Northern Irish loyalist paramilitaries withdraw support for 1998 peace deal

[billd766]

35 minutes ago, Sujo said:

which should be up to the scots to decide.

But this time include ALL of the Scottish people world wide and don't include anyone who is under the legal voting age.

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

They are and will always be a problem according to MI5 and always will be until there's a United Eire

You think a united Ireland will be the end of the troubles.......?

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

You think a united Ireland will be the end of the troubles.......?

Well it would be the end of Britain’s part in any troubles.

[bermondburi]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well it would be the end of Britain’s part in any troubles.

That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it, that would ignore the fact that many of the residents of the 6 counties would be British. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, bermondburi said:

That's a rather simplistic way of looking at it, that would ignore the fact that many of the residents of the 6 counties would be British. 

Under the assumption of a United Ireland they would have recourse to the British Embassy in Dublin should the need arise.

[Kwasaki]

47 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

You think a united Ireland will be the end of the troubles.......?

After exterminators have done there work of course.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

After exterminators have done there work of course.

There will only be Arlene left and a species of small mammals

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

There will only be Arlene left and a species of small mammals

Who knows, I just think it's another very very sad situation all over the bloody cause of everything in Ireland religion. 

All I know is my grandfather left Ireland for American then came back to England didn't want to go back Ireland.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

religion

How often is that at the heart of many, many conflicts!!!!!

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How often is that at the heart of many, many conflicts!!!!!

Ever since the ancient Myans if I think back correctly. 

I like to think the StarTrek solution will happen one day,  then there's only that big square thing to be concerned about.  ????

[7by7]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:57 AM, placnx said:

In order to protect the Good Friday Agreement, the EU could have made a concession by having a customs check between Ireland the island and mainland EU.

 

You're suggesting that the EU kick the RoI out of the customs union because of Brexit!

 

You appear to not know that what is now the RoI gained it's independence from the UK in 1922!

[7by7]

21 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The UK won. You just haven't worked it out yet.

 

You've had plenty of hints though. The vaccine rollout being the most obvious.

 

Yet again a Brexiteer brings the Covid vaccine into an unrelated topic! 

 

The only reasoning possible being "I can't think of anything positive to say about Brexit, so I'll bring up the vaccine."

 

Despite the fact that, as has been proven whenever a desperate Brexiteer has brought it up in other threads, the UK's unilateral approval of the Pfizer/BioNTech happened while we were still subject to all EU rules and regulations and was allowed under those rules and regulations.

 

If you don't believe me, will you take the word of MHRA chief executive Dr. June Raine in this UK government press release?

Quote

On 1 December we received a letter from the Department of Health and Social Care asking us to authorise the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine under Regulation 174, an EU provision introduced in national law that allows for the authorisation of a medicine in response to a public health need.

This means that, instead of having to go through the centralised licensing route of the European Medicines Agency (as most vaccines do until the end of the transition period), we were able to authorise the supply of the vaccine based on public health need

 

[Salerno]

17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Being a European I have never understood the meaning of "paramilitary group". Surely we could just call them armed hooligans?

 

"armed hooligans" = Wisla Krakow/Ultras Sparta Praha/River Plate/Milwall/AS Roma/whatever flavour football "supporters" armed with knives and barstools

"paramilitary" = military grade weapons and explosives.

 

Pretty dumb comparison IMO.

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It facilitated and provided an easy passage for us leaving the disastrous EU vaccination scheme.

 

Of course it was technically possible that we could remain in the EU and be the only one of 28 member states to opt out, but back in the real world it never would have happened and you Remainer Europhiles know it. There would have been way too much opposition and pressure applied from within the EU and from the Europhile MPs like Catherine West who was later forced to apologise for trying to force us into the scheme.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-mp-apologizes-for-jibe-at-uks-opt-out-of-eu-vaccine-scheme/

 

Thank God we opted out from that hub of incompetence.

 

 

Pure speculation.

 

Whilst still a member the UK opted out of

• the Schengen area,
• the economic and monetary union,
• the area of freedom, security and justice,
• the charter of fundamental rights and
• the social chapter (although Blair later reversed this one).

There is zero evidence to suggest that had Brexit never happened we would not have used the EU regulations to unilaterally approve the Pfizer vaccine.

 

[elliss]

On 3/4/2021 at 4:52 PM, fangless said:

*Deleted post edited out*

 

There are no good terrorists unless they are dead!

I do not subscribe to "One side's freedom fighter is the other side's terrorist!" or vici versa!

 

One mans terrorist .

