Dealing with Extortion

[rumak]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Surely a joke.

 

well,  proficient as i used it can be translated as "competent".     for the last 20 years i have had to

do all my dealings with land offices,  tessabahns,  electric and water offices......... by myself.

My experience has shown me that often I have to talk with the man /woman  in charge to explain or discuss something ( which a  subordinate has given me hassles with ).  

Oddly enough the superiors have most often been helpful and pleasant to deal with ...... 

it is much easier to be polite and get what one wants when you can discuss it in their language.

 

so,   this time.......... no joke

[Brick Top]

I have lived in Phuket 20 years now and I have probably had around 10 of these residence certificates for car or motorcycle purchases or driving licenses. They have always been free , only once some immagration officer asked me for 300 , as soon as I said I would need a receipt he said ok free .

They are absolutely without doubt meant to be free , I have even seen the Phuket immigration office post an article announcing there free.

[allanos]

Corruption, or the degree of it, seems to be largely in the eye of the beholder.

 

It seems clear that many of the proudly long-term (Western) expats, certainly those who have commented on this forum, are not really immersed in Thai culture, or way of life, and are leading insular existences in the country.  Meantime, they are trying, unsuccessfully it would seem, to keep a foot in both camps.

 

With apologies to Rudyard Kipling for butchering his words, "east is east, and west is west, and never the twain shall meet . . .

[natway09]

If you want to be happy & just live stress free do not get your knickers in a knot over it.

It is endemic & you are not going to change it

We have had a business for 17 years that would not even be operating if the brown envelope 

was not forthcoming every month.

Being a do gooder will not get you anywhere, at least not here

[spidermike007]

It is corruption. And it is endemic. Prayuth has had a mandate from the beginning to do the very opposite. To protect the elite, the super wealthy who are guilty, those that are connected, and those who are in power. Just think Dark Tao. Just think Red Bull. The list goes on, and on, and on. Only the most naive amongst us believe he or ACT secretary-general Mana Nimitmongkol are sincere about fighting corruption or crime. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They police and army are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the most naive amongst us. 

 

And the Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand (ACT) is one of the most feeble and ineffective of all the tools Prayuth has used to deceive the people into believing that he is fighting corruption. Who was the last high level authority, in the police, immigration, the army, or the active administration they arrested, charged, tried convicted, and sent to prison? Nobody. Zero. Nunca. Nada.

[chilly07]

This is the way Thai Society operates. You pay for a service. It becomes part of the service providers remuneration and they share it with their superiors and so on up the chain. If they operate independently they get moved to an inoperative post and loose the income. If it's serial independance they get prosecuted. Those at the very top get very rich. No different to western capitalism where political  and economic control generate wealth. In both East and West the top 1pc control 90pc  of their countries wealth aided and abetted by off shore tax havens and wholescale money laundering. Both systems require extensive beauracracies designed to disguise wealth transfer. Tech Industries streamline wealth transfer. Maintainance of the status quo is essential in ensuring continuation of wealth transfer. Politics Coups and Wars are all tools of the wealth transfer system.

[4MyEgo]

On 2/27/2021 at 4:47 PM, Neeranam said:

So it is extortion.

 

Yes, welcome to the LOS

 

On 2/27/2021 at 4:47 PM, Neeranam said:

Are you sure they don't have to give it if requested for a valid reason, eg. getting a driver's license? 

 

I recall many years ago I paid 500 baht, the valid reason was for driver's license, and was told we don't give them out, but if you pay 500 baht, we will give one to you, so I took that as an "up to you" thing, in other words, you want your drivers license, pay me 500 baht and you get the paper, paid, got my paper and later my drivers license.

 

Thing to remember here is there are no principals, i.e. unless you want to cut your nose off to spite you, in other words, it's part of the culture, corrupt all the way to the top, so pay up, and go get your drivers license, or don't, "up to you".....SORRY

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

This is the way Thai Society operates. You pay for a service. It becomes part of the service providers remuneration and they share it with their superiors and so on up the chain. If they operate independently they get moved to an inoperative post and loose the income. If it's serial independance they get prosecuted. Those at the very top get very rich. No different to western capitalism where political  and economic control generate wealth. In both East and West the top 1pc control 90pc  of their countries wealth aided and abetted by off shore tax havens and wholescale money laundering. Both systems require extensive beauracracies designed to disguise wealth transfer. Tech Industries streamline wealth transfer. Maintainance of the status quo is essential in ensuring continuation of wealth transfer. Politics Coups and Wars are all tools of the wealth transfer system.

