3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Why the word 'responsible' in your opinion-statement that To achieve herd immunity its important for all responsible adults to take the vaccines when offered or available.

And important for who?  Surely not for those that have serious second-thoughts about this so-called Vaccine-solution.

If your questioning who this is important to then sorry I can't help you.

 

If you are one of those who have serious thoughts about taking the vaccine and have no obvious medical conditions stopping you then you are going against the full weight of science as we know it. Yes I classify that as irresponsible.

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If your questioning who this is important to then sorry I can't help you.

 

If you are one of those who have serious thoughts about taking the vaccine and have no obvious medical conditions stopping you then you are going against the full weight of science as we know it. Yes I classify that as irresponsible.

You can be 'responsible' all you like, I make up my own mind using the full weight of science (but the part you don't seem to know) to not go along in this vaccine-solution madness.

Just now, Peter Denis said:

You can be 'responsible' all you like, I make up my own mind using the full weight of science (but the part you don't seem to know) to not go along in this vaccine-solution madness.

Cool, certainly not going to try and persuade you to change your mind.

12 hours ago, ezzra said:

Your argument doesn't hold water when it comes to possible mutations of the virus that are far more contagious and deadly than the current covid-19 one...

Your argument doesn’t hold water. How do you know that the vaccine will be effective against different strains of the virus. In which case people who had already had the vaccine would be more vulnerable than people waiting for the new improved vaccine.

30 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Why the word 'responsible' in your opinion-statement that To achieve herd immunity its important for all responsible adults to take the vaccines when offered or available.

And important for who?  Surely not for those that have serious second-thoughts about this so-called Vaccine-solution.

This is why society is damaged beyond repair, people who want to force their medical views on other people. Only the vulnerable need these vaccines and no one else.

A couple of conspiracy theory troll posts have been removed.

Yesterday on TV, Dr. Tony Fauci said that one of the more infectious variants of the COVID may also be more virulent.  Analysis is ongoing.  It was announced on CBS (or ABC) that some of the variants seem be infecting more in the 30-50 age group.

 

Meanwhile, my relatives back in the States are getting Shingles (Measles) vaccines because there is a resurgence of the disease in older individuals.  My sister has a friend who lost an eye to Shingles.

IMHO, it is better to be vaccinated against dangerous diseases for the benefit of the entire population.  

The Spanish Flu epidemic lasted for 1918 = 1920. It then 'disappeared' as mysteriously as it had first appeared.

 

Of course, it didn't disappear, but its genetic material was incorporated into other viral strains. The original virus was unable to spread as herd immunity took over and less dangerous forms were incorporated into the human population's 'genetic resistance'.

 

A virus that is spread by people to people contact, with a short incubation period and high fatality rate will be initially disastrous, but the epidemic is likely to be over in a relatively short period simply because those most susceptible will be dead and no longer able to pass on the virus. The rest of the population will willingly self-isolate to prevent the spread of the virus and it will eventually die off.

 

In contrast, a similar virus, but with a long incubation period and that is not fatal, is likely to find a happy home in the human population for a long period of time.

 

Both viruses will mutate. Some strains will increase fatalities and other strains will be less harmful. Inevitably, natural selection will favour those strains that are less harmful and these strains/genetic material will continue to persist. Eventually they will become incorporated into the immunological 'memory' of the human genome.

 

A vaccine is like getting a very mild version of the virus and contributes to this societal immunity. It accelerates the whole herd immunity response. Those who choose not to vaccinate, in a strict Darwinian sense, are holding back humanity. There are probably no consequences for them, or their children, but the risk of a resurgent strain decimating subsequent generations is very slightly increased. If enough people do not vaccinate, the increased risk may be significant.

With COVID, people don’t willingly self-isolate because they don’t realize that they’re sick until they’ve been infectious for several days.

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

But "my choice, my life" is a very selfish one & I trust you never want to travel internationally  in  the forseeable future. I hope you are not allowed anyway

The cost of treatment should you contract , I hope will be met by yourself or do you expect "the nanny state" to pay

You are assuming that if you contract it you are hospitalized. This is not the most likely outcome.