  Is another Mans , freedom fighter .

Burn your uniform ...

[fangless]

7 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

One mans terrorist .

  Is another Mans , freedom fighter .

Burn your uniform ...

Which uniform are you referring to?

Do you have one that you (can?) wear in public, or is it just on your sleeve.?

Edited March 6, 2021 by fangless

[7by7]

In fact, there is nothing in the Belfast Agreement which prohibits customs controls and  customs posts on the land border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. (Source)

 

However, Johnsons self praised Withdrawal Agreement sold out the Unionist population of Northern Ireland by replacing May's previously agreed with the EU backstop with his, previously rejected by May as something no British PM could ever agree to, protocol. This meant no customs border between North and South, instead one between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Effectively splitting the UK into two. 

 

Why did he do this? I can only surmise that as the rest of his WA is virtually identical to May's, which he vigorously opposed, he had to change something and he and his advisors (Cummings?) could think of nothing else.

 

Unless, despite being leader of the Conservative and Unionist party, he is actually a closet Irish nationalist!

 

[elliss]

28 minutes ago, fangless said:

Which uniform are you referring to?

Do you have one that you (can?) wear in public, or is it just on your sleeve.?

 

 Fyi ,  i was in Derry in the seventies ..

[bannork]

55 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

"armed hooligans" = Wisla Krakow/Ultras Sparta Praha/River Plate/Milwall/AS Roma/whatever flavour football "supporters" armed with knives and barstools

"paramilitary" = military grade weapons and explosives.

 

Pretty dumb comparison IMO.

No, not dumb. I think Old Hippy is saying the term paramilitary flatters the members. It sounds disciplined, organised, a political force representing a movement, a group in society. But the members are in fact simply thugs with scarcely a braincell between them.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

It sounds disciplined, organised, a political force representing a movement, a group in society. But the members are in fact simply thugs with scarcely a braincell between them.

 

That would be severely underestimating the vast majority of officially recognised paramilitary organisations.

[fangless]

1 hour ago, fangless said:

Burn your uniform ...

Why tell me to "burn your uniform" when you have no idea what uniform, if any,  I may, or may not  have worn at any time in either the past or present?

 

56 minutes ago, elliss said:

Fyi ,  i was in Derry in the seventies ..

What uniform, if any, did you ever wear in public in Derry in the seventies?

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

 Fyi ,  i was in Derry in the seventies ..

Tough times.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, fangless said:

Why tell me to "burn your uniform" when you have no idea what uniform, if any,  I may, or may not  have worn at any time in either the past or present?

 

What uniform, if any, did you ever wear in public in Derry in the seventies?

What does that matter now.

[bannork]

Possible EU responses to the government's NI moves

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-explainer-idUSKBN2AX1EC

[Rookiescot]

14 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

That would be severely underestimating the vast majority of officially recognised paramilitary organisations.

 

The vast majority of paramilitary forces around the world, no matter what "cause" they are fighting for are primarily concerned about one thing. Money.

Despite their lofty goals its money that decides the actions they take.

I was told by someone who should know that the opposing armed gangs in Northern Ireland would occasionally meet in order to decide who controlled what and where.

Nothing I have ever seen or heard of has ever convinced me the guy was not correct.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

The vast majority of paramilitary forces around the world, no matter what "cause" they are fighting for are primarily concerned about one thing. Money.

Despite their lofty goals its money that decides the actions they take.

I was told by someone who should know that the opposing armed gangs in Northern Ireland would occasionally meet in order to decide who controlled what and where.

Nothing I have ever seen or heard of has ever convinced me the guy was not correct.

Just like religion and communism......paramilitary organizations could work quite well without the involvement of human beings.......all three, however, are rapidly hijacked for power and money destroying their real (potential) worth. 

 

There is little doubt that drugs, blackmail and extortion were lucrative trades for the NI paramilitaries.....I guess they might argue in the absence of government funding it was all necessary....555.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

After exterminators have done there work of course.

You’ve been reading up on Cromwell I see. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:23 AM, JonnyF said:

Of course it was technically possible that we could remain in the EU and be the only one of 28 member states to opt out, but back in the real world it never would have happened and you Remainer Europhiles know it.

That claim is quite obviously innacurate, given that at the latest count, 5 EU countries have "opted out" and made their own, separate vaccine supply arrangements. As the BBC  article below states, these are Germany, Hungary, Slovakia, Austria and Denmark. The Czech Republic is said to be considering doing the same.

 

What's the problem with the EU vaccine rollout?