 

OK !   you are now a member of  Rumak's  lonely TBT  club .   ( Truth Be Told ) .

No matter how many times i give an answer such as yours........ it fails to gain new members.

But you do receive today's gold star .

[mr mr]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:12 PM, rumak said:

Boy i sure wish all you guys getting upset about the way things work here ( usually paying 10 baht more for a songteow once in a while,  or getting hit up for 500 baht ( $12 ) for this "service"  ...

which as Crossy points out you CAN get from your Embassy at a MUCH HIGHER cost ....

 

Would get a life !    Western world is more corrupt than any of you seem to have a clue .   The ordinary man has taxes taken out of their salary... the very rich and many corporations pay none !

 

Workers here get from 300 to 500 baht a day for many things.   Then we get all the complaints 

on how the work was below standard .    OMG    Anyone lucky enough to be born in an entitled country where bus drivers make 50 k  dollars a year ,  plumbers 50 dollars an hour,  and your congressman get huge lifetime pensions and SPECIAL healthcare .....  how can you compare ??

 

Talk about wanting your cake and eat it too  ie   you are living in a much freer and less PC country .

for a fraction of the cost and stress of living where I came from ..   I just don't get it .

 

I do get why so many guys posting and complaining are called grumpy old men though .

Please,  go back to      oh,   forgot  ....    i'm not supposed to say that.

Have a nice day,   y'all

 

 

thai corruption - official holds hand out for a few hundred baht

back home - officials have their hand in my pocket 24/7 as i  walk through life

[hotchilli]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:11 PM, Neeranam said:

My questions - 

1- Is this corruption by charging for a free service?

2- if it is, who should these complaints be made with?

 

IF you have been extorted, having to pay bribes, how did you deal with it? 

Offer to pay by cheque?

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

7 hours ago, colinneil said:

Get yourself sorted with a yellow book, sorted, no need for resident certs anymore, easy.

That may be true in some locations, but I have found that at e.g. LTD for driving licence in Pattaya a yellow book just doesn't cut it. At least when I did it last time, a few years ago that is now. So I still need to go to the IO. I have found little use of the yellow book and pink ID card, except Jomtien IO accepts the yellow book as proof of address.

 

EDIT: I just saw this has been said already, but I also will say that the pink card did NOT work for access to Kao Yai national park, neither did a Thai driving licence. So I guess it is like with most things: Flexible rules.

Edited February 28, 2021 by MeaMaximaCulpa
Update

[rimmae2]

Does one want to make life easy or difficult? The easy path has advantages, but some people seem to consider that what it may require is 'wrong' but at the same time they may give a tip to other service providers without even thinking about it. 

[Bangkok Barry]

If there is no receipt and the money goes into their pocket then it is corruption and the fact they might 'be doing you a favour' is irrelevant. It is corruption and a criminal offence. End of.

 

Any point in complaining, as the OP asked? Absolutely not. Especially over such a trivial amount. It's the way that any banana republic operates. Watch as 'regional' people have to hand over 20 or 50 baht to Lao immigration before being allowed entry is another example. In Bali the going rate was $20 slipped into the passport, last time I was there.

 

[Knocker33]

Give them a break .They are really struggling for their tea money at the moment 

[rumak]

1 hour ago, mr mr said:

 

thai corruption - official holds hand out for a few hundred baht

back home - officials have their hand in my pocket 24/7 as i  walk through life

 

Bingo !!!    actually back home they have BOTH their hands in your pocket ........ because they

sure aren't going into their own pockets.    No room anyway (their pockets are filled with special interest groups, lawyers,  tax specialists,  and of course publicists who write beautiful stories about

freeeeeedom. ) 

[TaoNow]

Let me re-phrase my question:  Why is it assumed that your local immigration office can verify your address?  And, hence, the 'fee' charged.

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

Let me re-phrase my question:  Why is it assumed that your local immigration office can verify your address?  And, hence, the 'fee' charged.

Because it's their job to keep track of where foreigners stay, either through the various forms where a foreigner has to report himself, or through report by the foreigner's landlord.

[kennw]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:20 PM, Crossy said:

Was there a receipt?

 

Yes - all above board

No - possibly not all above board.

 

Just be happy you don't have to get said certificate from the British Embassy, cost is somewhat bigger than 1k Baht.

Stick to the point that was being made, the British embassy cost is irrevelent. 

[ubonjoe]

This topic about something that has been discussed dozens of times before has now run its course and now joins those that have been closed before.

Topic now