TAT forced to face reality: more than a third of the Thai tourist industry has gone bust

[Golden Oldie]

What rarely seems to get mentioned is the destructive effect of the $100,000 Covid insurance, plus the extra health insurance requirement simply to enter the country, on top of the extortionate amounts for quarantine hotels. For someone in the 61-65 year-old group it would be approximately 60,000 baht for covid insurance, 30,000 for health insurance, 36,000 quarantine hotel, total 126,000. (£3,062/$4,191). At my age, 72, it would total 209,000 baht (£5,097/$6,973) - just to enter the country. And these costs are jus to visit, it doesn't matter how long your visa is for. Thailand simply isn't worth it anymore. It's way past it's sell-by date, and visitors will simply go elsewhere if and when travel restrictions are finally lifted. If this government and elite weren't so determined to trouser enormous amounts of bent money, the country might have some tourist future, but as anyone who has lived here for longer than a fortnight knows, that will never, ever happen.

[Johnthplumb]

5 minutes ago, Golden Oldie said:

What rarely seems to get mentioned is the destructive effect of the $100,000 Covid insurance, plus the extra health insurance requirement simply to enter the country, on top of the extortionate amounts for quarantine hotels. For someone in the 61-65 year-old group it would be approximately 60,000 baht for covid insurance, 30,000 for health insurance, 36,000 quarantine hotel, total 126,000. (£3,062/$4,191). At my age, 72, it would total 209,000 baht (£5,097/$6,973) - just to enter the country. And these costs are jus to visit, it doesn't matter how long your visa is for. Thailand simply isn't worth it anymore. It's way past it's sell-by date, and visitors will simply go elsewhere if and when travel restrictions are finally lifted. If this government and elite weren't so determined to trouser enormous amounts of bent money, the country might have some tourist future, but as anyone who has lived here for longer than a fortnight knows, that will never, ever happen.

Plus the return flight costs, sounds like more than £6000.00 fo you.

 

[bermondburi]

1 hour ago, yoksot said:

Things will only get WORSE.as the governments make it more difficult to visit Thailand. I have spent most of the past 30 years living in Thailand Using a non Immigrant Visa, I was one of the last people to be issued at the Birmingham consulate before it closed down.

 I then did the 400 mile round trip to the Consulate in HULL. only to have my application to renew my Non Immigrant Visa refused. I was also refused a Double entry tourist Visa, being issued with Single entry ONLY.

  I explained that I had a daughter and Bank accounts in Thailand for OVER 28 years. My daughter is now 18 years old and I am paying for her to attend Medical School. yet I am being restricted to the amount of time I can visit my daughter.

  Now they are insisting on OVERPRICED health insurance, During my time in Thailand I have covered all my medical costs and on the 2 rare ocassions that that spent time in hospital I have covered all the Costs. I live in a remote village in North East Thailand where Medical costs are only pennies.

  If Thailand wants to bring back visitors and tourists it must start by making it easier to get the necessary Visa applied for, and offer reasonably priced insurance if it is to remain compulsory.

   Welcome to Thailand, IF YOU ARE ALLOWED IN.

                                                                      Food for Thought

                                                                      The Eye of Lamai  

Can't you get a retirement visa, you don't have to be in Thailand all the time. 

[Blumpie]

1 hour ago, yoksot said:

Things will only get WORSE.as the governments make it more difficult to visit Thailand. I have spent most of the past 30 years living in Thailand Using a non Immigrant Visa, I was one of the last people to be issued at the Birmingham consulate before it closed down.

 I then did the 400 mile round trip to the Consulate in HULL. only to have my application to renew my Non Immigrant Visa refused. I was also refused a Double entry tourist Visa, being issued with Single entry ONLY.

  I explained that I had a daughter and Bank accounts in Thailand for OVER 28 years. My daughter is now 18 years old and I am paying for her to attend Medical School. yet I am being restricted to the amount of time I can visit my daughter.

  Now they are insisting on OVERPRICED health insurance, During my time in Thailand I have covered all my medical costs and on the 2 rare ocassions that that spent time in hospital I have covered all the Costs. I live in a remote village in North East Thailand where Medical costs are only pennies.

  If Thailand wants to bring back visitors and tourists it must start by making it easier to get the necessary Visa applied for, and offer reasonably priced insurance if it is to remain compulsory.