[placnx]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:25 PM, 7by7 said:

 

You're suggesting that the EU kick the RoI out of the customs union because of Brexit!

 

You appear to not know that what is now the RoI gained it's independence from the UK in 1922!

It's not a matter of separating Ireland from the Single Market. The idea is to use technology and preclearance to handle customs for the vast majority of goods. This would especially concern goods going back and forth multiple times in stages of production between Northern Ireland and the Republic. There was a lot of concern that a customs border would be counterproductive in this situation.

 

On 3/6/2021 at 8:42 PM, 7by7 said:

In fact, there is nothing in the Belfast Agreement which prohibits customs controls and  customs posts on the land border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. (Source)

 

However, Johnsons self praised Withdrawal Agreement sold out the Unionist population of Northern Ireland by replacing May's previously agreed with the EU backstop with his, previously rejected by May as something no British PM could ever agree to, protocol. This meant no customs border between North and South, instead one between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Effectively splitting the UK into two. 

 

Why did he do this? I can only surmise that as the rest of his WA is virtually identical to May's, which he vigorously opposed, he had to change something and he and his advisors (Cummings?) could think of nothing else.

 

Unless, despite being leader of the Conservative and Unionist party, he is actually a closet Irish nationalist!

 

The impression I got of the Backstop was that it was just pushing the can down the road. In order for Boris to have had a solid agreement there would had to be the technical solutions already worked out between Ireland and UK, but then there is the problem of Brussels.... It is not irrelevant to give the example of how vaccines have been handled by Brussels to understand the difficulties that Ireland and UK face in having any solution go through the Brussels gauntlet.

 

I'd like to know how it works if you're not Irish or Brit and you arrive in Ireland by air and want to visit Belfast and UK as well. Would there be different immigration channels available?

[7by7]

On 3/8/2021 at 8:00 AM, placnx said:

It's not a matter of separating Ireland from the Single Market.

You said

On 3/5/2021 at 10:57 AM, placnx said:

In order to protect the Good Friday Agreement, the EU could have made a concession by having a customs check between Ireland the island and mainland EU.

Having customs checks between the RoI and the rest of the EU is, as I said,  separating the RoI from the customs union.

This would not necessarily remove the RoI from the single market. For example, EEA states do have access to it; but they have to pay for that access by contributing to the EU budget.

On 3/8/2021 at 8:00 AM, placnx said:

The idea is to use technology and preclearance to handle customs for the vast majority of goods. This would especially concern goods going back and forth multiple times in stages of production between Northern Ireland and the Republic. There was a lot of concern that a customs border would be counterproductive in this situation.

As has been seen, the customs border Boris put in the Irish Sea between Northern Ireland and Great Britain has been even more counterproductive!

As has that between the Great Britain and the EU mainland. Another Brexit disaster.

On 3/8/2021 at 8:00 AM, placnx said:

The impression I got of the Backstop was that it was just pushing the can down the road.  In order for Boris to have had a solid agreement there would had to be the technical solutions already worked out between Ireland and UK,

As said before, there is nothing in the Belfast Agreement to prevent a customs border between North and South. Physical customs posts would probably have caused problems, though, and May's backstop was designed to keep the border open while the technical solutions were worked out.

Boris had to justify his coup by changing something in May's proposed withdrawal agreement, and he chose to sell out the Loyalist population of Northern Ireland by separating Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK with his protocol.

On 3/8/2021 at 8:00 AM, placnx said:

but then there is the problem of Brussels.... It is not irrelevant to give the example of how vaccines have been handled by Brussels to understand the difficulties that Ireland and UK face in having any solution go through the Brussels gauntlet.

The vaccine roll out is totally irrelevant here. 

On 3/8/2021 at 8:00 AM, placnx said:

I'd like to know how it works if you're not Irish or Brit and you arrive in Ireland by air and want to visit Belfast and UK as well. Would there be different immigration channels available?

I have no first hand knowledge of entering either the RoI nor Northern Ireland by air, so do not know if there are separate immigration channels such as those at BKK and LHR.

Under the CTA, there has been total freedom of movement for British and Irish citizens between the UK and RoI since 1925 (except when it was suspended during the war).

EU, EEA and Swiss nationals can enter the RoI via the FoM directive; but since the end of the transition period they cannot enter the UK this way.

Those not covered by the CTA or FoM require the appropriate visa to enter either country; although UK visit visa holders can use that visa to enter the RoI provided they do so via the UK and the visa is still valid.

A non British or RoI citizen entering either country without the appropriate visa would be here illegally; though there are no routine checks when crossing from one to the other by land.