body. The EU, its Delegation and staff will receive the privileges and immunities necessary to enable them to carry out their work in the UK effectively.”

 

 

[Hi from France]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I suggest you read the forum rules regarding quoting other members posts

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/terms/

 

You have broken the rules regarding my post which you have quote so here is the full post without your selected editing

João Vale de Almeida is the EU ambassador to the UK appointed by the EU, funded by the EU he doesn't represent a state as he represents an international body. The EU, its Delegation and staff will receive the privileges and immunities necessary to enable them to carry out their work in the UK effectively.”

 

you post contain several claims, each claim deserves to be checked, I think its fully compliant with forum rules (and it's just above in case anyone wants to read it over).

 

Now if you want to continue the debate, you're welcome ???? 

 

 

 

[Hi from France]

Up one notch.. 

 

Quote

It’s not a friendly signal,” he said, “the first one that the United Kingdom has sent to us immediately after leaving the European Union. If things continue like this there are no good prospects.”

What does "not friendly" mean in diplomatic linguo? 

Quote

It is claimed the lower status the government is willing to grant the EU’s delegation would not impact on the ability of their staff to carry out their job with only an audience with the Queen being the major difference.

 

 

Seems like the Who's song, "we're not gonna take it" 

Quote

But Borrell warned that the attitude in London was “unacceptable”.

 

He said: “You know, we do not ask for something new or we don’t ask for special treatment. The external status of the European Union is recognised by countries and international organisations around the world. And we expect that United kingdom to treat the European Union delegations accordingly, and without delay.

In the scale of diplomatic language, I think this is pretty strong

 

... the article says that the UK is likely to make a U-turn quickly 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/brussels-warns-britain-against-downgrading-eu-ambassador-status

Edited January 25, 2021 by Hi from France