Ngor Ngoo

[DavidUK21]

please can anyone explain how to say words that begin with 'ngor ngoo' like 'ngoo' (snake) for example. i can hear audio clips of it but cant seem to say it myself. not sure where my tongue should be etc. dont know if anyone can explain it in words, but thanks if you can. cheers

[Richard W]

Beyond saying that /ng/ is to /g/ as /n/ is to /d/, there's not a lot to say. Tongue position is as for hard /g/, /k/ etc. In theory, you ought to be able to say it be dropping the /ha/ off <hanger>, if you don't rhyme it with <anger>, but for most English speakers the syllable division gets in the way. (There are some who syllabify ha-nger, not hang-er, but not many.)

Do Welshmen manage any better than Englishmen? They ought to with expressions like yng Ngaernarfon 'in Carnarvon' and names like Angharad, but I'm by no means sure that they do manage the sound any better.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

The old AUA tapes/books had some excellent advice on how to pronounce words that start with "ng". First off is to realize that we actually do start sylabbles this way in English, we just don't realize it.

Say: "comming on". Say it fast a few times. Notice how you say something like:

"cummy ngon"

Now keep saying it but drop the c:

omming on, omming on

Now drop the o:

ming on, ming on

now drop the m:

ing on, ing on

Now dropp the i:

ng on, ng on

And you've got it. This works - I may have not explained it perfectly, but if you keep trying and think about it, - you'll get it. I did, and several other people I've explained it to. It's not a hard sound to make .

[bina]

the real test will be when u can say :

the snake ate the mouse

and not:

the mouse ate the snake

or any other variation on that line...

still get puzzled looks when i try to say that today the snake did indeed eat three mice; and then i show the guys 'snake' movement, then hand movements like a snake striking, then vocalize the mouse squeaking... a good laugh

[Richard W]

The old AUA tapes/books had some excellent advice on how to pronounce words that start with "ng". First off is to realize that we actually do start sylabbles this way in English, we just don't realize it.

Say: "comming on". Say it fast a few times. Notice how you say something like:

"cummy ngon"

Now keep saying it but drop the c:

omming on, omming on

Now drop the o:

ming on, ming on

now drop the m:

ing on, ing on

Now dropp the i:

ng on, ng on

And you've got it. This works - I may have not explained it perfectly, but if you keep trying and think about it, - you'll get it. I did, and several other people I've explained it to. It's not a hard sound to make .

Who do you mean by 'we'? Most English speakers (farangs, anyway) don't. As another example, Birmingham is syllabified Bir-ming-am or even Bir-ming-gam. For an encore, are you going to claim that ไ_ด actually occurs as a syllable structure in Thai? There are similar problems, but I feel the English combination is easier for Thais than the Thai sound for Englishmen.

For the reduction of 'coming on', it helps if you stress 'on' at the beginning. It's rather like 'bestseller' for Esperanto initial sc-, though not as bad as 'hung halibut' for Welsh ngh-.

Isn't there a tongue position problem if the sequence works? It seems to yield a pre-velar nasal, possibly even platal, and Thais seem to hear it as /n/ rather than /ng/.

[Boon Mee]

And, there's a lot of "nose action" I guess I'd call it prouncing ng words. The sound has to get get up the nose to be close to accurate. Just takes a little practice...

[RamdomChances]

Do Welshmen manage any better than Englishmen? They ought to with expressions like yng Ngaernarfon 'in Carnarvon' and names like Angharad, but I'm by no means sure that they do manage the sound any better.

No I'm cr#p at saying it as well, think you just have to practice, and listen, then practice some more, I speak thai every day and have done for about 3 years, apart from my wife no one speaks english here.

My speaking is fair but reading and writing still are'nt up to much though!!

[DavidUK21]

Thanks a lot, I think I'm getting somewhere near now.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

The old AUA tapes/books had some excellent advice on how to pronounce words that start with "ng". First off is to realize that we actually do start sylabbles this way in English, we just don't realize it.

Say: "comming on". Say it fast a few times. Notice how you say something like:

"cummy ngon"

Now keep saying it but drop the c:

omming on, omming on

Now drop the o:

ming on, ming on

now drop the m:

ing on, ing on

Now dropp the i:

ng on, ng on

And you've got it. This works - I may have not explained it perfectly, but if you keep trying and think about it, - you'll get it. I did, and several other people I've explained it to. It's not a hard sound to make .

