Ivermectin

[cclub75]

10 hours ago, gilkovitch said:

the original question was "Does anyone know if Ivermectin is available to buy from pharmacies in Thailand?"

 

where i can buy in Thailand ?

 

Big pharmacies around Victory Monument (BKK). They have the local brand, "Vermectin 6 mg" from Atlantic Labs.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

 

[WashingUpagain]

Some interesting debate. If cases rise in CM, I'll start taking it as a precaution. I guess it's the same debate as to wether vitamins work or not...they're cheap, so if ineffective ...no harm done.

[xylophone]

On 5/19/2021 at 9:15 PM, CALSinCM said:

Seeing that hydroxycloriquine is almost impossible to find, Ivermectin is now in our family medicine cabinet for a rainy day. 

Perhaps you should also put a container of cow dung in your medicine cabinet, as that seems to be reported as the latest "cure" for covid 19, in India, so perhaps it will work here??

 

And as another poster has said, why not throw everything you can at this virus........!!!!

[Caldera]

50 minutes ago, WashingUpagain said:

Some interesting debate. If cases rise in CM, I'll start taking it as a precaution. I guess it's the same debate as to wether vitamins work or not...they're cheap, so if ineffective ...no harm done.

 

It's less harmful than bleach, I'll give you that.

[xylophone]

 I did not compare ivermectin with cow dung, just mentioned another supposed it cure for covid 19, currently being practised in India.

To see the amount of nonsense being posted on this thread is an eye-opener, and I really never thought that I would see such stuff.

 

The same old nonsense gets wheeled out, about "big Pharma" not wanting to cure diseases and so on, and that is an insult to the profession, this as my son is an infectious diseases doctor working out of London, and my ex-wife was a laboratory technician.

 

I'm all for research into curing diseases, and I support Partington in a post he made whereby he made it clear to one poster that there's a hell of a difference between a compound/molecule showing promise against a virus or parasite, when tested in a petri dish, and actually working in a human.
 

[partington]

The question is not whether ivermectin has been shown to have anti-viral  properties in a dish of cells -it has, and this is not seriously questioned..

 

The question is: can it be used as an antiviral drug to treat Covid-19 or other viral diseases in human beings?

 

For example, the question of its effectiveness against an actual disease is directly addressed in the abstract you cite about dengue  (not a published paper, but a report of a talk or poster given at a meeting, so not really evidence in scientific terms). As I'm sure you read, this actually says Ivermectin does NOT have any clinical effect on the course of the disease  :

 

"A once daily high dose of oral ivermectin treatment for three days was safe and accelerated clearance of NS1 antigenemia in dengue infection. However, we did not demonstrate the clinical efficacy of ivermectin at this dosage regimen. Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamics study of ivermectin may help to understand this finding."

quote from"Ivermectin for adult patients with dengue" https://www.escmid.org/escmid_publications/:/material/?mid=66397

 

The last sentence says that further  pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies may explain this lack of clinical effect .  This simply refers to studies determining whether enough of the drug gets  into the body and stays around long enough to be effective.

 

What is often not clear to people not involved in drug development is that showing the activity of a compound on cells in dishes is very, very far from showing an activity as an effective drug, and nearly all compounds discovered fail between these two stages.

 

With ivermectin, its antiviral effect on the SARS-Cov-2 virus requires doses in a dish that would be toxic if achieved in human blood, and therefore it is hard to see how it could be effective without being poisonous at the doses required.

 

It is also hard to see how it could be effective at the much lower doses given for antiparasitic activity, its common use, since blood concentrations achieved are not enough to halt the virus in a dish.

 

See this free article in Antiviral Research June 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

 

Again however a convincing properly conducted large scale clinical trial would settle this issue, and if ivermectin worked it would be adopted world wide. Where it is being used (e.g. India) it does not seem to be helping much so far.

[Scott]

A post and reply making unsubstantiated claims has been removed.  

 

[onthedarkside]

Various posts have been removed for being off-topic and offering unsubstantiated advice on drug use.

 

[xylophone]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:07 AM, partington said:

With ivermectin, its antiviral effect on the SARS-Cov-2 virus requires doses in a dish that would be toxic if achieved in human blood, and therefore it is hard to see how it could be effective without being poisonous at the doses required.

 

It is also hard to see how it could be effective at the much lower doses given for antiparasitic activity, its common use, since blood concentrations achieved are not enough to halt the virus in a dish.

Agree.

[doggie1955]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:07 AM, partington said:

The question is not whether ivermectin has been shown to have anti-viral  properties in a dish of cells -it has, and this is not seriously questioned..

 

The question is: can it be used as an antiviral drug to treat Covid-19 or other viral diseases in human beings?