10 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

A vaccine is like getting a very mild version of the virus and contributes to this societal immunity. It accelerates the whole herd immunity response. Those who choose not to vaccinate, in a strict Darwinian sense, are holding back humanity. There are probably no consequences for them, or their children, but the risk of a resurgent strain decimating subsequent generations is very slightly increased. If enough people do not vaccinate, the increased risk may be significant.

"are holding back humanity" you should work for the government propaganda departments with this level of coercion. Plenty of countries are doing fine without any lockdowns and only giving vaccines to those who need them. Forcing or coercing vaccines onto people will not achieve what you are talking about, quite the opposite it will polarize opinion and divide society.

1 minute ago, tribalfusion001 said:

"are holding back humanity" you should work for the government propaganda departments with this level of coercion. Plenty of countries are doing fine without any lockdowns and only giving vaccines to those who need them. Forcing or coercing vaccines onto people will not achieve what you are talking about, quite the opposite it will polarize opinion and divide society.

Please name the countries "doing fine", also the level of infection per head of population and the mortality rate.

 

The number of ignorant people doesn't surprise me after the last two elections in the US.   It's same here.   Yes the world is doomed with so much ignorance

10 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

You don't seem to understand a large proportion do not want the vaccines and will refuse them. Your point of view and your fear of this virus is what's driving this agenda. I live my life and I don't want a covid vaccine. You are advocating medical fascism by saying remain part of society, who are you to decide who is remain part of society for a mild virus, yes mild, 98% of those who die have underlying conditions.

If you don’t want the vaccine then fine. You should also me made to sign a document saying that you do not want any medical treatment if you catch Covid. You made that choice.

1 hour ago, Pro1Expat said:

If what you say is true and I have no idea if it is or not, this must be the first virus to ever mutate into something far more dangerous. Which other virus do you know of that has mutated into a more dangerous strain? I have never heard of any virus doing it.

The common cold mutates virtually all of the time which is why there is no vaccine for it. As the Covid virus comprises, among others, the cold virus which is a Corona virus, how is a vaccine ever going to be effective?

If anyone can explain this I would be very interested to hear it

Ever heard of Spanish flu?

 

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

You can be 'responsible' all you like, I make up my own mind using the full weight of science (but the part you don't seem to know) to not go along in this vaccine-solution madness.

Please can you tell us where you studied medicine and where you specialized in infectious diseases. I would be interested to know.

8 minutes ago, Elkski said:

The number of ignorant people doesn't surprise me after the last two elections in the US.   It's same here.   Yes the world is doomed with so much ignorance

I agree with you.  But when talking about covid-19 measures and vaccination, it's likely that we are actually referring to different 'ignorant' groups. 

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I agree with you.  But when talking about covid-19 measures and vaccination, it's likely that we are actually referring to different 'ignorant' groups. 

I think he is talking about the same ignorant groups. Some people don’t realise that they are in one of the groups.

16 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

Ever heard of Spanish flu?

 

Yes and the Covid is not that

Just now, Pro1Expat said:

Yes and the Covid is not that

But it is a virus that mutated into a more deadly form. You said that you had never heard of a virus doing that.

17 hours ago, gafdtomaka366 said:

Given that around 90% recover with no problem at all, and given that the number would be even higher if every sick person  was discovered, why vaccianate everybody instead of 10%, at most 20%, in the risk group?

The premise is based on an incorrect assumption, that healthy young people are not at risk. They are.

The risk for them is debilitating symptoms lasting for months.

90% do not recover with any problem at all. The data from Australia is saying 40% of the people who contract coronavirus are experiencing breathing problems well down the track.

One thing I am looking forward to is when Thailand will make it mandatory to have a Covid vaccine to get their new visa. It will fun to see all these people who say they will never get the vaccine standing sheepishly in line.

The fewer the number of people vaccinated, the greater the opportunity the virus has to mutate.  

11 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your life, Your choice, as you wrote - but that surely must come with conditions if you wish to remain part of society.

 

I am not an anti-vaxer, I have my annual flu shots, last year I also got my first pneumonia shot, due again this year for the flu shot + booster for pneumonia, although I will go for the Covid vax instead of the flu shot, only makes sense to, these are my choices and of course don't affect society.

 

I understand what you are saying, however you cannot place conditions on people because they don't wish to be vaccinated, in Australia the government stops payments to parents if they don't vaccinate their kids, and pay those that do, that in itself is wrong in my opinion.