   Welcome to Thailand, IF YOU ARE ALLOWED IN.

                                                                      Food for Thought

                                                                      The Eye of Lamai  

Holy moly I am so sorry.  

[Blumpie]

29 minutes ago, Golden Oldie said:

What rarely seems to get mentioned is the destructive effect of the $100,000 Covid insurance, plus the extra health insurance requirement simply to enter the country, on top of the extortionate amounts for quarantine hotels. For someone in the 61-65 year-old group it would be approximately 60,000 baht for covid insurance, 30,000 for health insurance, 36,000 quarantine hotel, total 126,000. (£3,062/$4,191). At my age, 72, it would total 209,000 baht (£5,097/$6,973) - just to enter the country. And these costs are jus to visit, it doesn't matter how long your visa is for. Thailand simply isn't worth it anymore. It's way past it's sell-by date, and visitors will simply go elsewhere if and when travel restrictions are finally lifted. If this government and elite weren't so determined to trouser enormous amounts of bent money, the country might have some tourist future, but as anyone who has lived here for longer than a fortnight knows, that will never, ever happen.

You are absolutely correct.  The insurance is a scam, as I mentioned when it first came out (and most others).  It's a cash grab by the government.  

Thailand used to be a place to get great cheap food, reasonable accommodation and enjoy the pleasant weather.  I can't see it returning either.  They've gone from second world to first world and it is, in so many ways, a third world country.  

[jimithai]

I speculate the percentage being quoted is super conservative and more than 1/2 of the Thai's effected by loss of tourism

[kiwikeith]

On 23/01/2021 at 4:53 PM, ezzra said:

Well. allow tourists to come in following a proper PCR test, and if some have got the vaccine go easy on them and not this draconian 14 days incarceration costing lot of money, show flexibility and willingness to accommodate the above mentioned and oh yeah, stop silly tax on non existing tourist and things will get better...

Just to keep you informed, a new community case has been discovered in New Zealand yesterday, 10 days after being released from managed quarantine and testing negative twice,before release. They don't know if this is late incubation or an infection caught during Quarantine. 

 

They suspect it is the highly infectious newer strain. 

The person has visited over 30 locations in the past 10 days. 

The country is now on high alert, the person involved has been vigilant using contact tracing applications. 

 

The country is now braced for another outbreak which could be from the new variant. 

So I believe that border controls should be tightening not slacking off and the same for quarantine. 

 

New Zealand is now on a wake up call that complacency could plunge the country into a severe outbreak. 

 

Slacking the rules for tourists in Thailand is not going to help, sad to say. 

The government should be planning ways to help these people out. 

Instead money is not going to this cause and it should be. 

We all want things to be normal, but until this virus fades out, we'll have to wait. 

Thailand can not afford to slacken further and risk more devastation. 

 

But they should be helping out the people with financial aid. 

 

After all they have plenty for submarines and moon missions and high speed Railway. 

[daveAustin]

On 1/23/2021 at 4:42 AM, spidermike007 said:

Free quarantine? Might be a good place to start.

It's not just the cost though Mike -- time is the main issue. Who has two weeks to spare sat in a hotel? Thailand has some tough decisions to make going forward because it'll be a year or more before they're vaccinated. Open borders to the vaccinated, quarantine-free, and potentially risk infiltration, or stay closed and impoverish many...

 

They also forget the plight of other nations, many of which are forbidding their citizens to fly, or making them quarantine on return. Even if all borders were to magically open, it'd be a slow return to any sort of norm.

 

Anywayyy, the army and those people in power are not overly concerned since it doesn't really impact them + they prefer it this way if truth be told. Sad.

[kiwikeith]

4 hours ago, Blumpie said:

You are absolutely correct.  The insurance is a scam, as I mentioned when it first came out (and most others).  It's a cash grab by the government.  

Thailand used to be a place to get great cheap food, reasonable accommodation and enjoy the pleasant weather.  I can't see it returning either.  They've gone from second world to first world and it is, in so many ways, a third world country.  

UR correct, the insurance is a cash grab by Thai companies and includes the wealthiest family in Thailand, whom I suspect pulls the strings of the glorious one. 

A simple entry charge of 1000 Baht or more would solve this, managed properly. 