 

For example, the question of its effectiveness against an actual disease is directly addressed in the abstract you cite about dengue  (not a published paper, but a report of a talk or poster given at a meeting, so not really evidence in scientific terms). As I'm sure you read, this actually says Ivermectin does NOT have any clinical effect on the course of the disease  :

 

"A once daily high dose of oral ivermectin treatment for three days was safe and accelerated clearance of NS1 antigenemia in dengue infection. However, we did not demonstrate the clinical efficacy of ivermectin at this dosage regimen. Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamics study of ivermectin may help to understand this finding."

quote from"Ivermectin for adult patients with dengue" https://www.escmid.org/escmid_publications/:/material/?mid=66397

 

The last sentence says that further  pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies may explain this lack of clinical effect .  This simply refers to studies determining whether enough of the drug gets  into the body and stays around long enough to be effective.

 

What is often not clear to people not involved in drug development is that showing the activity of a compound on cells in dishes is very, very far from showing an activity as an effective drug, and nearly all compounds discovered fail between these two stages.

 

With ivermectin, its antiviral effect on the SARS-Cov-2 virus requires doses in a dish that would be toxic if achieved in human blood, and therefore it is hard to see how it could be effective without being poisonous at the doses required.

 

It is also hard to see how it could be effective at the much lower doses given for antiparasitic activity, its common use, since blood concentrations achieved are not enough to halt the virus in a dish.

 

See this free article in Antiviral Research June 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

 

Again however a convincing properly conducted large scale clinical trial would settle this issue, and if ivermectin worked it would be adopted world wide. Where it is being used (e.g. India) it does not seem to be helping much so far.

Here is an update on Ivermectin... READ

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-03-05/covid-19-medincell-publishes-an-extensive-ivermectin-safety-expert-analysis-klwjmqvj

[mtls2005]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:55 PM, partington said:

Most people do not want other people to die!

 

Agreed.

 

But it is odd that the Ivermectineers seem to encourage others down their parasite-free rabbit-hole?

 

It's one thing to choose to dose yourself with whatever "medicine" you want. But why try to convince others? Probably to reinforce a decision that they know, deep down, is flawed. Not unlike cult members.

 

Finally, the depths to which other Ivermectineers go to rationalize the lack of scientific data is pretty amazing. It's all one big conspiracy.

 

Carry on, but leave enough for the animals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[partington]

8 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

Here is an update on Ivermectin... READ

https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-03-05/covid-19-medincell-publishes-an-extensive-ivermectin-safety-expert-analysis-klwjmqvj

This unfortunately is a non-peer reviewed paper commissioned  by a commercial company hoping to sell a sustained release  formulation of ivermectin to treat Covid-19,  but  who have done no clinical studies at all  to prove that ivermectin is effective in treating Covid-19.

 

They simply report that giving the doses already shown to be safe for anti-parasitic activity at single dose daily for a month is also safe.

 

Their report directly states the steady plasma concentration of ivermectin achieved by this month long regime is 30ng/ml = 0.034µm.

 

The problem is that this is 60 times lower than the dose shown to be necessary in dishes of cells to have anti-viral effects against SARS-CoV-2 ( 1750ng/ml or 2µM), so it does not address the basic problem already referred to here

 

Antiviral Research June 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

 

that the blood concentration achieved would not, on current understanding, be great enough have any significant anti-viral effect on SARS-CoV-2.

 

A correctly conducted and powered clinical trial proving that ivermectin is effective at treatment or prevention of Covid-19 is therefore crucially important.

Edited June 2, 2021 by partington

[The Hammer2021]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:06 AM, Danderman123 said:

Why is the FDA doing this?

 

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

 

Also:

 

The drug’s manufacturer, pharma giant MSD, also warned that its analysis of ivermectin identified “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against Covid-19 from pre-clinical studies”, “no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with Covid-19 disease” and “a concerning lack of safety data” in most studies.

 

 

Refer to MIMS article  above

[The Hammer2021]

A few weeks ago somebody submitted a graphic/chart about all the current treatments and their  efficacy. It included  ivermetcin and many others..But I have lost the article.  Does anyone remember  it?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/23/instagram-posts/fact-checking-claim-about-use-ivermectin-treat-cov/

 

• Some limited studies suggest that ivermectin can help treat COVID-19; others show no significant impact. Many of the studies had small sample sizes and other limitations. 

• Federal health and drug agencies say that more research is needed before making a definitive conclusion about ivermectin’s efficacy against COVID-19. 

• The FDA has not approved ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19.

The FDA says people should not use medication intended for animals.

 

"There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. That is wrong," the FDA said.