I've always said that phrasebooks are a waste of time because they are never spelled as acuratly as they are said. Khrap is often spelt 'khrup" which would result in a first timer saying "Kop Khun Krup" and cigarette would be spelt 'buree' but I've always known Thai's to pronunce it "Bulee" - I can't think of any better examples at the moment but the best way to speak any lingo well is to be in the country.

As for the post above - I think that's an excellent way of getting it right and manufacturers of phrase books should use this method but they wouldn't because it's not formal enough.

Still, it worked for me, got a few strange looks in the internet cafe mind you.

[kenk3z]

I was told to say "sawadee cup" in the normal English pronounciation of "cup".

It's close but not quite right, is it?

I still feel that I'm not saying the right thing when almost everyone else says "sawadee ka". I'm told its a male/female thing and yet little boys say "sawadee ka" ?? I've had motorcyle taxi drivers shout out "sawadee ka" to me and I don't understand if they're making an insult or not.

And so I struggle with the very basics.............

kenk3z

[meadish_sweetball]

I was told to say "sawadee cup" in the normal English pronounciation of "cup".

It's close but not quite right, is it?

I still feel that I'm not saying the right thing when almost everyone else says "sawadee ka". I'm told its a male/female thing and yet little boys say "sawadee ka" ?? I've had motorcyle taxi drivers shout out "sawadee ka" to me and I don't understand if they're making an insult or not.

And so I struggle with the very basics.............

kenk3z

Your confusion probably comes from the fact that final stop sounds "p, t, k" (or "b, d, g" for that matter, as they are the same) are not released in Thai.

Thus, when you say "cup" in English, there is in obvious outburst of air after the "p". To get the pronounciation of "khrap" right, your lips should close like an oyster on the "p" sound, not releasing any air, to achieve the proper Thai effect.

If you want to sound learned and super-proper, you should pronounce the "r" as well, which should be trilled (somewhat like a Scottish "r" (not an Irish "r"). Most Thai people don't, though.

The exaggerated "p" pronunciation at the end of "khrap" does not risk confusion of the word, but is a clear accent marker.

I hope that makes sense.

The female variation "kha" has a different tone, falling, whereas the male "khrap", which is often pronounced as "kha(" or even just "ha?" in everyday casual speech, is pronounced with a high tone (meaning as high as your normal, non-strained voice goes, not as high as you can actually achieve).

In the same way "sawadee" can be divided into "sawad - dee", where the first "d" stops before releasing any air, in the same way as the "p" in "khrap".

The "wad" in "sawad" should be of distinctly lower pitch than the "dee" sound

[kenk3z]

Very helpful - Thanks!

kenk3z

[loong]

I've always said that phrasebooks are a waste of time because they are never spelled as acuratly as they are said. Khrap is often spelt 'khrup" which would result in a first timer saying "Kop Khun Krup" and cigarette would be spelt 'buree' but I've always known Thai's to pronunce it "Bulee"

Khrup or Krub or Krahp is indeed closer to the proper pronunciation than Khrap

Buree is correct. But often Thai's replace 'R' with 'L'.

[Tywais]

The way I learned to pronounce it and worked very well for me was:

Say "ring" a few times in a row," ring ring ring" then add "oo" to it, "ringoo ringoo ringoo" then start dropping the "ri" after a while you will feel the ngoo cause it sort of resonates.

[Tarragona]

Your confusion probably comes from the fact that final stop sounds "p, t, k" (or "b, d, g" for that matter, as they are the same) are not released in Thai.

Thus, when you say "cup" in English, there is in obvious outburst of air after the "p". To get the pronounciation of "khrap" right, your lips should close like an oyster on the "p" sound, not releasing any air, to achieve the proper Thai effect.

Actually in regular speech, it would be unusual to release the "p" of cup.

Edited August 1, 2005 by Tarragona

[loong]

The back of the tongue should block the nasal passage, a little further back than with 'G'. The start of the sound will come out through the nose.

Say 'Noo' normally and then say it again with your tongue in this position, you should find you can say 'ngoo'

Practice and it will come easily.