With the new covid variant, letting tourists in now under reduced quarantine ect would possibly devastate the already devastated. 

 

However ripping people off seems to be the world wide new norm, just airfares alone are horrendous. 

 

Travelling the globe, well I guess we've got to wait this out and hope the thugs die of lead poisoning from shooting themselves in the foot. 

[Albert Zweistein]

20 hours ago, PatOngo said:

No! They are BS'ers! Get with the program! ????

Bull Seducers ?

[AdamRich]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:46 PM, YetAnother said:

so what was that optimistic outlook based on ? no facts, just baseless hope ?

Same as my girlfriend keeps telling me I will be able to come back home to Thailand soon. I ask her what her basis for saying it is and all she can say is she thinks so. 

[scunner]

My inner cynic says that the Powers That Be don't really mind all those beach front hotels and other resort businesses going belly up, as they and their friends will be able to fill their boots with cheap land and property - satangs on the Baht - kerching

[stigar]

All my silly farang friends is bancrupt after being so silly to invest in berrbars.I warned them but their gf make them belive it.Now thet dont even have money to tickets going back home.I have never ever invest money in thailand..And will never.Me and my wife spend money for food and she have a house in rayong where we live.Quiet and good life with no drama.In june we go back to norway,and stay there.Thailand will be just for holidsy sometimes for both of us.

 

[jomtienisgood]

8 hours ago, jimithai said:

I speculate the percentage being quoted is super conservative and more than 1/2 of the Thai's effected by loss of tourism

I'm not so sure about your speculations; Tourism representing , depending on sources somewhere between 6 & 16%...... 

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, AdamRich said:

Same as my girlfriend keeps telling me I will be able to come back home to Thailand soon. I ask her what her basis for saying it is and all she can say is she thinks so. 

It seems that , at least , she thinks...????

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, AdamRich said:

Same as my girlfriend keeps telling me I will be able to come back home to Thailand soon. I ask her what her basis for saying it is and all she can say is she thinks so. 

In fact she is correct in her thinking.

Anybody can now return to Thailand.  Obviously you would need to meet the current CoE requirements which impose a 15-day quarantaine at an ASQ Hotel.  But when willing to do that, anybody can now return to Thailand.

 

[KamalaRider]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:22 AM, mfd101 said:

You would think that one's self-respect would encourage one to pluck numbers that might arguably bear some relation to real-world possibilities ... But no.

 

Meantime, all the pandemic news worldwide is getting worse, not better. Fears that the latest variants are not merely more infectious but more deadly too, and that the first round of vaccinations may be less effective than thought. Those fears may not turn out to be well-founded, but they are not entirely baseless for the moment.

Stop spreading false facts, the first round of vaccination is based on two times, a month between and it's still 95-96% effective. What you are clearly missing is that very old people near death also got the shot but some died, to Covid19? They got the shot based on fear that the health care system would be accused for killing off our elderly if they didn't give them the vaccine. Please all, wait with your verdicts about the vaccine until the people supposed to live for 20 or more years are given the vaccine. 

[simtemple]

Pride comes before the fall. Boy was the fall well deserved in Thailand's case? The arrogance displayed beggared belief. Who are the buffalo now? 

[pegman]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:12 PM, KarenBravo said:

 

I think that applies to most countries politicians. The USA and UK come to mind.

It's not fair to lump the Thai gov in with those from the U.K. or U.S.A. For the most part they have kept their people safe and alive which can't be said about the incompetents in those other places .

[Fex Bluse]

6 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

I'm not so sure about your speculations; Tourism representing , depending on sources somewhere between 6 & 16%...... 

This was long the official figures from the State. However, they finally admitted recently that it was at least 20%. And that is official tourist money. Does not include gray market and black market spending. It's likely over 30% Thai GDP, especially when sex is included. 

 

Of course, they Thais are embarrassed by such a heavy reliance on foreign tourism. 

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

This was long the official figures from the State. However, they finally admitted recently that it was at least 20%. And that is official tourist money. Does not include gray market and black market spending. It's likely over 30% Thai GDP, especially when sex is included. 

 

Of course, they Thais are embarrassed by such a heavy reliance on foreign tourism. 

Ahhhhhhh. I didn't include sex as this is a daily occupation. 555555

[KarenBravo]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

It's not fair to lump the Thai gov in with those from the U.K. or U.S.A. For the most part they have kept their people safe and alive which can't be said about the incompetents in those other places .