 

We all have a right to live in society, there are those of us that will vaccinate, not because we wish to protect others, but because we want to protect ourselves first, call that selfish, but its the honest truth, however it is up to those who don't vaccinate that take the risk, remembering that those of us that do get vaccinated with Covid-19 offer no protection to those who do not vaccinated, or anyone else for that matter.

 

The above said, if Covid-19 was a virus that killed everyone who didn't want to vaccinate, then that in itself would sort things out, this vaccination will only protect those who have been vaccinated, not 100%, up to 95%, 90% even as low as 52% depending on which vaccination you take.

 

We have no control on hospitals being over run by those who choose not to be vaccinated, although I suppose hospital staff can decide who is to be treated first, i.e. the heart attack victim, the stroke victim, the car accident victim or the Covid victim, what I am saying, is it shouldn't be too hard if you follow what I mean, sort of like an alcoholic always ending up in the hospital, being put into an educed coma in the ICU ward only to return time and time again, eventually they will prescribe him with a couple of pills and tell him to sleep it off, (self inflicted), harsh, but it is the reality, they need the ICU ward for people who do not self inflict themselves with whatever.

 

So those that don't get vaccinated still have a choice, as for me, well, if and when I get vaccinated, hopefully I won't have that problem, and if I do end up catching it, at least I can say, hey guys I did get vaxed, no doubt they would allow me in for treatment as opposed to sending me home with some pills.

 

Got to be cruel to be kind as they say.

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

in Australia the government stops payments to parents if they don't vaccinate their kids, and pay those that do, that in itself is wrong in my opinion.

 

Reason being non vaccinated children can be carriers and infect others in the community at great financial cost to government and those infected.

 

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

those of us that do get vaccinated with Covid-19 offer no protection to those who do not vaccinated,

 

Incorrect, those vaccinated provide mitigation from Covid infection for the non vaccinated

17 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

One thing I am looking forward to is when Thailand will make it mandatory to have a Covid vaccine to get their new visa. It will fun to see all these people who say they will never get the vaccine standing sheepishly in line.

Luckily there are also more tolerant people in this world, and I am sure that - irrespective their opinion on vaccines - those tolerant ones feel sad for you when reading such a spiteful post. 

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Reason being non vaccinated children can be carriers and infect others in the community at great financial cost to government and those infected.

 

 

Incorrect, those vaccinated provide mitigation from Covid infection for the non vaccinated

Ok, agree on your first point, kids should be vaccinated then, especially if they can be carriers and spread it to other kids.

 

The second point depends what you read: People who have received a Covid-19 vaccine could still pass the virus on to others and should continue following lockdown rules, England's deputy chief medical officer has warned.1 day ago

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

+ 1 for the post above [ukrules]

 

Vaccinate the elderly and those in high risk groups first (which they are doing).

i.e. 80+ high risk, then 70+ then 60+ etc

 

In addition to what ukrules has written... 

 

Even though statistically a person is younger than 60 is at less risk of serious symptoms related to Covid-19 there is still a risk. There has been talk of additional risk of thrombosis etc.. and no one wants a horrible flu that knocks them on their backside for a week or more, the same for Covid-19. If the vaccine means we only suffer mild (or no) symptoms vs being stuck in bed for 5 days etc then we should all take it. 

 

I want to see everyone vaccinated as soon as possible so I can get back to travel without quarantine.

 

I want to see the world get back to as close to normal as soon possible. 

 

Even though people suggest that we can make our own minds up and take the risk if we want to be vaccinated or expose ourselves to Covid-19, some suggest its their choice. But, what they are failing to recognise in their selfishness is that if they become sick and need hospitalisation they are using up vital resources needed for others. 

 

 

 

Only western countries immunize old, frail ones first. Asian countries with healthcare workers. This is how it shld be. Many doctors/nurses fell/fall ill, have died. 90 year olds don't care for sick ppl. Med. staff does. They should have priority.

13 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

My choice, my life

Or death, be it yourself or someone you go near to. Selfish.

3 hours ago, Pro1Expat said:

a vaccine will not reduce infections. It will, assuming it does the job it is supposed to do, reduce the effect of the infection.

Not true!! 

From the US CDC official website updated Jan5 2021 I have underlined the pertinent section.:

"All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. . "

Further more it goes on to say :

" Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html