Maybe you should read the post I replied to. 

Are you saying that UK and US politicians don't do things to look good and generally toe the party line?

[rott]

3 hours ago, pegman said:

It's not fair to lump the Thai gov in with those from the U.K. or U.S.A. For the most part they have kept their people safe and alive which can't be said about the incompetents in those other places .

Possibly it's not that simple. 

Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Singapore and Malaysia all seem to have contained things How does Thailand compare to them.? Whether the first three have the infrastructure to produce accurate figures is open to debate. 

[NoComment]

The Chinese will be allowed to buy buy buy.

The good people of Thailand forced to sell sell sell

Mandarin lessons mandatory in schools????

[HouTex]

Doubtful they will require Mandarin in schools

 

Same as the USA, they want uneducated people to be a permanent underclass

[jomtienisgood]

6 hours ago, NoComment said:

The Chinese will be allowed to buy buy buy.

The good people of Thailand forced to sell sell sell

Mandarin lessons mandatory in schools????

Not mandatory but very advisable... Also valid for Europe....

[Joseph98765]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:57 PM, stigar said:

Ur rigth.My wife is a cardealer..she have 4 shops in thailand.She never influated about the covid she says.The only thing is that more and more carbuyers cant get credit.But her sale is stable.Her last year profit was 128 million bath.Anyway she will move to norway with me.Her family will run her business in thailand.

All this to tell us that your wife earns 128 millions? be carefull with that...I know a Spanish guy who was murdered when he spoke out loud that he had 20 mill.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30312934#:~:text=Artur Segarra Princep%2C accused in,quotation from the dying Jesus.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Joseph98765

[gazzzz]

On 1/23/2021 at 7:57 AM, spidermike007 said:

What will the future of tourism look like here? I am guessing 5 to 20 million annually, at most, during our lifetimes. If Thailand is fortunate. That means thousands of hotels will go under. Trillions of dollars in tourism infrastructure lost? It will have a minor effect on some very wealthy people. But, who will carry the burden of most of this? The common man. Tourism is not returning to Thailand anytime soon. If you think about it, the group that comprised perhaps 80% of all arrivals (lower to middle income Chinese, Malaysian and Indians) are the ones who have been hardest hit by this idiotic worldwide economic shutdown. Tourism in Thailand will never recover to even close to it's former levels, and that leaves millions out of work. Most countries will still be required to have Covid letters, as the virus is still raging in many countries. And some countries will not issue that letter (impossible to get in the US). Plus, will the mandatory health insurance still be required? Vaccinations? Will it be even stricter than before? And just what are people returning to, or coming to? Will restaurants be open? How about nightlife? Trillions of baht are going to be lost here. Annually. Tourism will NEVER fully recover. Not in our lifetimes. Too much timidity. Too much cowardice. Too little juice and creativity. Such small minds. Expect 300,000 tourists in the 12 months following the end of restrictions. 2 million the following year, and no more than 5 million tourists a year for several years after that. This is realistic. International tourism here will never be the same, post Covid. 

 

And apart from those who die of hunger due to the economy shutdown, hundreds of millions are driven into severe poverty, suicide, in Scandinavia cancer screening and other important things are beng postponed due to the corona, most likely resulting in a higher death rate for some diseases, people are losing their businesses, their homes, more divorces, more drinking, etc., etc., etc. - just so that the 96 old blind, deaf, and senile Olga can live 6 months longer. Those dying of starvation are mostly children with a long life ahead of them.
 

Will take some time to see how this all shakes out, but it is my opinion that the economic fallout from the inane economic shutdown, is going to be 200 times worse than Covid itself, and the recovery "ramp up" will be long and excruciating. Far longer than they say. It will not just bounce back. In the history of the world, as far as we know, there has never been a deliberate worldwide economic shutdown. It is light years beyond dumb. The "slowdown" will last well into 2021, for certain. And some industries may never come back, or will be a pale shadow of their former selves. No doubt homelessness will skyrocket in the US. Tourism in Thailand will never recover to even close to it's former levels, and that leaves millions out of work.

 

This is certainly the first time in history (first wave excluded) that most of the worlds economies were deliberately shut down. Even during all 51 of the major bubonic plagues, between 541AD In Europe and Western Asia, and the last one to happen in China in 1946, the Japanese smallpox plague of AD735, the Mexican smallpox plague of 1519, the massive influenza plague of 1616, which took an estimated 50% of more, of the local populations in Europe, and North America, the Russian cholera epidemic of 1846, the worldwide flu pandemic of 1889, and of course the infamous Spanish flu of 1918, which took out an estimated 20-100 million people, ports were locked down, and some isolation was done, but economies were never totally shut down. Makes one wonder what it truly going on. 

Looking into the future, one can only guess what it will look like. What about concerts? Will people be willing to hang out with crowds of 20,000, at a cost of hundreds of dollars for a crappy seat? Same with sports. Will people be willing to go into a stadium or an arena with 20,000 to 100,000 people close together, and pay crazy money for a seat? Movie theaters? Cruise ships? Will the hordes just start descending on restaurants again, and pay inane prices for a gourmet meal? The list goes on, and on and on.

 

And in the end, hundreds millions worldwide could end up far poorer than they were before. And tens of millions could end up starving to death, compared to perhaps 500,000 or so total deaths worldwide from Covid. OK. The rich stay safe and financially secure. And the rest of us? And those of us who are self employed, without fortunes in the bank?

There are so many unanswered questions, it boggles the mind. One thing is for certain. Thailand will be feeling the effects of this for a very, very long time. So will the rest of the world.

Tend to agree with all you have written. Here in the UK the lock down is mainly aimed at the hospitals not having the sight of people in car parks being treated i.e. overflowing, and not enough staff to cover all the patients if we open up the economy. It's not helped by people not following the rules/guidance especially in supermarkets. British attitude to masks, "I'm not wearing one it makes me look stupid!" Regarding pubs I don't care what anybody says when you are on the lash there is no such thing as social distancing. I haven't been since the week before the first lock down and I love going to the pub. At least in Thailand I can sit in an open air bar, the weather in the UK is too **** for that.

 

I will come to Thailand when I can but I don't think it will be before September, more likely December.

 

And as a lot of people are pointing out we can't go on holiday to quarantine for two weeks when we only get 4-5 weeks holiday per year. I am in the fortunate position of home-working but if the UK brings in hotel quarantining for 2 weeks that's 6 weeks for a 2 week holiday - as pointed out on numerous occasions it ain't gonna happen.

 

I was planning on finishing work at the end of the year to try teaching in SE Asia, (I just passed my TEFL course) but I might as well carry on working here until it all pans out because there is no point in making forward plans at this time. This has put my plans/ideas back by about 18 months but at least I am lucky to have a job and can make decisions when things are looking better. It will I'm sure, but as you say, nothing is going to be the same again... ever.

Edited January 26, 2021 by gazzzz
typo

[john davis]

TAT NEEDS A BIG CLEAR OUT AND GET SOMEONE WITH SOME EXPERIENCE ABOUT TOURISTS AND HOW MUCH IT MEANS TO THAI PEOPLE NOT ROCKET SCIENCE SHERLOCK

Edited January 26, 2021 by john davis

[spidermike007]

4 hours ago, john davis said:

TAT NEEDS A BIG CLEAR OUT AND GET SOMEONE WITH SOME EXPERIENCE ABOUT TOURISTS AND HOW MUCH IT MEANS TO THAI PEOPLE NOT ROCKET SCIENCE SHERLOCK

 

The nitwits in charge do not know what sacrifice means, nor do they even acknowledge the need for it. The TCOKU (Thailand is the center of the known universe) drivel continues. One would have hoped a catastrophic event like this would have allowed for some humility and an attitude adjustment on the part of Pipat, Anutin, Prayuth and the others. Has that happened? Not one iota it would appear.

 

Most rich tourists stopped visiting Thailand, for a dozen good reasons. They have too many other options. Quantity over quality. Mostly lower to middle income Chinese, Malaysians and Indians. This does not bode well for the future of the industry. And that was before the Zombie Apocalypse. Imagine after? It was good for two and three star hotels, cheap restaurants, cheap buffets, some of the trinket shops, Tesco, and 7/11. The quality was only declining. The numbers of high rollers that came here were very, very small. 

Thailand must rid itself of dinosaur leadership, who are moving the nation backwards. To call this class of people regressive, would be an understatement!